Guns make us safe

[Bernie Sanders]

We need more guns in America, so we can feel safe!



I can't wait for ordinary Americans to save us from the next terrorist attack.



And we want to arm teachers?

[parker4s]

I think the nature of what they say in these videos is true. Funny at times for sure.

[tzor]

Once again, Bernie, you have it all backwards.

Guns don't "make us safe."
Guns go "Into my safe."

(As does some other things I'm not going to mention.)

[Phatscotty]

Feel free to address this question in a way that supports your claim, I'm gonna bet you will ignore it.

Armed psycho enters group A of 50 people, none of which are carrying guns, none of which can defend themselves
Armed psycho enters group B of 50 people, all of which are carrying guns, all of them can defend themselves
which group fares better, and why?

Guns can be weapons for killing, guns can also be defense tools to prevent from being killed. When you make a premise based solely on guns, you are kinda saying that it's forks that make people fat and pencils that misspell words. We all know that isn't the case, but sure, you can make the case all you want. Good luck and I look forward to your response to my question

[thegreekdog]

The problem PS, is that the second scenario rarely happens. Now, you may say it rarely happens because armed psychos don't target the Group Bs of the world.

[Phatscotty]

The problem PS, is that the second scenario rarely happens. Now, you may say it rarely happens because armed psychos don't target the Group Bs of the world.

okay, but the other problem, mass shootings. The best solution is to become group B.

We the people can and should tackle this issue ourselves.

[Bernie Sanders]

Phatts says:
Armed psycho enters group B of 50 people, all of which are carrying guns, all of them can defend themselves


What some psycho is going to walk into a police station in a major city? Yes, you are right the guy has to be psycho!

[Phatscotty]

Phatts says:
Armed psycho enters group B of 50 people, all of which are carrying guns, all of them can defend themselves


What some psycho is going to walk into a police station in a major city? Yes, you are right the guy has to be psycho!

Just as I expected.

Well, hey, if you don't mind to be seen bringing up a topic and then running away from the first challenge to it, that's on you and totes coo with me, I'll play my part.

[rishaed]

I can't wait for ordinary Americans to save us from the next terrorist attack.



And we want to arm teachers?

Hey it worked in France!
And i actually thought you would come up with some decent arguements on your own for once.
Oh well.

[Bernie Sanders]

Phatts says:
Armed psycho enters group B of 50 people, all of which are carrying guns, all of them can defend themselves


What some psycho is going to walk into a police station in a major city? Yes, you are right the guy has to be psycho!

Just as I expected.

Well, hey, if you don't mind to be seen bringing up a topic and then running away from the first challenge to it, that's on you and totes coo with me, I'll play my part.

You brought up the usual apples to oranges

I was raised with guns. I've been around people with guns and see the stupid sh!t they do. People panic in desperate situations. I can see 50 ordinary citizens responding to supposed gun shots noises and watching these clowns pulling out guns and shooting at the other "50" with guns.

[Bernie Sanders]

Ok Phatts, here we have a situation where everyone is armed. A sticky situation, I might add. A gun fight ensues and chaos rules the day.

Put a couple of terrorists in a room with 50 so-called patriots and the body count will be enormous.

[thegreekdog]

Not that I'll get an answer to this question, but what is your proposed solution to gun control Bernie?

[parker4s]

There is a huge difference between trained individuals with guns and just normal people with guns (as the video points to before). He actually ends up getting shot by law enforcement in the training scenario. He also shot a civilian, getting shot easily by the gunmen. I'm fine with highly trained individuals with guns, but just saying that arming people would stop things is a false pretense.

[thegreekdog]

There is a huge difference between trained individuals with guns and just normal people with guns (as the video points to before). He actually ends up getting shot by law enforcement in the training scenario. He also shot a civilian, getting shot easily by the gunmen. I'm fine with highly trained individuals with guns, but just saying that arming people would stop things is a false pretense.

Sure, but how do you explain the documentary video that Bernie just posted showing a bunch of presumably trained soldiers shooting each other?

[parker4s]

That is a Hollywood movie. People trained for disaster scenarios rarely shoot each other. I'm not disagreeing with Bernie? I'm agreeing that saying more people having guns will not solve the problem.

[Bernie Sanders]

Not that I'll get an answer to this question, but what is your proposed solution to gun control Bernie?

I don't believe in gun control, I believe in gun reform laws.

Why did the Republicans voted against having anyone on the "no-fly list" not be allowed to purchase guns? Why are we having Republicans be against instant background checks at gun shows?

I own guns, but there are people who should not own or buy guns. Those with dishonorable discharge from the military, mental illness and a history of being violent, should be strongly discourage to owning guns.

