BREXIT

[saxitoxin]

talk about it or something here, can't believe no one has started a thread about this until now

[Dukasaur]

I have just two words to add to this debate: Empress Matilda.

[waauw]

Remain. The EU is far from perfect and has a lot of weaknesses it needs to clean up, but ultimately there is still strength in togetherness.

[Keefie]

The polls are starting to favour Brexit so that's were my money is.

[mrswdk]

I've stopped caring which way the vote goes. I just want my news feed to go back to how it was before, when it wasn't swamped by Brexit shit.

[JBlombier]

Every once in a while the media feel the urge to tell me that a Brexit is gonna cost us (and the Brits themselves) money, but that there's literally nothing we can do, because it's actually none of our business. I wish they'd vote already, because frankly: no one gives a shit. Sure, there will be consequences. Just like everything else has in the history of economy.

Stay or leave, but do it now and get it over with.

- JBlombier

[warmonger1981]

If they quit the EU then the whole idea will begin to collapse. Other countries will think about following.The Commission plays a vital role in the EU. It is the body which proposes new legislation draws up the EU's annual budget and manages and supervises EU funding. The Commission consists of 28 members one from each member state. Why would anyone want to have another country proposing legislation for them? That's a lot of different ideologies dictating your society.

[TeeGee]

I had bacon and eggs on toast for brexit, but was still hungry and can't wait for lunch

[waauw]

If they quit the EU then the whole idea will begin to collapse. Other countries will think about following.The Commission plays a vital role in the EU. It is the body which proposes new legislation draws up the EU's annual budget and manages and supervises EU funding. The Commission consists of 28 members one from each member state. Why would anyone want to have another country proposing legislation for them? That's a lot of different ideologies dictating your society.

In a certain sense I agree with you, because I think the EU expanded too fast. But on the other hand, never in history has there been so much economic prosperity and cooperation in europe, and it's all because of the EU. What do you think will happen if the UK leaves? Trading barriers will be raised on both sides and both will lose out because of it. Nobody will win(economically). History has already shown that countries benefit from working together rather than opposing eachother.

And this does not even take into account that the EU will have to retaliate against the UK with strict measures(for instance by showing very little willingness towards a friendly free trade agreement) purely to make a point and prevent more nations from leaving.

[mrswdk]

Yeah but the UK told Europe where to go once before (1945) and it can tell Europe where to go once again (2016).

[waauw]

Yeah but the UK told Europe where to go once before (1945) and it can tell Europe where to go once again (2016).

I think you forgot already, the British empire is no more.

[mrswdk]

Yeah but the UK told Europe where to go once before (1945) and it can tell Europe where to go once again (2016).

I think you forgot already, the British empire is no more.

That's okay because neither are the German or French empires.

[waauw]

Yeah but the UK told Europe where to go once before (1945) and it can tell Europe where to go once again (2016).

I think you forgot already, the British empire is no more.

That's okay because neither are the German or French empires.

Exactly, no country stands above the ensemble. Germany and France have been the pulling wagons so far because many other countries agreed with their positions. The UK leaving the EU will have the opposite effect by distancing them from the rest of the continent. The UK has the potential to exercise as much power as Germany and France if they didn't distance themselves from the rest of continent constantly.

[mrswdk]

Distancing oneself is exactly how to exercise power. An example close to both our hearts would be ASEAN's hilarious reversal of a statement it made yesterday on its concerns over events in the South China Sea mere hours after making it. Would China achieve these rhetorical victories by simply going along with whatever ASEAN tells it?

China (just like Galileo, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela etc. before it) achieves these victories by breaking ranks and daring to think differently, not by following the pack like a sheep. And the UK will continue to do the same - it will fight against the Nazis, not vote for them and/or appease them just because that's what everyone else is doing.

Rule Britannia!

[waauw]

Distancing oneself is exactly how to exercise power. An example close to both our hearts would be ASEAN's hilarious reversal of a statement it made yesterday on its concerns over events in the South China Sea mere hours after making it. Would China achieve these rhetorical victories by simply going along with whatever ASEAN tells it?

China (just like Galileo, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela etc. before it) achieves these victories by breaking ranks and daring to think differently, not by following the pack like a sheep. And the UK will continue to do the same - it will fight against the Nazis, not vote for them and/or appease them just because that's what everyone else is doing.

Rule Britannia!

There's a difference. ASEAN and China are not the EU. In almost every way the EU is unique in the world and unique in history. Do you know why Brussels is the capital of europe and not Strasbourg? Because the Belgian prime minister at the time rallied all smaller nations behind him when the French and the Germans tried to divide the pie amongst themselves.The small felt the inclination to point out that smaller nations hold equal rights.

Yes size and power still influences the EU, but not to the extent it used to. Nowadays any country in europe can veto decisions. Macedonia for instance can not even start a procedure to enter europe because Greece veto'd them.

