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Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Thu Apr 13, 2017 9:05 pmby Symmetry
Disturbing news from Russia. Already a persecuted minority that authorities are unwilling to protect, the Russian republic of Chechnya has instigatied a purge of homosexuals involving detainment, torture, and executions.
A brutal campaign against gay men is sweeping Chechnya, with reports of abduction-style detention, enforced disappearances, torture and deaths. Chechnya is an administrative unit of the Russian federation, and Russia’s authorities are duty bound to uphold the rights and fundamental freedoms enshrined in its domestic legislation and international human rights obligations. The obligations it owes to residents and victims in Chechnya, and its failure to meet them, are evident to all in the region.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/apr/13/gay-men-targeted-chechnya-russia
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:17 amby mrswdk
Don't see anything that says the Russian government is complicit in this.
1/10
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 8:49 amby Dukasaur
mrswdk wrote:Don't see anything that says the Russian government is complicit in this.
1/10
You're not going to pretend the Chechen regional government is autonomous in anything but name, are you?
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:02 amby Bernie Sanders
Dukasaur wrote:mrswdk wrote:Don't see anything that says the Russian government is complicit in this.
1/10
You're not going to pretend the Chechen regional government is autonomous in anything but name, are you?
Guess you won't see mrswdk being a sex tourist in Chechnya anytime soon.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 9:42 amby KoolBak
Yeah...he picked a bad day to be a teabagger
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:59 pmby mrswdk
Dukasaur wrote:mrswdk wrote:Don't see anything that says the Russian government is complicit in this.
1/10
You're not going to pretend the Chechen regional government is autonomous in anything but name, are you?
So you're saying the Russian government has decided to start rounding up gay men in Chechnya, even though it doesn't do that in Russia?
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 2:02 pmby mrswdk
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:13 pmby Dukasaur
mrswdk wrote:Dukasaur wrote:mrswdk wrote:Don't see anything that says the Russian government is complicit in this.
1/10
You're not going to pretend the Chechen regional government is autonomous in anything but name, are you?
So you're saying the Russian government has decided to start rounding up gay men in Chechnya, even though it doesn't do that in Russia?
No, I'm saying the Chechen regional government has decided to do this, but the Russian government, who could order them to stop, has chosen to let them proceed. Putin no doubt thinks its a great initiative. It wouldn't play well with the urban intelligentsia in Moscow and Petrograd, but out there in the provinces, ah, let them clean house.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 6:40 pmby mrswdk
So to sum up, yes it is the Chechnyan government doing this.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Fri Apr 14, 2017 7:08 pmby Symmetry
mrswdk wrote:So to sum up, yes it is the Chechnyan government doing this.
The Russian Republic of Chechnya is indeed doing this.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/apr/14/journalists-fear-reprisals-for-exposing-purge-of-gay-men-in-chechnyaThe Russian newspaper that broke the news of the mass detention and torture of gay men in Chechnya has said it fears for the safety of its journalists after a televised gathering of religious and social leaders in Grozny promised “reprisals” against them.
Novaya Gazeta, one of the few remaining independent news sources in Russia, first reported on the anti-gay violence in Chechnya several weeks ago. Authorities have denied they are rounding up gay men, and dismissed the reports as lies.
The Guardian published testimony on Thursday from two Chechen men who had been caught up in the anti-gay operation, which backed up Novaya’s claims of a broad crackdown on gay men in the region. One of the men said he had been held in an informal prison for more than a week with other gay men, and subjected to repeated beatings and torture using electric shocks.
Sickening.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:47 amby BoganGod
mrswdk wrote:So to sum up, yes it is the Chechnyan government doing this.
Yes, but since Russia allows the chechnyans to be independent, even though Russia could crush them. It is of course Russia's fault. A bit like saying if Nepalese f*ck sheep it is India's fault. India is more powerful than Nepal....... Hell we could even take the DSOIV/Dukysnore/FakeBurn logic even further, anything Britain does that is wrong is the fault of the USA(who could squash the UK like a wingless mosquito with broken legs.)