The issuance of concealed carry of guns is a bit lax in some states and there should be a federal standard. All polls have shown over 80% of Americans want sensible restrictions on people buying guns. Virginia is now NOT accepting 23 states with concealed carry, they say these states laws are too lax and are not recognizing anyone from those states to conceal carry guns.

http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/article_173cb220-0e32-5e3a-b97b-6a618b5e946e.html

[thegreekdog]

That is a Hollywood movie. People trained for disaster scenarios rarely shoot each other. I'm not disagreeing with Bernie? I'm agreeing that saying more people having guns will not solve the problem.

Sorry, I was making fun of Bernie for posting Inglorious Basterds as an example of gun violence.

[thegreekdog]

Not that I'll get an answer to this question, but what is your proposed solution to gun control Bernie?

I don't believe in gun control, I believe in gun reform laws.

Why did the Republicans voted against having anyone on the "no-fly list" not be allowed to purchase guns? Why are we having Republicans be against instant background checks at gun shows?

I own guns, but there are people who should not own or buy guns. Those with dishonorable discharge from the military, mental illness and a history of being violent, should be strongly discourage to owning guns.

The issuance of concealed carry of guns is a bit lax in some states and there should be a federal standard. All polls have shown over 80% of Americans want sensible restrictions on people buying guns. Virginia is now NOT accepting 23 states with concealed carry, they say these states laws are too lax and are not recognizing anyone from those states to conceal carry guns.

http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/article_173cb220-0e32-5e3a-b97b-6a618b5e946e.html

Okay, so if I parse this out, you want the following gun reform laws:

(1) Anyone on a no fly list cannot purchase a gun.
(2) Anyone purchasing a gun at a gun show must get a background check.
(3) No one with a dishonorable discharge from the military, mental illness, or a history of violence should own a gun.
(4) Tighter concealed carry laws.

As far as I can tell, none of these gun reform laws would have prevented San Bernandino or the shooting in Connecticut. So... something else maybe?

[Bernie Sanders]

Not that I'll get an answer to this question, but what is your proposed solution to gun control Bernie?

I don't believe in gun control, I believe in gun reform laws.

Why did the Republicans voted against having anyone on the "no-fly list" not be allowed to purchase guns? Why are we having Republicans be against instant background checks at gun shows?

I own guns, but there are people who should not own or buy guns. Those with dishonorable discharge from the military, mental illness and a history of being violent, should be strongly discourage to owning guns.

The issuance of concealed carry of guns is a bit lax in some states and there should be a federal standard. All polls have shown over 80% of Americans want sensible restrictions on people buying guns. Virginia is now NOT accepting 23 states with concealed carry, they say these states laws are too lax and are not recognizing anyone from those states to conceal carry guns.

http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/article_173cb220-0e32-5e3a-b97b-6a618b5e946e.html

Okay, so if I parse this out, you want the following gun reform laws:

(1) Anyone on a no fly list cannot purchase a gun.
(2) Anyone purchasing a gun at a gun show must get a background check.
(3) No one with a dishonorable discharge from the military, mental illness, or a history of violence should own a gun.
(4) Tighter concealed carry laws.

As far as I can tell, none of these gun reform laws would have prevented San Bernandino or the shooting in Connecticut. So... something else maybe?

There's so many guns floating around in America. We can never prevent a suicidal maniac from buying guns from the street and turning them on innocent people. Hopefully over time, the allure of guns will go away. Maybe , the Federal, state and local communities will institute a buy back program to soak up all the excess guns that lay around people's houses and this will help reduce the quantity of guns in this country. This could also help reduce suicide by guns.

What we can do though, make it a major crime to sell guns illegally in America. Make it a "LIFE IN JAIL" penalty. Make it known that you sell guns illegally, you will be rotting in jail for the rest of your worthless life. Most guns sold illegally to gang bangers in Chicago come from other States with lenient or no background checks on buyers.

[/]

Are guns still technologically relevant as a primary self-defense tool?

I have a feeling that due to pop-culture such as James Bond or old westerns, most of us picture guns as being this sort of point and click instakill. In real life though, unless you're a legendary sharpshooter that can hit the head or knee every time, people don't just drop from getting shot a few times. Historically, gun duels often ended with both parties getting shot, with collateral damage to spectators to boot, and that's when you were both there specifically knowing just to shoot each other. You can look up plenty of stories where people have continued to fight on with dozens of gunshot wounds.

On the other hand, more modern products such as stun guns are pretty much guaranteed to lay anyone down flat instantly, even if they're wearing a bulletproof vest.

[Bernie Sanders]

Are guns still technologically relevant as a primary self-defense tool?

I have a feeling that due to pop-culture such as James Bond or old westerns, most of us picture guns as being this sort of point and click instakill. In real life though, unless you're a legendary sharpshooter that can hit the head or knee every time, people don't just drop from getting shot a few times. Historically, gun duels often ended with both parties getting shot, with collateral damage to spectators to boot, and that's when you were both there specifically knowing just to shoot each other. You can look up plenty of stories where people have continued to fight on with dozens of gunshot wounds.

