Conquer Club

I've been reading about the Luddites, and have a sinking suspiscion that The Industrial Revolution was the most revolting human creation of all time. Western capitalism and the machine have probably destroyed more humans than all the wars of the world combined. Plus it has made us crazy. Isn't it funny how a hunter/gatherer works about 8 to 12 hours a week, and we now do that in a day. I'm not saying that it's all bad, but the way humans have implemented industrialization is sick.

Any thoughts?

the atom bomb or the gun i would say

0ojakeo0 wrote:the atom bomb or the gun i would say

Yeah, but they were just weapons. The atom bomb was only used twice, and the gun has nothing on the domestication of the horse for pure carnage. Check out the Mongol Horde. They didn't have guns and they have to rank in the top 3 jacked up invasion forces of all time.

When we created the saw or axe to cut/hack down trees.

Religion.

Also takes the title of the most constructive as well...

Fire. It's one of the oldest inventions and has therefore had more time to wreak much more damage than newer ones such as guns and the industrial revolution.

That or the invention of the first tools themselves, which were necessary for all future tools to be built, including spears, machines and guns.

mushin wrote:I've been reading about the Luddites, and have a sinking suspiscion that The Industrial Revolution was the most revolting human creation of all time. Western capitalism and the machine have probably destroyed more humans than all the wars of the world combined. Plus it has made us crazy. Isn't it funny how a hunter/gatherer works about 8 to 12 hours a week, and we now do that in a day. I'm not saying that it's all bad, but the way humans have implemented industrialization is sick.

Any thoughts?

The Industrial Revolution was an nearly-all-encompassing historical force that lasted for centuries. Practically every aspect of our modern lives is affected by or even based on the developments of the time period. If one could magically erase the Industrial Revolution, we would return to a pre-machine age that was very far from the paradise you perhaps imagine it to be.

You reckon that "Western capitalism and the machine have probably destroyed more humans than all the wars of the world combined", but you are wildly mistaken. European life expectancy just before the advent of the Industrial revolution was around 30 years! The improvements in sanitation, health care, nutrition, domestic environments, and many other aspects of life have moved European life expectancy to 72 years (in 1998). Today no country in the world, even among those horribly afflicted by war and diseases which our technology has not yet cured, has a life expectancy as low as Europe's in the Middle Ages. The massive increases in worldwide population in the past 300 years are nearly entirely attributable to the developments of the Industrial Revolution.

The machine has made life longer and healthier. It has also expanded the possibility of leisure to more than just the wealthiest elite, and here we are enjoying that fact... playing games... on our computers. Delightful!

One of the most destructive yet neccessary creation by man was currency. I cant recall how many disagreements have been started with the hidden goal of monetary gain. Every war that has been fought has both sides have a public agenda, along with a private one.

Such as the war in Iraq, we say we are going to stop a dictatorship, but alongisde that, winning the war equals lower prices of resources every country needs to survive in the modern era.

0ojakeo0 wrote:the atom bomb or the gun i would say

Wrong type of creation bud

my son.

the atom bomb is essentially (spelling) the only thing that is stopping another world war

gethine wrote:my son.

Well thats just a gimmie

Politics.

btownmeggy wrote:

mushin wrote:I've been reading about the Luddites, and have a sinking suspiscion that The Industrial Revolution was the most revolting human creation of all time. Western capitalism and the machine have probably destroyed more humans than all the wars of the world combined. Plus it has made us crazy. Isn't it funny how a hunter/gatherer works about 8 to 12 hours a week, and we now do that in a day. I'm not saying that it's all bad, but the way humans have implemented industrialization is sick.

Any thoughts?

The Industrial Revolution was an nearly-all-encompassing historical force that lasted for centuries. Practically every aspect of our modern lives is affected by or even based on the developments of the time period. If one could magically erase the Industrial Revolution, we would return to a pre-machine age that was very far from the paradise you perhaps imagine it to be.

You reckon that "Western capitalism and the machine have probably destroyed more humans than all the wars of the world combined", but you are wildly mistaken. European life expectancy just before the advent of the Industrial revolution was around 30 years! The improvements in sanitation, health care, nutrition, domestic environments, and many other aspects of life have moved European life expectancy to 72 years (in 1998). Today no country in the world, even among those horribly afflicted by war and diseases which our technology has not yet cured, has a life expectancy as low as Europe's in the Middle Ages. The massive increases in worldwide population in the past 300 years are nearly entirely attributable to the developments of the Industrial Revolution.

