Conquer Club

http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates

After repeated warnings to Russia about their SU-24 fighter jets trespassing over Turkey airspace today and in the last 30 days, Turkey has shot down a Russian SU-24 over Turkey airspace.


Putin responded that Russia was stabbed in the back.

Really? Russia has constantly attacked Free Syrian Army units and moderate Syrian rebels with indiscriminate bombings all along Turkey's border.

Two Russian pilots ejected from the fighter jet, with one reported dead and in the hands of moderate Syrian rebels.

I thought this was going to be about an actual wild turkey flying into a jet.

Well this looks like it was a real...

Turkey shoot.

YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Nice looking plane. Shame to shoot it down.

On the other hand, a dead Russian is a good thing.

I'm torn.

Bernie Sanders wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates

After repeated warnings to Russia about their SU-24 fighter jets trespassing over Turkey airspace today and in the last 30 days, Turkey has shot down a Russian SU-24 over Turkey airspace.

Probably the same will happen with Turkish plane Trespassing into Syrian/Iraqi airspace eventually... Eye for an Eye. After all Russia will not forget or forgive this.

Bernie Sanders wrote:Putin responded that Russia was stabbed in the back.

Well we all know where ISIS is selling the oil they are producing, or better said who is helping them all the time.
Siding With ISIL? Turkey Spotted Dealing With Radical Islamists in Syria

Bernie Sanders wrote:Really? Russia has constantly attacked Free Syrian Army units and moderate Syrian rebels with indiscriminate bombings all along Turkey's border.

There is no such thing as Free Syrian Army. They are only ISIS that accept US money

Bernie Sanders wrote:Two Russian pilots ejected from the fighter jet, with one reported dead and in the hands of moderate Syrian rebels.

I presume the faith of the Russian pilots will determine the Russian reaction.

P.S. Su-24M primary role is as frontline bomber, not as fighter jet.

Dukasaur wrote:On the other hand, a dead Russian is a good thing.

Dead Russian is good Russian talk... You know someone can say the same for someone like you

GoranZ wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:http://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2015/nov/24/russian-jet-downed-by-turkish-planes-near-syrian-border-live-updates

After repeated warnings to Russia about their SU-24 fighter jets trespassing over Turkey airspace today and in the last 30 days, Turkey has shot down a Russian SU-24 over Turkey airspace.

Probably the same will happen with Turkish plane Trespassing into Syrian/Iraqi airspace eventually... Eye for an Eye. After all Russia will not forget or forgive this.

Bernie Sanders wrote:Putin responded that Russia was stabbed in the back.

Well we all know where ISIS is selling the oil they are producing, or better said who is helping them all the time.
Siding With ISIL? Turkey Spotted Dealing With Radical Islamists in Syria

Bernie Sanders wrote:Really? Russia has constantly attacked Free Syrian Army units and moderate Syrian rebels with indiscriminate bombings all along Turkey's border.

There is no such thing as Free Syrian Army. They are only ISIS that accept US money

Bernie Sanders wrote:Two Russian pilots ejected from the fighter jet, with one reported dead and in the hands of moderate Syrian rebels.

I presume the faith of the Russian pilots will determine the Russian reaction.

P.S. Su-24M primary role is as frontline bomber, not as fighter jet.

Dukasaur wrote:On the other hand, a dead Russian is a good thing.

Dead Russian is good Russian talk... You know someone can say the same for someone like you

We already know where your sympathies and political rhetoric come from.

"Probably the same will happen with Turkish plane Trespassing into Syrian/Iraqi airspace eventually... Eye for an Eye. After all Russia will not forget or forgive this."
Russia can not afford shooting down a Turkish aircraft. Russian's aircraft will be overwhelmed by Turkish F-16s and guess what Russia will be eliminated in the Syrian skies.

Bernie Sanders wrote:We already know where your sympathies and political rhetoric come from.

