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jusplay4fun wrote:1) Cost, which are very expensive and can be prohibitive, especially for poor countries.
jusplay4fun wrote:2) Environmental impact (will lots of fish or marine life die?).
jusplay4fun wrote:3) Other ways, including better conservation of water already available, are better.
jusplay4fun wrote:4) And here is the "kicker" the one I did NOT research: will this idea reverse or even significantly impact rising sea levels?
jusplay4fun wrote:I think.. I doubt... I did not research... I did not investigate... I doubt...
2dimes wrote:1976.
2dimes wrote:The plan relies on vastly under calculating the amount of water a couple of inches of ocean would be. I recommend asking your mom to take you on a boat ride in one of the oceans.
NomadPatriot wrote:2dimes wrote:The plan relies on vastly under calculating the amount of water a couple of inches of ocean would be. I recommend asking your mom to take you on a boat ride in one of the oceans.
let's calculate then!
One acre-foot of water (the amount of water covering 1 acre to a depth of 1 foot) equals 326,000 gallons or 43,560 cubic feet of water, and weighs 2.7 million pounds. so 1 inch would be 326,000 / 12 = 27,166 gallons per 1 acre of water that is 1 inch deep
the pacific ocean is roughly 63,000,000 acres.
63,000,000 acres x 27,166 gallons per 1 inch of an acre of water = 1,711,458,000,000 gallons
so 1.7 trillion gallons of water per 1 inch of depth in the pacific ocean..
for perspective. .Lake Michigan holds 1,000,000,000,000,000 gallons , 1 Quadrillion gallons of water..
1,000,000,000,000,000 gallons ( 1 lake Michigan) divided 1,711,458,000,000 gallons ( 1 inch of Pacific ocean water ) = 584
so lake Michigan would hold 584 inches of the pacific ocean..
584 divided by 12 = 48 feet..
if you created a 1 lake Michigan inland anywhere on the planet.. & filled it with cleaned desalinated distilled ocean water.. ocean levels in the pacific would drop 48 feet..
isn't math fun!!!!
( that took 8 minutes to look up the figures calculate & type it out….)
However, there are more affordable and energy-free alternatives to desal, such as conservation, said Frances Spivy-Weber, the board’s vice chairwoman. Desalination, Spivy-Weber said, should be considered an alternative when other options have been exhausted.
“If you’re a water agency or a community that is considering these things, you would want to make sure your agency looks at cost-effectiveness and reliability before they take that leap, before they go straight to desal.”
The crews are building what boosters say represents California’s best hope for a drought-proof water supply: the largest ocean desalination plant in the Western Hemisphere. The $1 billion project will provide 50 million gallons of drinking water a day for San Diego County when it opens in 2016.
Since the 1970s, California has dipped its toe into ocean desalination –talking, planning, debating. But for a variety of reasons — mainly cost and environmental concerns– the state has never taken the plunge.
Until now.
…
Will California — like Israel, Saudi Arabia and other arid coastal regions of the world — finally turn to the ocean to quench its thirst? Or will the project finally prove that drinking Pacific seawater is too pricey, too environmentally harmful and too impractical for the Golden State?
….
To critics, the plant is a costly mistake that will use huge amounts of energy and harm fish and other marine life when it sucks in seawater using the intakes from the aging Encina Power Plant next door.
“This is going to be the pig that will try for years to find the right shade of lipstick,” said Marco Gonzalez, an Encinitas attorney who sued on behalf of the Surfrider Foundation and other environmental groups to try to stop construction. “This project will show that the water is just too expensive.”
For the plant to be a success and copied in other parts of the state, Poseidon will have to deliver high-quality drinking water at the price promised — and not cause unexpected impacts to the environment such as fish die-offs.
“It’s a test case,” said Ron Davis, executive director of Cal Desal, an industry advocacy group. “We like to tease them: Only the entire future of desal is riding on this project. No pressure.”
High cost
Almost every discussion about desalination begins and ends with cost.
Desalinated water typically costs about $2,000 an acre foot — roughly the amount of water a family of five uses in a year. The cost is about double that of water obtained from building a new reservoir or recycling wastewater, according to a 2013 study from the state Department of Water Resources.