The machine has made life longer and healthier. It has also expanded the possibility of leisure to more than just the wealthiest elite, and here we are enjoying that fact... playing games... on our computers. Delightful!

yes but i beleive he asked what was the most destructive it has helped us in many ways but still has killed more people than wars. and you are only looking at the upside of technology. what about the fact that drugs are easier than ever to obtain and gang wars are caused by guns that we are able to create due to the revalution not to mention countless others...

Guiscard wrote:Religion.

Also takes the title of the most constructive as well...

The sole roots of every worldly dilema

you didn't specify at the start of this thread what you meant exactly. If your talking about the human invention that has caused the most destruction, or if your talking about the human invention with the most power for destruction or destructive potential. And you are pretty much being hypocritical in making this thread because you life revolves around effects of the industrial revolution, almost everyones does.

btownmeggy wrote:

mushin wrote:I've been reading about the Luddites, and have a sinking suspiscion that The Industrial Revolution was the most revolting human creation of all time. Western capitalism and the machine have probably destroyed more humans than all the wars of the world combined. Plus it has made us crazy. Isn't it funny how a hunter/gatherer works about 8 to 12 hours a week, and we now do that in a day. I'm not saying that it's all bad, but the way humans have implemented industrialization is sick.

Any thoughts?

The Industrial Revolution was an nearly-all-encompassing historical force that lasted for centuries. Practically every aspect of our modern lives is affected by or even based on the developments of the time period. If one could magically erase the Industrial Revolution, we would return to a pre-machine age that was very far from the paradise you perhaps imagine it to be.

You reckon that "Western capitalism and the machine have probably destroyed more humans than all the wars of the world combined", but you are wildly mistaken. European life expectancy just before the advent of the Industrial revolution was around 30 years! The improvements in sanitation, health care, nutrition, domestic environments, and many other aspects of life have moved European life expectancy to 72 years (in 1998). Today no country in the world, even among those horribly afflicted by war and diseases which our technology has not yet cured, has a life expectancy as low as Europe's in the Middle Ages. The massive increases in worldwide population in the past 300 years are nearly entirely attributable to the developments of the Industrial Revolution.

The machine has made life longer and healthier. It has also expanded the possibility of leisure to more than just the wealthiest elite, and here we are enjoying that fact... playing games... on our computers. Delightful!

Oh, I have no problem with industrialization, and I am not a believer in the "utopia of the past", but the manner in which it came about is horrendous.

The price we have paid, and that developing countries continue to pay, is unbelieveable. The industrial revolution is still going on. The war, disease and famine of industrializing nations is not a new phenomenon, it was all done already in Europe. The French Revolution, the plight of the poor Brits, hell, how about the accounts of life in the meat packing industry in America from the Jungle. People in industrialized nations now have better lives, but how bout the other 80% of the world population. There has to have been a better way. We are slaves to the machines in our lives. That's absolute crap.

Also, the statement that life expectancy in most places was 30's is a gross oversimplification. It depends on where you were. Also life expectancy was skewed by infant mortality rates, which are still around today outside of the industrialized world. But people in pre-industrialized England regurlarly lived into their 60's. In fact, if you want to get into the "realities" of this great world, lets look at the life expectancy of humans today. Not just in Industrialized nations.

The fact of the matter is that more people have lived in a total state of poverty and deprivation since the industrial revolution than ever before. The percentages are crazy. While Europe was in the Dark Ages, the Islamic world was having a golden period, Africa was experiencing a time of prosperity. The rest of the world was doing okay. The percentage of humans living in total squalor was nowhere near what it is today.

There is no longer such a thing a self-sustaining community. You are either part of the global economy, or you are dead. If you don't believe me, go out and say hello to your local nomads. Oh, they don't exist anymore except in places that are economically non-viable.

And if you don't think that there are countries today that have a life expectancy of Midieval Europe (33), while 34 countries, as of January 2006, had life expectancies of 34 years or less.

I'm not saying to "kill the machines", I'm saying, "Couldn't there have been a better way?"

mushin wrote:People in industrialized nations now have better lives, but how bout the other 80% of the world population.

My argument is that industrialization has lengthened lives worldwide, which is statistically and historically confirmed. You've thrown out some strange numbers in this most recent post, but I hope to rectify your confusion.

mushin wrote:There has to have been a better way. We are slaves to the machines in our lives. That's absolute crap.

