Conquer Club

So, first debate. Pretty interesting.

What did you think?

I wish I didn't work during it.

I should start off by saying that I am not really a fan of either candidate.

However, I feel it's clear Clinton won. In terms of debating, Trump seemed to be quite lost in an environment where the moderator actually tried to keep him in check and his opponent didn't take the bait. Instead, he seemed to be the one to lose his cool. In philosophy classes in school where we had to do debates, I always felt like the side that let themselves get emotional and stray off topic to try to make personal jabs or to speak out of turn was the one that was losing and that they let it get to them. This seemed to be the case tonight. Trump was put on the defensive, let himself get baited, and tried using the same tactics that got him through the Republican debates.

In terms of actually answering the questions, I feel that again, Clinton did better. I've always hated listening to politicians try to circumnavigate talking points that they'd rather avoid, especially when they do so blatantly. At least try to be subtle. Having a moderator prompt you to stay on topic and answer the question isn't a good thing, especially if it happens multiple times in succession.

Again, I'd say Clinton won this one by far. However, I don't think she did amazing in this debate. Rather, it was more a case of Trump losing the debate for himself. Clinton stayed on topic and gave some good answers and good jabs, while at other times some answers seemed to fall flat, at least for what I was looking to hear, yet that didn't seem to matter. Trump just kept hurting himself over and over and over again. Admitting he avoided paying taxes that everyone is supposed to pay and claiming that he was smart for not paying them. Admitting he did not pay a contractor for the work he had done after it was completed, yet still enjoying the benefits of the labor. Trying to justify misogyny against a woman, any woman, by claiming she deserved it? Really? I feel like that's something that any sane adult should know not to say on national television for all to hear.

Unfortunately, I don't think that every American thinks like me. I made the mistake of opening an article about the debate on Facebook and reading the comments. The very first one said "Trump clearly won." It was then followed by 200+ replies from different individuals that basically went like this:

Clinton clearly won. You're an idiot.
Trump won. You're the idiot.
No you're the idiot. Clinton won.
Hitlery didn't win idiot. Trump did.
Trump is Hitler idiot. He lost. Clinton won.

On and on and on for hundreds of posts. Just baseless claims and blatant insults without a single voice of reason. So maybe I'm in the minority and this debate actually appealed to others who watched it?

There were no surprises, unfortunately. I was really hoping for something, but both stayed true to the role they've played all along. Trump was the bombastic bullshitter that he's always been. Clinton was the smarmy tool of the Establishment that she's always been.

In terms of helping themselves, I think Trump won, by a hair. He was able to stomp all over the moderator, ignore his time limits, and make any point he wanted, which builds on the aura of "WIN!" that he tries to portray. Clinton made more logical arguments, but people vote emotion not logic, and in emotional terms she continued to look like the weaker party.

First let me say I support Hillary Clinton in this election. I support a 3rd party candidate as well, however given the nature of the American system I would only use my vote in a national election on one of the 2 major parties. I do not think a Trump presidency bodes well for America or the world.

While I think a few of the things trump said, particularly admitting to not paying contractors and avoid federal income tax will not play well for him. However I see Trump as a very intelligent man, and most critically he is a master persuader. He is much more effective marketer, and a much more effective communicator. He has his faults... clearly. But he is far more effective at recovering from his mis-steps and fault than clinton is. In the end I think Trump will win the election based on what I'm seeing. Here are a few reason why:

1. Smart, well-informed people disagree on nearly all major issues. So being smart and well-informed doesn’t help you grasp reality as much as you would hope. If it did, all of the smart, well-informed people would agree. They don’t.

2. Trump says lots of things that don’t pass the fact-checkers’ tests. His supporters don’t care because facts don’t influence decisions. Humans decide first, then rationalize their irrational choices with cherry-picked data. You see this all the time with the people who disagree with your brilliance. Just remember that they see the same irrationality in you that you see in them.