And its price tag is at least four times the cost of obtaining “new water” from conservation methods — such as paying farmers to install drip irrigation, or providing rebates for homeowners to rip out lawns or buy water-efficient toilets.
“We look out and see a vast ocean. It seems obvious,” said Heather Cooley, water director for the Pacific Institute, a nonprofit research organization in Oakland. “But it’s cost prohibitive for most places in California.”
jusplay4fun wrote:[url]https://www.mercurynews.com
NomadPatriot wrote:jusplay4fun wrote:[url]https://www.mercurynews.com
sorry.. never heard of The Mercury News... I am sure they have Participation Trophies in Journalism in locked display cases..
jimboston wrote:NomadPatriot wrote:2dimes wrote:The plan relies on vastly under calculating the amount of water a couple of inches of ocean would be. I recommend asking your mom to take you on a boat ride in one of the oceans.
let's calculate then!
One acre-foot of water (the amount of water covering 1 acre to a depth of 1 foot) equals 326,000 gallons or 43,560 cubic feet of water, and weighs 2.7 million pounds. so 1 inch would be 326,000 / 12 = 27,166 gallons per 1 acre of water that is 1 inch deep
the pacific ocean is roughly 63,000,000 acres.
63,000,000 acres x 27,166 gallons per 1 inch of an acre of water = 1,711,458,000,000 gallons
so 1.7 trillion gallons of water per 1 inch of depth in the pacific ocean..
for perspective. .Lake Michigan holds 1,000,000,000,000,000 gallons , 1 Quadrillion gallons of water..
1,000,000,000,000,000 gallons ( 1 lake Michigan) divided 1,711,458,000,000 gallons ( 1 inch of Pacific ocean water ) = 584
so lake Michigan would hold 584 inches of the pacific ocean..
584 divided by 12 = 48 feet..
if you created a 1 lake Michigan inland anywhere on the planet.. & filled it with cleaned desalinated distilled ocean water.. ocean levels in the pacific would drop 48 feet..
isn't math fun!!!!
( that took 8 minutes to look up the figures calculate & type it out….)
How do you propose to move this water from the ocean to this inland sea/lake you plan to dig?
Just to give you an idea, the reservoirs for the Metro Boston region supply this area with 200,000,000 gallons of water per day.
This water system wasn’t built overnight but grew over decades.
Now that it’s fully built, it’s moving 200,000,000 gallons a day.
At that rate, it would take 5,000,000 days to move the amount of water you suggest.
That excludes any loss due to evaporation or other loss.
So assuming we could build the pipes to move the water in a few years... it would then take about 13,700 years to move the amount of water you suggest.
That’s assuming nothing breaks over that time.
Now you can build a bigger system, I mean Boston isn’t the biggest city... but we’re talking the Metro Boston region, so it’s a pretty populous area.
You could also move less water.
Maybe we can get the project down to a couple thousand years?
jusplay4fun wrote:Then, as suspected, you are NOT well-informed. Go investigate before making such ludicrous statement, NoMADP.NomadPatriot wrote:jusplay4fun wrote:[url]https://www.mercurynews.com
sorry.. never heard of The Mercury News... I am sure they have Participation Trophies in Journalism in locked display cases..
NomadPatriot wrote:let's calculate then!
One acre-foot of water (the amount of water covering 1 acre to a depth of 1 foot) equals 326,000 gallons or 43,560 cubic feet of water, and weighs 2.7 million pounds. so 1 inch would be 326,000 / 12 = 27,166 gallons per 1 acre of water that is 1 inch deep
the pacific ocean is roughly 63,000,000 acres.
63,000,000 acres x 27,166 gallons per 1 inch of an acre of water = 1,711,458,000,000 gallons
so 1.7 trillion gallons of water per 1 inch of depth in the pacific ocean..
for perspective. .Lake Michigan holds 1,000,000,000,000,000 gallons , 1 Quadrillion gallons of water..