On the other hand, more modern products such as stun guns are pretty much guaranteed to lay anyone down flat instantly, even if they're wearing a bulletproof vest.

http://www.thehomesecuritysuperstore.com/self-defense-stun-guns-c=35

[thegreekdog]

Not that I'll get an answer to this question, but what is your proposed solution to gun control Bernie?

I don't believe in gun control, I believe in gun reform laws.

Why did the Republicans voted against having anyone on the "no-fly list" not be allowed to purchase guns? Why are we having Republicans be against instant background checks at gun shows?

I own guns, but there are people who should not own or buy guns. Those with dishonorable discharge from the military, mental illness and a history of being violent, should be strongly discourage to owning guns.

The issuance of concealed carry of guns is a bit lax in some states and there should be a federal standard. All polls have shown over 80% of Americans want sensible restrictions on people buying guns. Virginia is now NOT accepting 23 states with concealed carry, they say these states laws are too lax and are not recognizing anyone from those states to conceal carry guns.

http://www.richmond.com/news/virginia/government-politics/article_173cb220-0e32-5e3a-b97b-6a618b5e946e.html

Okay, so if I parse this out, you want the following gun reform laws:

(1) Anyone on a no fly list cannot purchase a gun.
(2) Anyone purchasing a gun at a gun show must get a background check.
(3) No one with a dishonorable discharge from the military, mental illness, or a history of violence should own a gun.
(4) Tighter concealed carry laws.

As far as I can tell, none of these gun reform laws would have prevented San Bernandino or the shooting in Connecticut. So... something else maybe?

There's so many guns floating around in America. We can never prevent a suicidal maniac from buying guns from the street and turning them on innocent people. Hopefully over time, the allure of guns will go away. Maybe , the Federal, state and local communities will institute a buy back program to soak up all the excess guns that lay around people's houses and this will help reduce the quantity of guns in this country. This could also help reduce suicide by guns.

What we can do though, make it a major crime to sell guns illegally in America. Make it a "LIFE IN JAIL" penalty. Make it known that you sell guns illegally, you will be rotting in jail for the rest of your worthless life. Most guns sold illegally to gang bangers in Chicago come from other States with lenient or no background checks on buyers.

I admittedly don't know the penalties for selling guns illegally, but mandatory minimum sentences seem like something the real Bernie Sanders would be against.

In any event, it is already illegal to buy guns for use by people who aren't allowed to own guns (i.e. strawman purchases are illegal).

A buyback program sounds great (it worked in The Wire!), but I wonder how many criminals or psychopaths will sell their illegally obtained guns to the government.

So... something else? Trying to make sure we do "everything we can to prevent another [insert mass shooting]" because so far everything you've proposed and most gun control advocates have proposed wouldn't actually have prevented much of what has already happened. Even if we institute all these various laws, we STILL won't have the same laws as the "safest" gun control countries. We'll STILL be behind the European countries. So, if you want to solve for these problems, you need to ban guns, confiscate all currently held firearms, and ban the manufacture of guns.

[Bernie Sanders]

Greekdog said: So, if you want to solve for these problems, you need to ban guns, confiscate all currently held firearms, and ban the manufacture of guns.
Sorry, that ain't going to happen.

We have a proliferation of guns in America and we have too many mentally ill and deranged individuals. Let the mass killings continue, it's what we do best. The solutions have been on the table for decades, but the NRA runs the Republican Party.

http://thedailybanter.com/2015/04/the-new-president-of-the-national-rifle-association-is-predictably-awful/

[hotfire]

Feel free to address this question in a way that supports your claim, I'm gonna bet you will ignore it.

Armed psycho enters group A of 50 people, none of which are carrying guns, none of which can defend themselves
Armed psycho enters group B of 50 people, all of which are carrying guns, all of them can defend themselves
which group fares better, and why?

Guns can be weapons for killing, guns can also be defense tools to prevent from being killed. When you make a premise based solely on guns, you are kinda saying that it's forks that make people fat and pencils that misspell words. We all know that isn't the case, but sure, you can make the case all you want. Good luck and I look forward to your response to my question

problem in scenario 2 is crossfire from all 50 people opening up at same time killing people too...and also not know who the real bad guy is

[thegreekdog]

Greekdog said: So, if you want to solve for these problems, you need to ban guns, confiscate all currently held firearms, and ban the manufacture of guns.
Sorry, that ain't going to happen.

We have a proliferation of guns in America and we have too many mentally ill and deranged individuals. Let the mass killings continue, it's what we do best. The solutions have been on the table for decades, but the NRA runs the Republican Party.

http://thedailybanter.com/2015/04/the-new-president-of-the-national-rifle-association-is-predictably-awful/

So, good to know that you don't have a valid or effective solution! Thanks for proving my point.