Conquer Club

Ernst & Young Removes Degree Classification From Entry Criteria As There’s ‘No Evidence’ University Equals Success

Ernst & Young, one of the UK’s biggest graduate recruiters, has announced it will be removing the degree classification from its entry criteria, saying there is “no evidence” success at university correlates with achievement in later life.

In an unprecendented move, the accountancy firm is scrapping its policy of requiring a 2:1 and the equivalent of three B grades at A-level in order to open opportunities for talented individuals “regardless of their background”.

Maggie Stilwell, EY’s managing partner for talent, said the company would use online assessments to judge the potential of applicants.

“Academic qualifications will still be taken into account and indeed remain an important consideration when assessing candidates as a whole, but will no longer act as a barrier to getting a foot in the door,” she said.

“Our own internal research of over 400 graduates found that screening students based on academic performance alone was too blunt an approach to recruitment.

“It found no evidence to conclude that previous success in higher education correlated with future success in subsequent professional qualifications undertaken.”

The company offers 200 graduate-level jobs each year, making it the fifth largest recruiter of graduates in the UK. The changes will come into force in 2016.

Earlier this year, PricewaterhouseCoopers (PwC) scrapped using UCAS points as entry criteria for its graduate scheme. The audit firm believes placing too much emphasis on the scores will mean employers may miss out on key talent from disadvantaged backgrounds, who can perform less well at school.

DoomYoshi wrote:This is excellent news. I have lived on the streets and been to college, and there is no difference in the intelligence level at either place, except at the extremes (the really smart people are generally in college and the really stupid generally on the streets). The majority of college kids do the same stupid shit that kids on the street do. The difference is that one group ends up with a degree and jobs and the other ends up with alimony payments and a drug habit.

KoolBak wrote:fact that he's damn good looking will help too ;o)

KoolBak wrote:

Lucky Se7en wrote:I graduated from college, got a better job than my friends who didn't go to school and I use what I learned from my program every day at work...seems like I'm a minority. I guess it varies in different fields/industries though.

Symmetry wrote:

Lucky Se7en wrote:I graduated from college, got a better job than my friends who didn't go to school and I use what I learned from my program every day at work...seems like I'm a minority. I guess it varies in different fields/industries though.

You're right it's still a better idea to have a degree, especially, as you point out, to have one in a field that has a professional application. My degrees have mostly been in English and History, and even without the direct knowledge, the skills learned are useful.

I've recently been doing volunteer work with asylum seekers in my area, and it's amazing how much difference a degree makes. It's not simply the knowledge, but the ability to explain and use it, and the skills associated.

Soft skills are often less marketable, but more transferable.

DoomYoshi wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

Lucky Se7en wrote:I graduated from college, got a better job than my friends who didn't go to school and I use what I learned from my program every day at work...seems like I'm a minority. I guess it varies in different fields/industries though.

You're right it's still a better idea to have a degree, especially, as you point out, to have one in a field that has a professional application. My degrees have mostly been in English and History, and even without the direct knowledge, the skills learned are useful.

I've recently been doing volunteer work with asylum seekers in my area, and it's amazing how much difference a degree makes. It's not simply the knowledge, but the ability to explain and use it, and the skills associated.

Soft skills are often less marketable, but more transferable.

Anything you can learn in college, you can learn by yourself; probably more effectively and quicker if you are focused.

mrswdk wrote:DY is right.I've been involved with apprenticeship programs in the UK before and in doing so spoken to countless people working in companies in fields like PR, marketing, media etc. who've hired 18 year-old apprentices and found them to be just as capable as 21/22 year-old fresh graduates they'd hired for the same positions. Same at my company: the most recent junior hires we took on are both recent grads from Oxford and Cambridge, and we started them on work that I'd feel comfortable giving to an 18 year-old gap year intern. Those same people could have joined us straight from high school and would have been just as capable.

The only reason to do a degree is if you will learn things directly applicable to a specific job or sector in that degree (e.g. medicine, engineering). If all you're going to do is spend 3-4 years writing theoretical essays, you're better off skipping uni and just learning on the job.

Symmetry wrote:Apprenticeships are great when they work, but they're only comparable to degrees that offer similar skills.

mrswdk wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Apprenticeships are great when they work, but they're only comparable to degrees that offer similar skills.

Yes, an apprenticeship and a degree that offers the same skills as an apprenticeship are comparable. The key difference is that one takes 3 years and costs the student 45k+, the other lasts about a year and the student gets paid while undertaking it.

Your post doesn't really make much sense. I assume you've been at the pub tonight.

Lucky Se7en wrote:One thing I've noticed is that there is a HUGE difference between the competency of the engineering interns we hire and our new hires who are very close in age. I'm guessing part of it is psychological because one is more inclined to go into it with the mentality of a summer job while the other is coming into it with the mentality of taking the first step into a career. Regardless of the mentality though, I feel like something tends to click around junior-senior year for those students. I also feel like there are certain schools where it doesn't click for their students nearly as much as it should.

Symmetry wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Apprenticeships are great when they work, but they're only comparable to degrees that offer similar skills.

Yes, an apprenticeship and a degree that offers the same skills as an apprenticeship are comparable. The key difference is that one takes 3 years and costs the student 45k+, the other lasts about a year and the student gets paid while undertaking it.

Your post doesn't really make much sense. I assume you've been at the pub tonight.

The key is that apprenticeships are rare. Great, but rare. They aren't real alternatives for most people

mrswdk wrote:

Symmetry wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Symmetry wrote:Apprenticeships are great when they work, but they're only comparable to degrees that offer similar skills.

Yes, an apprenticeship and a degree that offers the same skills as an apprenticeship are comparable. The key difference is that one takes 3 years and costs the student 45k+, the other lasts about a year and the student gets paid while undertaking it.

Your post doesn't really make much sense. I assume you've been at the pub tonight.

The key is that apprenticeships are rare. Great, but rare. They aren't real alternatives for most people

That doesn't make them worse. It just means there aren't enough of them.

mrswdk wrote:Unanimous opinions of real employers and skills councils > speculative OT comments