"Probably the same will happen with Turkish plane Trespassing into Syrian/Iraqi airspace eventually... Eye for an Eye. After all Russia will not forget or forgive this."
Russia can not afford shooting down a Turkish aircraft. Russian's aircraft will be overwhelmed by Turkish F-16s and guess what Russia will be eliminated in the Syrian skies.

Time will tell who will have the last lough

Bernie Sanders wrote:Two Russian pilots ejected from the fighter jet, with one reported dead and in the hands of moderate Syrian rebels.

I think that Geneva Convention strictly bans attacks on persons parachuting from an aircraft in distress.
According to the protocol, if the person in distress is not acting in a hostile manner, he is to be given the chance to surrender after reaching the ground. Both Russian pilots were in this situation.

A hypothesis if you will what is the dominate religion in turky, and what better way to break a coalition possibility than to shoot down that plane, the question is what was that plane doing there? Time for everyone to come clean and decide if its better to be cock of the walk or kick the shot out of each or Isis or whatever they want to call themselves.

Legal experts say that shooting down a plane on suspicion of an airspace violation is a very extreme and strange measure, and particularly unjustified given that Russia showed no aggression towards Turkey.
Russian Fighter Jet Posed No Threat to Turkey, So Why Shoot it Down?


Russian fighter jets will now accompany all of Moscow's missions against Islamic State targets in Syria, the General Staff said. Prior to Tuesday's attack, Russian strike aircraft were conducting their missions without air cover.
Russia Deploys Maritime Air Defense After Jet Shot Down Over Syria.

I presume its too late now... Turkey believes Russian pilots still alive, seeking their release: government official

Now it starts, Turkish or Syrian fighters broke the Geneva convention, by killing at least one of those pilots while he was parachuting with no defense, get ready folks unless someone can calm Putin down, not the UN OR NATO, can say Russia is the bad guy here. Why isn't the news reporting this part of what is going on?

This attack was such a vile outrage that even the western chattering classes are lining up behind Russia on this one. From today's Independent out of London -

Turkey is getting desperate. Under President Recep Tayip Erdogan and his party, the Justice and Development Party (AKP), its policies toward the conflict in Syria over the past four years have been misguided and costly. When conflict broke out in 2011, Ankara mistakenly under-estimated the strength of the Assad regime and supported hardline Islamist groups seeking its downfall. In the process, Turkey also marginalised the Kurds and alienated regional powers like Iran.

Turkey’s regional rival, Iran, is a key player which can no longer be ignored by the West. Not only does the pro-Assad alliance now have Russian support firmly on its side, but the international community is no longer focused on defeating the regime – instead, it is concerned with defeating jihadist groups like Isis.

The shift in focus is a significant drawback for Erdogan.

Turkey has no interest in the peaceful settlement to the conflict in Syria that world powers are negotiating. As it gets desperate, Turkey will attempt to bring focus back on the Assad regime and reverse the losses it has made both in Syria and geopolitically. The decision to bring down the Russian jet is, therefore, likely to have had other political factors behind it - particularly since the jet, as far as we know, posed no immediate threat to Turkey’s national security.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tur ... 47161.html

This was probably the diplomatic miscalculation of the century by Turkey which has just done more to Deep-Six the faltering U.S. intervention than anyone. With Syrian, Russian, and Iranian forces on a roll politically and militarily this will portend a possible realignment of the key players in the region. Will the Kurds, who have been getting pounded by the Turks, continue to support the U.S.? If the Kurds defect to Russia it's game-over for whatever shred of influence the U.S. still had in Iraq. Tehran all but owns Baghdad now and the U.S. was dependent on its influence in Erbil to continue to have a say in Iraq.

Slate concludes that ...