3. Every candidate looks good until we learn more about that person’s past. Then every candidate looks terrible. But is it possible that only terrible people run for president and get to the final rounds?

4. Humans are not rational creatures. We are creatures who believe we are rational.

5. Trump always takes the extreme position on matters of safety and security for the country, even if those positions are unconstitutional, impractical, evil, or something that the military would refuse to do. Normal people see this as a dangerous situation. I see this as something called pacing and leading. Trump “paces” the public – meaning he matches them in their emotional state, and then some. He does that with his extreme responses on immigration, fighting ISIS, stop-and-frisk, etc. Once Trump has established himself as the biggest bad-ass on the topic, he is free to “lead,” which we see him do by softening his deportation stand, limiting his stop-and-frisk comment to Chicago, reversing his first answer on penalties for abortion, and so on.

6.Most of the job of president is persuasion. It's even more important as a skill to getting elected. Presidents don’t need to understand policy minutia. They need to listen to experts and then help sell the best expert solutions to the public. Trump sells better than anyone you have ever seen, even if you haven’t personally bought into him yet. You can’t deny his persuasion talents that have gotten him this far.

In summary, I don’t understand the policy details and implications of most of either Trump’s or Clinton’s proposed ideas. Neither do you. But I do understand persuasion. Hillary is so weak in terms of her persuasion skills, and Trump the best I've ever seen. I can only predict Trump will find a way to persuade enough people to win this election.

I caught the end of the debate. I didn't even know it was on until a friend snapchatted silly faces of them on his TV. That said, I haven't wasted a squirt on politics for almost a year now. That includes any cable news of any kind, NUTT! I tried to listen to what was going on for a minute here n there and all I got to see was trump waiting to speak because assholes in the audience never stfu so I didn't hear dick. The only Clinton stuff I know is thanks to saxi ffunzerss of Clinton almost passing out from too many opiates and something where she coughed for like 3 minutes straight. That said I think trump looked okay tonight. Hillary looked befuddled. I saw trump staying on topic about Japan and stamina and I saw Hillary resort to saying what Trump said in the past concerning nothing to do with politics per his alleged nasty word he said about a woman. Well Gee Whiz It's almost like exactly how I said it would be a couple years ago. I would really like to see Gary Johnson crash the debate and prop a rostrum until he gets arrested.

mookiemcgee wrote:First let me say I support Hillary Clinton in this election. I support a 3rd party candidate as well, however given the nature of the American system I would only use my vote in a national election on one of the 2 major parties. I do not think a Trump presidency bodes well for America or the world.

While I think a few of the things trump said, particularly admitting to not paying contractors and avoid federal income tax will not play well for him. However I see Trump as a very intelligent man, and most critically he is a master persuader. He is much more effective marketer, and a much more effective communicator. He has his faults... clearly. But he is far more effective at recovering from his mis-steps and fault than clinton is. In the end I think Trump will win the election based on what I'm seeing. Here are a few reason why:

1. Smart, well-informed people disagree on nearly all major issues. So being smart and well-informed doesn’t help you grasp reality as much as you would hope. If it did, all of the smart, well-informed people would agree. They don’t.

2. Trump says lots of things that don’t pass the fact-checkers’ tests. His supporters don’t care because facts don’t influence decisions. Humans decide first, then rationalize their irrational choices with cherry-picked data. You see this all the time with the people who disagree with your brilliance. Just remember that they see the same irrationality in you that you see in them.

3. Every candidate looks good until we learn more about that person’s past. Then every candidate looks terrible. But is it possible that only terrible people run for president and get to the final rounds?

4. Humans are not rational creatures. We are creatures who believe we are rational.

5. Trump always takes the extreme position on matters of safety and security for the country, even if those positions are unconstitutional, impractical, evil, or something that the military would refuse to do. Normal people see this as a dangerous situation. I see this as something called pacing and leading. Trump “paces” the public – meaning he matches them in their emotional state, and then some. He does that with his extreme responses on immigration, fighting ISIS, stop-and-frisk, etc. Once Trump has established himself as the biggest bad-ass on the topic, he is free to “lead,” which we see him do by softening his deportation stand, limiting his stop-and-frisk comment to Chicago, reversing his first answer on penalties for abortion, and so on.