1,000,000,000,000,000 gallons ( 1 lake Michigan) divided 1,711,458,000,000 gallons ( 1 inch of Pacific ocean water ) = 584
so lake Michigan would hold 584 inches of the pacific ocean..
if you created a 1 lake Michigan inland anywhere on the planet.. & filled it with cleaned desalinated distilled ocean water.. ocean levels in the pacific would drop 48 feet..
NomadPatriot wrote:
The World's Largest Water Pump Moves 15 Olympic-Sized Swimming Pools Every Minute (150,000 gallons per second)
https://gizmodo.com/the-worlds-largest-water-pump-moves-15-olympic-sized-sw-5800072
that's nearly 13 billion gallons a day.
Metsfanmax wrote:NomadPatriot wrote:let's calculate then!
One acre-foot of water (the amount of water covering 1 acre to a depth of 1 foot) equals 326,000 gallons or 43,560 cubic feet of water, and weighs 2.7 million pounds. so 1 inch would be 326,000 / 12 = 27,166 gallons per 1 acre of water that is 1 inch deep
the pacific ocean is roughly 63,000,000 acres.
The Pacific Ocean is quite a lot larger than that: 162 million square kilometers, or 40 billion acres in area.
(There are 2.59 square kilometers to a square mile, which would be pretty close to your 63 million number, is that what you meant?)63,000,000 acres x 27,166 gallons per 1 inch of an acre of water = 1,711,458,000,000 gallons
so 1.7 trillion gallons of water per 1 inch of depth in the pacific ocean..
So, your estimate here needs to increase by a factor of about 635.for perspective. .Lake Michigan holds 1,000,000,000,000,000 gallons , 1 Quadrillion gallons of water..
1,000,000,000,000,000 gallons ( 1 lake Michigan) divided 1,711,458,000,000 gallons ( 1 inch of Pacific ocean water ) = 584
so lake Michigan would hold 584 inches of the pacific ocean..
So, when you do this calculation, you would actually get 584 / 635 = 0.9 feet.
But actually this calculation based on areas is not really correct. Neither the Pacific Ocean nor Lake Michigan have a uniform depth, so it is better to think about this in terms of volumes -- how many Lake Michigan's worth of water in total does the Pacific Ocean have? The volumetric ratio of the Pacific Ocean to Lake Michigan is 134k. That means we should really divide by the average depth of the Pacific Ocean (a little over 13000 feet), for an average height decrease of about 0.1 feet, or about an inch (assuming the water removed was uniformly distributed across the ocean).if you created a 1 lake Michigan inland anywhere on the planet.. & filled it with cleaned desalinated distilled ocean water.. ocean levels in the pacific would drop 48 feet..
Since the ocean is fully connected, you can't just remove water from the Pacific without having the displacement compensated by the rest of the ocean. Since the volume of the ocean in total is about twice the volume of the Pacific, the actual sea level decrease would be only about half an inch.
But what's special about Lake Michigan in particular? Does that amount of water correspond to what we actually need to consume?
I don't know exactly how much water Americans use on average when all direct and indirect uses are accounted for, but let's take this estimate of 300 gallons per family per day, or something like 100 gallons per person. For 325 million people in the US, that corresponds to 0.12 cubic kilometers of water consumed per day, or 45 cubic kilometers per year. The volume of Lake Michigan is about 5000 cubic kilometers (I used that number above), so it would take about 100 years for the US to consume a Lake Michigan's worth of water.
So if in fact we did take an inch off sea level and desalinate it, we'd have enough water for 200 years alone, and that's ignoring all of the other existing freshwater sources, so presumably it's more than enough. Thus it's not practical to assume that water desalination is a solution to rising sea levels (which are projected to rise by several feet this century). Furthermore, water doesn't just disappear when we consume it. Eventually a big chunk of the water will make it way back to the ocean after we've consumed it, due to evaporation and runoff.
NomadPatriot wrote:yeah I goofed my calculation on the pacific ocean size. i will give ya that...
the point of this forum topic is to create a box.. you can think inside the box.. you can think outside the box.. you can criticize me for creating the box in the 1st place. .but in the end. the box engages ideas.. ideas create solutions..
the point is to figure out a solution..
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