All in all, this was a good day for the Assad regime.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... ar_on.html

Once we finish kicking the west out then it will be the time for Putin to turn his attention to Turkey. For now Russia needs to do exactly what they're doing and what they do better than anyone - patience, playing the role of Cheshire Cat. In a few months it will be time to act. And when it is, I hope Ankara gets leveled.

saxitoxin wrote:This attack was such a vile outrage that even the western chattering classes are lining up behind Russia on this one. From today's Independent out of London -

Turkey is getting desperate. Under President Recep Tayip Erdogan and his party, the Justice and Development Party (AKP), its policies toward the conflict in Syria over the past four years have been misguided and costly. When conflict broke out in 2011, Ankara mistakenly under-estimated the strength of the Assad regime and supported hardline Islamist groups seeking its downfall. In the process, Turkey also marginalised the Kurds and alienated regional powers like Iran.

Turkey’s regional rival, Iran, is a key player which can no longer be ignored by the West. Not only does the pro-Assad alliance now have Russian support firmly on its side, but the international community is no longer focused on defeating the regime – instead, it is concerned with defeating jihadist groups like Isis.

The shift in focus is a significant drawback for Erdogan.

Turkey has no interest in the peaceful settlement to the conflict in Syria that world powers are negotiating. As it gets desperate, Turkey will attempt to bring focus back on the Assad regime and reverse the losses it has made both in Syria and geopolitically. The decision to bring down the Russian jet is, therefore, likely to have had other political factors behind it - particularly since the jet, as far as we know, posed no immediate threat to Turkey’s national security.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tur ... 47161.html

This was probably the diplomatic miscalculation of the century by Turkey which has just done more to Deep-Six the faltering U.S. intervention than anyone. With Syrian, Russian, and Iranian forces on a roll politically and militarily this will portend a possible realignment of the key players in the region. Will the Kurds, who have been getting pounded by the Turks, continue to support the U.S.? If the Kurds defect to Russia it's game-over for whatever shred of influence the U.S. still had in Iraq. Tehran all but owns Baghdad now and the U.S. was dependent on its influence in Erbil to continue to have a say in Iraq.

Slate concludes that ...

All in all, this was a good day for the Assad regime.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... ar_on.html

Once we finish kicking the west out then it will be the time for Putin to turn his attention to Turkey. For now Russia needs to do exactly what they're doing and what they do better than anyone - patience, playing the role of Cheshire Cat. In a few months it will be time to act. And when it is, I hope Ankara gets leveled.

My, my, my...all this Saxi's strutting around like Putin.

Turkey is part of NATO, any attack on Turkey will result in a very vicious, but short war.

Leveling Ankara, really now Saxi?

Bernie Sanders wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:This attack was such a vile outrage that even the western chattering classes are lining up behind Russia on this one. From today's Independent out of London -

Turkey is getting desperate. Under President Recep Tayip Erdogan and his party, the Justice and Development Party (AKP), its policies toward the conflict in Syria over the past four years have been misguided and costly. When conflict broke out in 2011, Ankara mistakenly under-estimated the strength of the Assad regime and supported hardline Islamist groups seeking its downfall. In the process, Turkey also marginalised the Kurds and alienated regional powers like Iran.

Turkey’s regional rival, Iran, is a key player which can no longer be ignored by the West. Not only does the pro-Assad alliance now have Russian support firmly on its side, but the international community is no longer focused on defeating the regime – instead, it is concerned with defeating jihadist groups like Isis.

The shift in focus is a significant drawback for Erdogan.

Turkey has no interest in the peaceful settlement to the conflict in Syria that world powers are negotiating. As it gets desperate, Turkey will attempt to bring focus back on the Assad regime and reverse the losses it has made both in Syria and geopolitically. The decision to bring down the Russian jet is, therefore, likely to have had other political factors behind it - particularly since the jet, as far as we know, posed no immediate threat to Turkey’s national security.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tur ... 47161.html

This was probably the diplomatic miscalculation of the century by Turkey which has just done more to Deep-Six the faltering U.S. intervention than anyone. With Syrian, Russian, and Iranian forces on a roll politically and militarily this will portend a possible realignment of the key players in the region. Will the Kurds, who have been getting pounded by the Turks, continue to support the U.S.? If the Kurds defect to Russia it's game-over for whatever shred of influence the U.S. still had in Iraq. Tehran all but owns Baghdad now and the U.S. was dependent on its influence in Erbil to continue to have a say in Iraq.