6.Most of the job of president is persuasion. It's even more important as a skill to getting elected. Presidents don’t need to understand policy minutia. They need to listen to experts and then help sell the best expert solutions to the public. Trump sells better than anyone you have ever seen, even if you haven’t personally bought into him yet. You can’t deny his persuasion talents that have gotten him this far.

In summary, I don’t understand the policy details and implications of most of either Trump’s or Clinton’s proposed ideas. Neither do you. But I do understand persuasion. Hillary is so weak in terms of her persuasion skills, and Trump the best I've ever seen. I can only predict Trump will find a way to persuade enough people to win this election.

Dude, you either read zero hedge and caught Scott Adams article or you read Scott Adams at Dilbertdotcom cause you lifted some of your points straight from that. And I mean verbatim for 5 and 6 at least.

He has a point about Trump and his persuasion skills as well as his pacing technique.

Phatscotty wrote:I caught the end of the debate. I didn't even know it was on until a friend snapchatted silly faces of them on his TV. That said, I haven't wasted a squirt on politics for almost a year now. That includes any cable news of any kind, NUTT! I tried to listen to what was going on for a minute here n there and all I got to see was trump waiting to speak because assholes in the audience never stfu so I didn't hear dick. The only Clinton stuff I know is thanks to saxi ffunzerss of Clinton almost passing out from too many opiates and something where she coughed for like 3 minutes straight. That said I think trump looked okay tonight. Hillary looked befuddled. I saw trump staying on topic about Japan and stamina and I saw Hillary resort to saying what Trump said in the past concerning nothing to do with politics per his alleged nasty word he said about a woman. Well Gee Whiz It's almost like exactly how I said it would be a couple years ago. I would really like to see Gary Johnson crash the debate and prop a rostrum until he gets arrested.

You caught the end of the debate?

Go away you shrill.

Trump came off as uneducated and bombastic. Clinton won the debate.

Bernie Sanders wrote:You caught the end of the debate?

I also caught the end of the debate. I have a barbershop harmony society chapter's 50th anniversary show to rehearse for. We were working on our riser presence and actually getting the notes right (at this late date, this is a major worry).

The debate was as one would expect. The question of "who won" is a mostly moot point anyway. The only "winner" is the one who gets elected in November.

Bernie Sanders wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:I caught the end of the debate. I didn't even know it was on until a friend snapchatted silly faces of them on his TV. That said, I haven't wasted a squirt on politics for almost a year now. That includes any cable news of any kind, NUTT! I tried to listen to what was going on for a minute here n there and all I got to see was trump waiting to speak because assholes in the audience never stfu so I didn't hear dick. The only Clinton stuff I know is thanks to saxi ffunzerss of Clinton almost passing out from too many opiates and something where she coughed for like 3 minutes straight. That said I think trump looked okay tonight. Hillary looked befuddled. I saw trump staying on topic about Japan and stamina and I saw Hillary resort to saying what Trump said in the past concerning nothing to do with politics per his alleged nasty word he said about a woman. Well Gee Whiz It's almost like exactly how I said it would be a couple years ago. I would really like to see Gary Johnson crash the debate and prop a rostrum until he gets arrested.

You caught the end of the debate?

Go away you shrill.

Trump came off as uneducated and bombastic. Clinton won the debate.

Right.... gee I wonder how many lefties think Hillary won. Like this little mental circle jerk that people do. "I hate Trump, therefore he lost! Haha!"

If I reveal that I did not vote in the poll, can I please stay? That would be swell.

Ta!

Clinton kept her cool throughout the debate, and at least went into detail about her plans (agree with them or not).
Trump... Danced around the issue, threw blame at Clinton for, everything (literally everything), and made vague and "bigly" (his word, not mine) campaign promises.

