Conquer Club

Following Brexit, Rome's mayor, Trump, and Le Pen's upcoming election victory, eyes are starting to turn to the people's next battle against the machine: the Dutch elections.

In this thread we can discuss factors explaining the surge of white-haired supremo Geert Wilders in the Netherlands' polls, and reasons why his surge is awesome for the Netherlands, for Europe, and for the people of the world.

Every single other party in the Netherlands has already expressed they will refuse to join a coalition with Geert Wilders. The guy is not going anywhere, and well deservedly so. He is 10x worse than Le Pen, Trump and Orban combined. How people could be for a guy like that is beyond me. He actively propagates crimes against humanity.

I'm not excusing supporting these types of people (that caveat will of course get lost) but try to think of it from the point of view of this jagoff's supporters. While it's fun to make fun of them as racist or stoopid or whatever, it's important to understand how to educate them and get them to be functioning parts of a modern society... and making fun of them doesn't do it as we've seen here in the US.

thegreekdog wrote:I'm not excusing supporting these types of people (that caveat will of course get lost) but try to think of it from the point of view of this jagoff's supporters. While it's fun to make fun of them as racist or stoopid or whatever, it's important to understand how to educate them and get them to be functioning parts of a modern society... and making fun of them doesn't do it as we've seen here in the US.

People will always be easily manipulated. A lot of racists can be extremely intelligent as well. Education is not always the issue. The problem is that a lot of people simply don't give a damn about politics, spend so little time following it that it's easy to push them in a certain direction. That's not a fact you can simply change. It's a cultural paradigm. In the land blind one eye is king.

Many of these populists simply shift the blame to already vulnerable scapegoats or bloat topics to exagerated proportions.

thegreekdog wrote:I'm not excusing supporting these types of people (that caveat will of course get lost) but try to think of it from the point of view of this jagoff's supporters. While it's fun to make fun of them as racist or stoopid or whatever, it's important to understand how to educate them and get them to be functioning parts of a modern society... and making fun of them doesn't do it as we've seen here in the US.

How will education help? There is a certain amount of wealth available in the Netherlands. The more people allowed in the country, the less wealth there is available per person. Refugees are a form of terrorist because they take up too much space. It's hard enough to afford 200 acres.

thegreekdog wrote:I'm not excusing supporting these types of people (that caveat will of course get lost) but try to think of it from the point of view of this jagoff's supporters. While it's fun to make fun of them as racist or stoopid or whatever, it's important to understand how to educate them and get them to be functioning parts of a modern society... and making fun of them doesn't do it as we've seen here in the US.

Yes, if people were cleverer then they would learn that there is nothing wrong with their current situation or leaders.

Perhaps this education could be made mandatory within schools, delivered by an appropriately trained government educator.

waauw wrote:Every single other party in the Netherlands has already expressed they will refuse to join a coalition with Geert Wilders. The guy is not going anywhere, and well deservedly so. He is 10x worse than Le Pen, Trump and Orban combined. How people could be for a guy like that is beyond me. He actively propagates crimes against humanity.

You're probably right because I don't think the Dutch are very good at doing stuff like thinking.

If the other parties form a coalition to keep Geert out of government, then Geert's party will end up being the largest party out of government, ergo, Geert will be the leading Opposition spokesman which will give him official legitimacy and put him in a powerful position for the next election (which will likely happen quickly as any non PVV coalition will be fragile). If the PVV were brought into government they could be stifled as a small part of a larger whole.

The best thing that could happen to Geert right now is to get a plurality but not be invited to form a government. It seems the Dutch are playing right into his hands.

saxitoxin wrote:

waauw wrote:Every single other party in the Netherlands has already expressed they will refuse to join a coalition with Geert Wilders. The guy is not going anywhere, and well deservedly so. He is 10x worse than Le Pen, Trump and Orban combined. How people could be for a guy like that is beyond me. He actively propagates crimes against humanity.

You're probably right because I don't think the Dutch are very good at doing stuff like thinking.

If the other parties form a coalition to keep Geert out of government, then Geert's party will end up being the largest party out of government, ergo, Geert will be the leading Opposition spokesman which will give him official legitimacy and put him in a powerful position for the next election (which will likely happen quickly as any non PVV coalition will be fragile). If the PVV were brought into government they could be stifled as a small part of a larger whole.

The best thing that could happen to Geert right now is to get a plurality but not be invited to form a government. It seems the Dutch are playing right into his hands.