Slate concludes that ...

All in all, this was a good day for the Assad regime.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... ar_on.html

Once we finish kicking the west out then it will be the time for Putin to turn his attention to Turkey. For now Russia needs to do exactly what they're doing and what they do better than anyone - patience, playing the role of Cheshire Cat. In a few months it will be time to act. And when it is, I hope Ankara gets leveled.

My, my, my...all this Saxi's strutting around like Putin.

Turkey is part of NATO, any attack on Turkey will result in a very vicious, but short war.

Leveling Ankara, really now Saxi?

LMAO. You seriously think the U.S. will sacrifice Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, and Miami to protect Gaziantep? Go wave the flag and sing Garth Brooks songs somewhere else. Your detachment from reality is so total you had to abandon the other thread to start this sub-thread and it ain't helping.

Turkey supplies ISIS, buys ISIS oil and instead of Turkey fighting ISIS they fight the Kurds who are actually fighting ISIS.
A bunch of French get murdered in a terrorist attack and everyone sends tweets, cries and acts all sympathetic. The Russians get twice the number of innocent civilians murdered by the same butchers who pulled off the Paris attacks and the same people who were consoling France cheer and yell "Yeah! Dead Russians!"

You people should be ashamed of yourselves, especially you Bernie Sanders you POS.

Russia is not the fucking enemy you idiot morons. The cold war is long dead and gone and the old debunked "domino theory" long since exposed as the bullshit it always was.

The fucking retards especially in government are going to lead us into a fucking nightmare all because too many people want to hold onto old prejudices and hate that now only exists in our minds.

patches70 wrote:Turkey supplies ISIS, buys ISIS oil and instead of Turkey fighting ISIS they fight the Kurds who are actually fighting ISIS.
A bunch of French get murdered in a terrorist attack and everyone sends tweets, cries and acts all sympathetic. The Russians get twice the number of innocent civilians murdered by the same butchers who pulled off the Paris attacks and the same people who were consoling France cheer and yell "Yeah! Dead Russians!"

You people should be ashamed of yourselves, especially you Bernie Sanders you POS.

Russia is not the fucking enemy you idiot morons. The cold war is long dead and gone and the old debunked "domino theory" long since exposed as the bullshit it always was.

The fucking retards especially in government are going to lead us into a fucking nightmare all because too many people want to hold onto old prejudices and hate that now only exists in our minds.

Well said patches, I think?

Turkey is not hitting Iragi Kurds, but are hitting the Syrian Kurds who support Turkey's Kurds. Yes, it's a messy situation. Yes, some Turkey war profiteers were buying oil from the same oil tankers that we are blowing up now.

I don't think anyone was celebrating Russian civilians in the WEST.

Turkey wants Assad out, period! Damn it guys, it was Syrian Tyrant Assad who started this whole war and murdered 300,000 cicvilians. It started as a peaceful demostration for a more democratic process in Syria. Assad turned the army on his own people and still uses barrel bombing against civilians. This is what caused the huge Syrian refugee problems in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.

Russia is dropping bombs on the Free Syrian Army and the moderate rebels. It was not until the Russian civilian aircraft got shot down over the Sinai, did Russia start concentrating their fire power in ISIS. But, Russia is still hitting the Free Syrian Army and moderate rebels.

Russia came to Syria to "only" support Assad and Assad only.

patches70 wrote:Russia is not the fucking enemy you idiot morons. The cold war is long dead and gone and the old debunked "domino theory" long since exposed as the bullshit it always was.