I like how people keep talking after I already said everything there is to say...

Dukasaur wrote:I like how people keep talking after I already said everything there is to say...

You didn't mention "bigly"!

Lester Holt was a shill for her and Hillary had the questions in advance. Here is what I learned, Trump is responsible for the Iraq war even though Hillary voted for it and made the case for it. Trump is solely responsible for the birther idea even though Hillary started it. The economy (according to Lester) is booming even though most Americans outside of banking new york or silicon valley would disagree with that. Lester interrupted trump continually while not even once questioning Hillary. Lester Asked Trump 15 questions and Hillary two. Somehow Trumps tax returns are a bigger deal than Hillarys 33,000 emails, the Clinton foundation, and Immigration? Benghazi? Hillarys funding from Saudi Arabia?

Despite it all Trump won the debate. Not bad for his first one on one debate ever and going against a seasoned politician who has been debating continually since high school.

Trump improved his image whether you libturds will admit it or not. He has the temperament and knowledge to be POTUS and is more qualified than any politician since Kennedy and Reagan. And when it comes down to it he crushed it on the economy which is the most important thing.

Hillary is somehow now an expert on cyber security? The national security risk, that was her basement bathroom server, what a joke.

Commence Libturds cry fest now.

*shit leopard sighting*
welcome to the forums, chatstevens...

Moderator: "Madame Secretary, will you promote a law to save unicorns, in order that brainless people can live in lalaland"?
- Hillary: "Yes, of course, and I'll provide to build sanctuaries for unicorns all around the Country, also I'll personally export our sanctuaries all around the world".
- Moderator: "That's a cute thing to know, our Allies will be satisfied and reassured now. Thank you Madame Secretary. Now, Mr. Trump, why do you like to kill unicorns"?
- Trump: "WTF"?

do you know what a "source" is, chatstevens???

catstevens wrote:Moderator: "Madame Secretary, will you promote a law to save unicorns, in order that brainless people can live in lalaland"?
- Hillary: "Yes, of course, and I'll provide to build sanctuaries for unicorns all around the Country, also I'll personally export our sanctuaries all around the world".
- Moderator: "That's a cute thing to know, our Allies will be satisfied and reassured now. Thank you Madame Secretary. Now, Mr. Trump, why do you like to kill unicorns"?
- Trump: "WTF"?

oh gee....another political comedian.....You are as funny, as Trump is smart.

shoulda been you, Bernie...

Funny how Kilary always looked at her notes after being asked a question " she didn't know was coming". And how refreshing to have a totally unbiased host! Gotta love the media.

Not a big fan of either,and don't get to vote-but the best debating point of the whole thing was "You know what else I prepared for?..."

Bernie Sanders wrote:

catstevens wrote:Moderator: "Madame Secretary, will you promote a law to save unicorns, in order that brainless people can live in lalaland"?
- Hillary: "Yes, of course, and I'll provide to build sanctuaries for unicorns all around the Country, also I'll personally export our sanctuaries all around the world".
- Moderator: "That's a cute thing to know, our Allies will be satisfied and reassured now. Thank you Madame Secretary. Now, Mr. Trump, why do you like to kill unicorns"?
- Trump: "WTF"?

oh gee....another political comedian.....You are as funny, as Trump is smart.

Where's Woodruff when you need him?

They're both losers and whoever you morons elect, the world loses.

catstevens wrote:Lester Holt was a shill for her and Hillary had the questions in advance.

Indeed. The whole thing was a fix. Clinton clearly went in knowing that there would be questions about the economy, and about foreign and domestic policy. Trump should have been told that those questions would be asked.

Symmetry wrote:

catstevens wrote:Lester Holt was a shill for her and Hillary had the questions in advance.

Indeed. The whole thing was a fix. Clinton clearly went in knowing that there would be questions about the economy, and about foreign and domestic policy. Trump should have been told that those questions would be asked.

sym - i present to you, chatstevens...
go easy on him...