Conquer Club

Isaiah wrote:Remember this and stand firm,
recall it to mind, you transgressors,
remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.

Dukasaur wrote:Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/dangers-rising-benzo-prescriptions-raise-alarms-next-drug-crisis-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Symmetry wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/dangers-rising-benzo-prescriptions-raise-alarms-next-drug-crisis-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Valium (Diazepam) and Xanax (Alprazolam) are different drugs, Duk. You've made a mistake here, and I genuinely hope you will correct it.

At least in the UK, diazepam is a controlled way to wean heroin addicts off the drug. Alprazolam isn't available on the NHS, as far as I can tell from a quick search, but it seems to be a short term anti-anxiety drug.

Dukasaur wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/dangers-rising-benzo-prescriptions-raise-alarms-next-drug-crisis-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Valium (Diazepam) and Xanax (Alprazolam) are different drugs, Duk. You've made a mistake here, and I genuinely hope you will correct it.

At least in the UK, diazepam is a controlled way to wean heroin addicts off the drug. Alprazolam isn't available on the NHS, as far as I can tell from a quick search, but it seems to be a short term anti-anxiety drug.

No, it's not a mistake. They differ in trivial ways but have essentially the same effects.

KoolBak wrote:Agree with your rant completely. The pharm trade is outta control.

That being said, it's obviously the weak, addiction prone PEOPLE that are the main problem.

With all the crap I've dealt with (chopped off fingers, ruptured discs, cut finger tendons, perpetually fucked up back, 2 hernias, and the list goes on) I have been prescribed a literal shit ton of oxy / hydro codone, Probly the MOST abused / addicted drug?

I HATE that shit when I HAVE to take it. It makes me mean as hell and makes you uber constipated. I ALWAYS have a bunch left over.

Now, if my neck is killing me and can't sleep, 2 of those help a lot. So 30 last me a couple years....lol

Just don't understand how people can eat 30 of them a day consistently...guess I don't understand throwing your life away on heroine either. Anyway....what??

Symmetry wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/dangers-rising-benzo-prescriptions-raise-alarms-next-drug-crisis-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Valium (Diazepam) and Xanax (Alprazolam) are different drugs, Duk. You've made a mistake here, and I genuinely hope you will correct it.

At least in the UK, diazepam is a controlled way to wean heroin addicts off the drug. Alprazolam isn't available on the NHS, as far as I can tell from a quick search, but it seems to be a short term anti-anxiety drug.

No, it's not a mistake. They differ in trivial ways but have essentially the same effects.

Look, what you said was not true. Valium (diazepam) has not been "rebranded" as Xanax (alprazolam). You're simply wrong here. Many drugs share similar effects, but that doesn't make them the same drug. Paracetamol and ibuprofen are both pain killers, but they are not the same, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam

The differences are not trivial- they are fundamentally different in chemical composition, in their medical applications, under law, and in their effects on the human body. None of those differences are trivial.

There's no reason to be stubborn about this- you were wrong, admit it, and move on.

Benzodiazepines generally share the same pharmacological properties,

Dukasaur wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/dangers-rising-benzo-prescriptions-raise-alarms-next-drug-crisis-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Valium (Diazepam) and Xanax (Alprazolam) are different drugs, Duk. You've made a mistake here, and I genuinely hope you will correct it.

At least in the UK, diazepam is a controlled way to wean heroin addicts off the drug. Alprazolam isn't available on the NHS, as far as I can tell from a quick search, but it seems to be a short term anti-anxiety drug.

No, it's not a mistake. They differ in trivial ways but have essentially the same effects.

Look, what you said was not true. Valium (diazepam) has not been "rebranded" as Xanax (alprazolam). You're simply wrong here. Many drugs share similar effects, but that doesn't make them the same drug. Paracetamol and ibuprofen are both pain killers, but they are not the same, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam

The differences are not trivial- they are fundamentally different in chemical composition, in their medical applications, under law, and in their effects on the human body. None of those differences are trivial.

There's no reason to be stubborn about this- you were wrong, admit it, and move on.

I know you can think you can endlessly twist things with your pedantic horseshit, but the bottom line is the differences between the drugs are trivial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_benzodiazepines

Benzodiazepines generally share the same pharmacological properties,

(emphasis added)

nietzsche wrote:i'll buy that oregon land for 10 grand.

throw in a support belt factory and i'll give you 11.

KB, you seem in a good humor most of the time, i don´t see how could you be in pain. Believe me, pain affects your humor. unless you're self-medicating with that Canadian thing?

mookiemcgee wrote:@sophia, are you programed to have addictive (human-like) tendencies ? Would you consider getting addicted to my c-ck?