Now I'm not going to claim the UK can't eventually benefit from a BREXIT, but it's highly unlikely to happen on the short term and nobody actually knows what will happen on the long term. Staying within the EU might be the sheep thing to do, but it's also the more cautious and safe thing to do. Leaving is basically a blind bet.

ps: let's face it China is vastly more powerful than the UK at the moment. So I don't understand this benchmark.

[mandyb]

Distancing oneself is exactly how to exercise power. An example close to both our hearts would be ASEAN's hilarious reversal of a statement it made yesterday on its concerns over events in the South China Sea mere hours after making it. Would China achieve these rhetorical victories by simply going along with whatever ASEAN tells it?

China (just like Galileo, Martin Luther King, Nelson Mandela etc. before it) achieves these victories by breaking ranks and daring to think differently, not by following the pack like a sheep. And the UK will continue to do the same - it will fight against the Nazis, not vote for them and/or appease them just because that's what everyone else is doing.

Rule Britannia!

Exactly. Staying in the failing EU and being ruled by the failing Eu or separating and at least having the chance to make our own laws with people we know the names of and have elected. I have reservations as to whether we'll be able to leave but it will mark great changes for the entire world if we do.
Never mind Rule Britannia, rule Democracy!

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

If they quit the EU then the whole idea will begin to collapse. Other countries will think about following.The Commission plays a vital role in the EU. It is the body which proposes new legislation draws up the EU's annual budget and manages and supervises EU funding. The Commission consists of 28 members one from each member state. Why would anyone want to have another country proposing legislation for them? That's a lot of different ideologies dictating your society.

Like the UNITED F**king STATES you mean?

[warmonger1981]

Please explain? I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make.

[Metsfanmax]

What is the most cogent argument for Brexit that you all have seen?

[mrswdk]

What is the most cogent argument for Brexit that you all have seen?

The Leave campaigners are generally richer aka smarter, which is what's swung it for me.

Also Germany started printing Mein Kampf again last year so it's clearly time to get out.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Please explain? I'm not understanding the point you're trying to make.

You live in a federal republic of 50 states and are suggesting that being part of a group of 28 members in europe is absurd.

If you cant see the ridiculousness of that then I pity you.

[waauw]

What is the most cogent argument for Brexit that you all have seen?

The Leave campaigners are generally richer aka smarter, which is what's swung it for me.

Also Germany started printing Mein Kampf again last year so it's clearly time to get out.

I think this is the first time I see you disagree with the Chinese Communist Party:

According to President Xi Jinping of China, Brexit — a British exit from the European Union (EU) — could leave his country stranded from global free trade…

Not only that, China fears a Brexit will grant the United States more free-trade market dominance.

President Xi made no bones about his views on a Brexit when he visited the UK to make $61 billion-worth of trade deals in October 2015. One such transaction included granting China a one-third stake in a French-led project to build a new $34 billion nuclear power station on the remote hillsides of Somerset, England — a venture that banks on Britain's foothold in the EU.

On the last day of his trip, Xi urged the citizens of Britain to choose to "remain" in the EU when they take to the polls on June 23.

"China hopes to see a prosperous Europe and a united EU," his ministry stated, according to Financial Times, on Oct. 23, 2015, "and hopes Britain, as an important member of the EU, can play an even more positive and constructive role in promoting the deepening development of China-EU ties."

Xi's statement was a rarity as Chinese diplomats typically abstain from making public proclamations on foreign affairs. His urgent words reflect Beijing's growing concerns that a Brexit would hinder European market access for the world's second-largest economy.

You see, China has been vying for quite some time to use the United Kingdom as a springboard into the whole European market…

In recent years, Great Britain has enjoyed myriad Chinese investments across various sectors: "From everyday consumer goods to an avant-garde civil nuclear project. No matter if it's eating one's Weetbix cereals or drinking tap water, getting a black cab or driving one's MG Rover to work, Chinese investments have already quietly entered the everyday life of nearly every single British household," wrote Dr. Yu Jie for the London School of Economics and Political Science earlier today.

Without its EU membership, the UK would lose its attractiveness to these major Chinese corporations.

What's more, according to Xi, a Brexit will have a favorable impact on the United States by reducing the EU's slice of global market share.

"Chinese diplomats say Britain's potential exit from the EU worries Beijing, which believes free-market supporting Britain strengthens the EU, which China sees as an important ballast to American market dominance," reported RT.com on Oct. 23, 2015.

You see, the United States is already set to gain $95 billion per year from a free-trade agreement with the EU, which will conclude by the end of this year. The UK would be excluded from this Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) if it leaves.

And, in turn, China would lose its biggest trading partner in the west – its essential key to opening the gateway to Europe.

[warmonger1981]

I pity the fool. If you don't see the difference between European and American cultures then I must pity you. Europe has a deep history of religious and cultural diversity. America has a corporate culture. You must be supportive of Sharia Law then. I mean in the name of diversity why not let that into the conversation? What is happening in Europe with the refugees changing the culture America did with the Indians. The political process in Europe is not like the American political system. That's obvious. If you can't see that then your blind. It seems like you would be for global government then. Why not let a person in Ethiopia dictate how your country runs?