Not per sé true. You have to keep in mind the dutch parties are using Belgium as a prime example of tackling the problem. In Belgium we hold the same type of governmental system as the Netherlands and we were successfull in banning our far right party from coalition by using this very same method.

In 2004 all parties here convened to form a 'cordon sanitaire' against Vlaams blok when they astoundingly got 24%. This caused the Vlaams blok to gradually shrink to 6% by 2014. People had simply stopped voting for them because it was considered a waste(and taboo btw), much like americans don't vote for the green party or the libertarians, solely for the democrats and republicans.

Now I'm not saying what you speculate can't happen, but if my own country is any evidence, the tactic at least holds valid precedence.

Sigh... here's what I mean:

"Hey, why are you voting for a guy I think is racist?"

"Because my income has increased in 10 years and I am too old to go back to school and I have three kids and because the party for which I voted the last 20 years cares more about refugees and throwing lavish parties than they do about me."

"So, it's because you're racist. Got it."

Perhaps if someone could address the root concerns instead of merely bleating out "you're racist" as if that's the be-all and end-all of arguments, there might be a meeting of the minds. Shit, Bernie Sanders did exactly that if you don't like the Trump-type references.

thegreekdog wrote:Sigh... here's what I mean:

"Hey, why are you voting for a guy I think is racist?"

"Because my income has increased in 10 years and I am too old to go back to school and I have three kids and because the party for which I voted the last 20 years cares more about refugees and throwing lavish parties than they do about me."

"So, it's because you're racist. Got it."

Perhaps if someone could address the root concerns instead of merely bleating out "you're racist" as if that's the be-all and end-all of arguments, there might be a meeting of the minds. Shit, Bernie Sanders did exactly that if you don't like the Trump-type references.

Maybe I expressed myself poorly before, but though some of his voters might merely be naive or discontent, Geert Wilders himself is a racist. This is without a doubt. The prime argument for his campaign is de-islamisation. It's like the nazi-party in 1933. Hitlers voters might not all have been so malignant, but that doesn't clean their hands from supporting nazi cruelties. It is the job of every voting citizen to make sure dangerous maniacs don't get to office.

Yeah, it's stupid to vote for someone who is racist but promises to do something about your discontent. It'd be way cleverer to vote for someone who isn't racist but ignores your discontent.

mrswdk wrote:

waauw wrote:Maybe I expressed myself poorly before, but though some of his voters might merely be naive or discontent, Geert Wilders himself is a racist. This is without a doubt. The prime argument for his campaign is de-islamisation. It's like the nazi-party in 1933. Hitlers voters might not all have been so malignant, but that doesn't clean their hands from supporting nazi cruelties. It is the job of every voting citizen to make sure dangerous maniacs don't get to office.

Maybe if any other party other than Wilders' gave even the appearance of trying to deal with those people's discontent, they wouldn't feel like voting for Wilders.

Geert Wilders dropped 7% in polls in february.

mrswdk wrote:Yeah, it's stupid to vote for someone who is racist but promises to do something about your discontent. It'd be way cleverer to vote for someone who isn't racist but ignores your discontent.

sure... because the PVV is the ONLY party with an election program. All the other parties just hand in blanco papers.

waauw wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

waauw wrote:Maybe I expressed myself poorly before, but though some of his voters might merely be naive or discontent, Geert Wilders himself is a racist. This is without a doubt. The prime argument for his campaign is de-islamisation. It's like the nazi-party in 1933. Hitlers voters might not all have been so malignant, but that doesn't clean their hands from supporting nazi cruelties. It is the job of every voting citizen to make sure dangerous maniacs don't get to office.

Maybe if any other party other than Wilders' gave even the appearance of trying to deal with those people's discontent, they wouldn't feel like voting for Wilders.

Geert Wilders dropped 7% in polls in february.

It says a lot about the guy that he can throw away 7 percentage points and still be i the lead. Geert probably finds 100,000 votes down the back of the couch while he's looking for the remote.

waauw wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Yeah, it's stupid to vote for someone who is racist but promises to do something about your discontent. It'd be way cleverer to vote for someone who isn't racist but ignores your discontent.

sure... because the PVV is the ONLY party with an election program. All the other parties just hand in blanco papers.

mrswdk wrote:Following Brexit, Rome's mayor, Trump, and Le Pen's upcoming election victory, eyes are starting to turn to the people's next battle against the machine: the Dutch elections.

In this thread we can discuss factors explaining the surge of white-haired supremo Geert Wilders in the Netherlands' polls, and reasons why his surge is awesome for the Netherlands, for Europe, and for the people of the world.