I also contend that industrialization has increased leisure time and thus, in many ways, quality of life, however this is in many ways a question of perspective. I don't feel like I'm a slave to machines, but I believe that perhaps you do. I'm interested in knowing how you feel that you are a slave to machines.

mushin wrote:Also, the statement that life expectancy in most places was 30's is a gross oversimplification. It depends on where you were. Also life expectancy was skewed by infant mortality rates, which are still around today outside of the industrialized world. But people in pre-industrialized England regurlarly lived into their 60's. In fact, if you want to get into the "realities" of this great world, lets look at the life expectancy of humans today. Not just in Industrialized nations.

Life expectancy worldwide has increased in the past 300 years. I mentioned European life expectancy in the middle ages because Europe is where the phenomenon known as the Industrial Revolution began. By looking at Europe before and after, we get the clearest picture of its immediate effects. Even today, though, where you compare societies (even within the same countries) that are "industrialized" versus those that aren't (mostly native groups who live nearly entirely outside of the grasp of machines), you see extreme differences in life expectancy. Today non-industrialized native groups have life expectancies of around 30 years. As to infant mortality rates, they don't exist only outside the industrialized world. Infants die everywhere and always have. The ability of a society to keep infants alive is largely based on issues that I've already mentioned: sanitation, availability and effectiveness of health care, living conditions, etc. All of these factors have been amplified by technological progress.

mushin wrote:The fact of the matter is that more people have lived in a total state of poverty and deprivation since the industrial revolution than ever before. The percentages are crazy. While Europe was in the Dark Ages, the Islamic world was having a golden period, Africa was experiencing a time of prosperity. The rest of the world was doing okay. The percentage of humans living in total squalor was nowhere near what it is today.

Now, I agree that a larger number of people live in "squalor" today than ever before---because the population of the Earth today is much, much larger than ever before. But percentage-wise?? If you can provide me with a reputable link or evidence, I might be convinced, but it seems contrary to logic and to historical realities.

mushin wrote:And if you don't think that there are countries today that have a life expectancy of Midieval Europe (33), while 34 countries, as of January 2006, had life expectancies of 34 years or less.

Tsk, tsk, tsk, no, my friend. According to the World Factbook, one of the most respected sources of demographic information, in 2007 only one country had a life expectancy under 34 years: Swaziland, a country embroiled in civil struggle for decades and with the highest rate of HIV/AIDS in the world. Nearly every country in the world with life expectancies under 50 years is severely afflicted with HIV/AIDS, a disease not invented by machines or technological progress, but which modern invention has fought against and, I believe, will one day win the battle against.

The word "unhappy."

When you define depression, suddenly everyone is depressed.

chewyman wrote:Fire. It's one of the oldest inventions and has therefore had more time to wreak much more damage than newer ones such as guns and the industrial revolution.

Fire's not really a human creation, more of a discovery. Fire existed before humans did.

I would have to say the creation of more humans. Not just with what they have done to themselves through the years with war and such, but overpopulation has to be a factor at one point, and it already is in places like India and China.

The club.

Pretty much that's it. We've spent thousands of years and countless man-hours (with a nod to feminists, because this is pretty much a guy thing. Ya'll are smarter than that.) developing, studying, spying on each other, training people how to use, and using clubs on each other.

Examples:

The sword (a sharp club)
The spear (a sharp club you can throw!)
The gun (a variation of the sling "a club that throws stuff")
The cannon (a bigger club that throws stuff)
The ICBM (A club that can throw itself a cross an ocean!)

and let's not forget:

The country club (a club to keep the little guy in line, because he might
be able to join one day)

Political parties (clubs to get control of clubs)

Sorry for hijacking

The most destructive thing ever created by the hand of man, was undoubtedly the television, or as I like to call it The ZOG box.

The total destruction of human mind, and we haven't seen the worst of it by a long shot yet.

Yes,

Television, an evil monster that sucks intelligence out through the eyes.

mushin wrote:The French Revolution

how was the french revolution caused by the industrial revolution? it happned before it for a start and it was caused by the french aristocracy holding old values to gain money from the poor. At no point were machines involved.

The same goes for population increce. Population was a cause of the revolution, not the other way round

Definatly Frankenstein's monster.
(The fact that I am a Mad Scientist did nothing to provoke this opinion)