@Duku/Sym, as someone who has taken both Valium and Xanax I can tell you that in my experience the drugs had the exact same effect on me. The valium seemed to keep me high longer but I was also doing the Valium earlier in life when perhaps my tolerance was lower. They are very similar drugs... to Duku's original point; I think it's fair to say their 'abuse-ability/addictivity index' score would be about the same (or xanax would be worse).

To Symm's point; things that are not the same... are different (even if they are very very similar). Yay you both win!

Dukasaur wrote:Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

KoolBak wrote:

nietzsche wrote:i'll buy that oregon land for 10 grand.

throw in a support belt factory and i'll give you 11.

KB, you seem in a good humor most of the time, i don´t see how could you be in pain. Believe me, pain affects your humor. unless you're self-medicating with that Canadian thing?

One just deals brother....can't imagine wasting life being unhappy....and whisky DOES help ;o)

Symmetry wrote:

mookiemcgee wrote:@sophia, are you programed to have addictive (human-like) tendencies ? Would you consider getting addicted to my c-ck?

@Duku/Sym, as someone who has taken both Valium and Xanax I can tell you that in my experience the drugs had the exact same effect on me. The valium seemed to keep me high longer but I was also doing the Valium earlier in life when perhaps my tolerance was lower. They are very similar drugs... to Duku's original point; I think it's fair to say their 'abuse-ability/addictivity index' score would be about the same (or xanax would be worse).

To Symm's point; things that are not the same... are different (even if they are very very similar). Yay you both win!

Thanks for that, but here's where I'm coming from- identifying one drug as another is dangerous. I work with people who are recovering addicts. Diazepam is a drug that helps people get away from addiction. It's not a pleasant thing, of course, but it does a lot of good. Alprazolam is a different drug. It may share some similarities, but even a small difference in chemical composition can radically alter its effects- oxygen is breathable, carbon monoxide is not, to take a simple example.

Saying that Diazepam and Alprazolam are the same just because they share some similar effects is simply wrong, and dangerously misleading.

Bear in mind that all I asked Duk to do here is to admit that he made a mistake and correct it.

Dukasaur wrote:Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Duk- just fix your mistake and apologise. You know you were wrong.

mookiemcgee wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

mookiemcgee wrote:@sophia, are you programed to have addictive (human-like) tendencies ? Would you consider getting addicted to my c-ck?

@Duku/Sym, as someone who has taken both Valium and Xanax I can tell you that in my experience the drugs had the exact same effect on me. The valium seemed to keep me high longer but I was also doing the Valium earlier in life when perhaps my tolerance was lower. They are very similar drugs... to Duku's original point; I think it's fair to say their 'abuse-ability/addictivity index' score would be about the same (or xanax would be worse).

To Symm's point; things that are not the same... are different (even if they are very very similar). Yay you both win!

Thanks for that, but here's where I'm coming from- identifying one drug as another is dangerous. I work with people who are recovering addicts. Diazepam is a drug that helps people get away from addiction. It's not a pleasant thing, of course, but it does a lot of good. Alprazolam is a different drug. It may share some similarities, but even a small difference in chemical composition can radically alter its effects- oxygen is breathable, carbon monoxide is not, to take a simple example.

Saying that Diazepam and Alprazolam are the same just because they share some similar effects is simply wrong, and dangerously misleading.

Bear in mind that all I asked Duk to do here is to admit that he made a mistake and correct it.

Dukasaur wrote:Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Duk- just fix your mistake and apologise. You know you were wrong.

You seem really fixated on the idea the the addictive properties of Alprazolam are different than those of Diazepam. This is after all the very clear point of Duku's original post which you just quoted, that both substance are Benzo's and very addictive. Do you have any evidence that there is a difference in this element of the way these two drugs present? I am not aware of any difference at all from that perspective, and can site a great many studies and websites that show they are both very addictive. If anything Xanax is more addictive, which really just reinforces Duku's point.

Both drugs are rapidly absorbed and enter the brain tissue rapidly, leading to reinforcement. Alprazolam has a shorter half-life, which may lead to more withdrawal symptoms than diazepam. In experimental conditions, they are among the most reinforcing benzodiazepines. Each causes a withdrawal syndrome, but alprazolam withdrawal may be more severe and may occur after a shorter period of use. Alprazolam deserves special caution because of its relative newness, great popularity, reinforcing capabilities, relatively severe withdrawal syndrome, and reports of addiction and negative consequences of use.


Sym- just fix your mistake and apologise. You know you were wrong. Or just keep trolling cus that's all your really here for init.

BTW, where you are from they don't require a doctor to prescribe these drugs? And the laws don't require docotrs or pharmacist to explain them? Then yeah, given that hypothetical I guess Duku's post could be seen as dangerous. But where I live you can't just read Duku's post and go buy some and try it, so really there is nothing dangerous about what he wrote

Dukasaur wrote:LOL @ Sym. Posts an article backing up what I said. Continues to tell me I'm wrong.