So, tell us why you think it's "awesome".

In yet another country people who've been ignored for years are getting the chance to kick the system that doesn't care about them.

Dukasaur wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Following Brexit, Rome's mayor, Trump, and Le Pen's upcoming election victory, eyes are starting to turn to the people's next battle against the machine: the Dutch elections.

In this thread we can discuss factors explaining the surge of white-haired supremo Geert Wilders in the Netherlands' polls, and reasons why his surge is awesome for the Netherlands, for Europe, and for the people of the world.

So, tell us why you think it's "awesome".

"Some people just want to see the world burn." - Alfred

waauw wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:Sigh... here's what I mean:

"Hey, why are you voting for a guy I think is racist?"

"Because my income has increased in 10 years and I am too old to go back to school and I have three kids and because the party for which I voted the last 20 years cares more about refugees and throwing lavish parties than they do about me."

"So, it's because you're racist. Got it."

Perhaps if someone could address the root concerns instead of merely bleating out "you're racist" as if that's the be-all and end-all of arguments, there might be a meeting of the minds. Shit, Bernie Sanders did exactly that if you don't like the Trump-type references.

Maybe I expressed myself poorly before, but though some of his voters might merely be naive or discontent, Geert Wilders himself is a racist. This is without a doubt. The prime argument for his campaign is de-islamisation. It's like the nazi-party in 1933. Hitlers voters might not all have been so malignant, but that doesn't clean their hands from supporting nazi cruelties. It is the job of every voting citizen to make sure dangerous maniacs don't get to office.

When one is suffering it is probably fairly easy to support a dangerous maniac who is not going to hurt you directly. As has been indicated in pretty much every media outlet in the world, there are a lot of parallels between 1930s Germany and what is going on now. Again, my point is not to apologize for people that elect dangerous maniacs; my point is that we should not ignore the plight of those people simply because the only person that is ostensibly supporting those people (in their minds) is a dangerous maniac.

waauw wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:I'm not excusing supporting these types of people (that caveat will of course get lost) but try to think of it from the point of view of this jagoff's supporters. While it's fun to make fun of them as racist or stoopid or whatever, it's important to understand how to educate them and get them to be functioning parts of a modern society... and making fun of them doesn't do it as we've seen here in the US.

People will always be easily manipulated. A lot of racists can be extremely intelligent as well. Education is not always the issue. The problem is that a lot of people simply don't give a damn about politics, spend so little time following it that it's easy to push them in a certain direction. That's not a fact you can simply change. It's a cultural paradigm. In the land blind one eye is king.

Many of these populists simply shift the blame to already vulnerable scapegoats or bloat topics to exagerated proportions.

The problem today, is that with so many sources of information, people can see the news through filters that twist things in simplistic terms. It's so much more convenient to decide that the medias are all devoted to the massonic illuminati bankers, and that you don't want to hear about mainstream mediafacts, the only thing that matter are your guts, to wave your massive testicles and to defend your interests because you deserve it more than anyone else. And obviously, lunatics making youtube videos know all about the truth

mrswdk wrote:In yet another country people who've been ignored for years are getting the chance to kick the system that doesn't care about them.

I don't see it. I don't see how electing someone who runs on a campaign of xenophobia and hate, but otherwise is a perfect run-of-the-mill mainstream populist, is "kicking the system."

There's really two ways to "kick the system."

1. One could elect a hard-core libertarian who would shut down the apparatus of the State or at least a substantial portion of it. That would actually "kick" the system, or at least the government-funded part of it.
2. On the other hand, one could elect a Chavez-style communist who would keep the apparatus of the State but redistribute private wealth. That would "kick" the privately-run part of the system.

Electing someone like Trump does neither. Let's say he does follow through on his campaign pledge to round up all three million Mexicans in the U.S. The prisons-for-profit companies in the U.S. (who unquestionably are part of the system) will be ecstatic. In fact, I'll bet they're ejaculating on the boardroom table right now, thinking of three million new prisoners. Absolutely no part of the system will be harmed by Trump, only the common people.

I'll agree with you that the people vote for something like that because they think they've been ignored, but if they think that will change they've sure got another thing coming.

point : dukasaur.

Electing someone like Trump certainly kicks the system. Mainly it shows how an ineffective system competes.

riskllama wrote:point : dukasaur.

+1 dukasaur spitting truth again. I might even start liking canadians......

mrswdk message for you sweetums.
I love the way you lie