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Sat Apr 15, 2017 4:56 pmby Dukasaur
BoganGod wrote:mrswdk wrote:So to sum up, yes it is the Chechnyan government doing this.
Yes, but since Russia allows the chechnyans to be independent, even though Russia could crush them. It is of course Russia's fault. A bit like saying if Nepalese f*ck sheep it is India's fault. India is more powerful than Nepal....... Hell we could even take the DSOIV/Dukysnore/FakeBurn logic even further, anything Britain does that is wrong is the fault of the USA(who could squash the UK like a wingless mosquito with broken legs.)
Your analogy would be incorrect. Britain may kiss ass to the US and follow their lead, but it is recognized by them as an independent state. Chechnia is not an independent state. It may have "autonomous" in its title, but it is a wholly-owned subsidiary.
A more accurate analogy would be if MacDonalds Restaurants of the U.K. started poisoning customers. Would MacDonald's head office in Illinois have anything to say about it, or would they turn a blind eye and pretend they didn't notice?
Edit: just checked and it turns out that Chechnya doesn't even have the word "Autonomous" in its official title any more. It's now completely recognised as a federal subject of Russia. So even the pretense of autonomy is gone now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 7:49 amby mrswdk
So when a US state passes a law and the US national government idoesn't overturn it, does that mean the state law is endorsed by the national government?
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 8:23 amby Dukasaur
mrswdk wrote:So when a US state passes a law and the US national government idoesn't overturn it, does that mean the state law is endorsed by the national government?
Yes, in cases of clear civil rights violations. All precedent points to the federal government having a right and duty to intervene in cases where people are being deprived of Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.
In lesser matters, not necessarily. Many state quirks exist without requiring comment by the federal government because no federal interest is at stake and no Constitutionally-guaranteed right is being violated.
People being imprisoned or executed without trial would be a violation of the 5th and 6th Amendments, at the very least, and would definitely call for federal intervention.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:32 amby mrswdk
Dukasaur wrote:mrswdk wrote:So when a US state passes a law and the US national government idoesn't overturn it, does that mean the state law is endorsed by the national government?
Yes, in cases of clear civil rights violations. All precedent points to the federal government having a right and duty to intervene in cases where people are being deprived of Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.
Maybe that's true in America but in the Russian Federation republics have their own constitutions and are free to enact laws at odds with Russia's.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 9:58 amby Dukasaur
mrswdk wrote:Dukasaur wrote:mrswdk wrote:So when a US state passes a law and the US national government idoesn't overturn it, does that mean the state law is endorsed by the national government?
Yes, in cases of clear civil rights violations. All precedent points to the federal government having a right and duty to intervene in cases where people are being deprived of Constitutionally-guaranteed rights.
Maybe that's true in America but in the Russian Federation republics have their own constitutions and are free to enact laws at odds with Russia's.
You can tell yourself that. Of course, you can tell yourself that unicorns are real, also.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 10:28 amby BoganGod
Dukysnores, your last comment was lazy, and showed you don't have an argument. As a ardent follower, defender and only occasional critic of your posts and wit, am disappointed in you. Please darling try harder. Unicorns do exist fyi, as do fairies, mermaids, and even demons. Art history, in particular sculpture is a great source of alternative facts and fun things.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:03 pmby mrswdk
I read on the news that in China everyone's communist and there are spy cameras in people's water bottles. USA! USA!
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:46 pmby Symmetry
Chechnya is not a country, it's a Republic of Russia. It's constitution is neither factually independent of Russia nor legally so.
I'm not entirely surprised that the most vocal posters here are defending these abominable policies though.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:30 pmby mrswdk
I'm not defending it. Just stating that trying to pin this on 'Russia' is false.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 10:37 pmby Symmetry
mrswdk wrote:I'm not defending it. Just stating that trying to pin this on 'Russia' is false.
Chechnya is a Russian Republic, where does the buck the stop for you?
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:10 pmby mrswdk
With the people who have created and enforced this policy i.e. the Chechnyan authorities.
Re: Russia institutes imprisonment and torture of gay men
Posted:
Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:58 pmby PepeTheFrog
Is it a violation of the rules of this webpage to agree with the Russian government's actions?