The fucking retards especially in government are going to lead us into a fucking nightmare all because too many people want to hold onto old prejudices and hate that now only exists in our minds.

This was a war crime, plain and simple. Russia has an inherent, legal right of self-defense, and an actual capability to do so -



And if the U.S. government dares to interfere with Russia's legal rights, it can stop worrying about the 2016 election because there won't be any voters -

I don't consider Russia an "enemy"... but they're certainly not an ally.

I do think US will intervene if NATO does.

If US fails to support NATO you ca kiss the whole treaty goodbye.

Bernie Sanders wrote:

patches70 wrote:Turkey supplies ISIS, buys ISIS oil and instead of Turkey fighting ISIS they fight the Kurds who are actually fighting ISIS.
A bunch of French get murdered in a terrorist attack and everyone sends tweets, cries and acts all sympathetic. The Russians get twice the number of innocent civilians murdered by the same butchers who pulled off the Paris attacks and the same people who were consoling France cheer and yell "Yeah! Dead Russians!"

You people should be ashamed of yourselves, especially you Bernie Sanders you POS.

Russia is not the fucking enemy you idiot morons. The cold war is long dead and gone and the old debunked "domino theory" long since exposed as the bullshit it always was.

The fucking retards especially in government are going to lead us into a fucking nightmare all because too many people want to hold onto old prejudices and hate that now only exists in our minds.

Well said patches, I think?

Turkey is not hitting Iragi Kurds, but are hitting the Syrian Kurds who support Turkey's Kurds. Yes, it's a messy situation. Yes, some Turkey war profiteers were buying oil from the same oil tankers that we are blowing up now.

I don't think anyone was celebrating Russian civilians in the WEST.

Turkey wants Assad out, period! Damn it guys, it was Syrian Tyrant Assad who started this whole war and murdered 300,000 cicvilians. It started as a peaceful demostration for a more democratic process in Syria. Assad turned the army on his own people and still uses barrel bombing against civilians. This is what caused the huge Syrian refugee problems in Jordan, Lebanon and Turkey.

Russia is dropping bombs on the Free Syrian Army and the moderate rebels. It was not until the Russian civilian aircraft got shot down over the Sinai, did Russia start concentrating their fire power in ISIS. But, Russia is still hitting the Free Syrian Army and moderate rebels.

Russia came to Syria to "only" support Assad and Assad only.

Stop just making shit up. Your fantasies of what you wish were happening are derailing the threads. Either read a fucking newspaper or keep silent.

But the core of his accusations—that Turkey has at best played a conflicted role in the battle against ISIL—is true. It’s just that the West has resisted saying so in order to keep Turkish president Recep Tayyip Erdogan on side.

Turkey has been crucial to ISIL in other ways: It has served as a gateway for ISIL cash, people, and materiel into Syria. After bombing attacks in Turkey, Erdogan reversed a prior ban on US bombing runs from Turkish soil—but only on the condition that no one got in the way of Turkish forces bombing and shelling Kurds in Iraq and Syria. (Pro-western Kurdish forces have carried out almost the only cohesive ground offensives against ISIL, but Erdogan fears their support for Kurdish activism in Turkey.)

http://qz.com/558291/putin-is-accusing- ... tly-right/

Bernie Sanders wrote:Russia is still hitting the Free Syrian Army and moderate rebels.

That's fucking right. And if the McCain Moderates though they were in trouble before, they're in for a world of hurt come tomorrow. Every ounce of what should happen to Turkey will be taken out on what's left of the Sham Legion and the Alwiya al-Furqan. There will be no McCain Moderates for you to worry about by the end of the week.

saxitoxin wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:This attack was such a vile outrage that even the western chattering classes are lining up behind Russia on this one. From today's Independent out of London -

Turkey is getting desperate. Under President Recep Tayip Erdogan and his party, the Justice and Development Party (AKP), its policies toward the conflict in Syria over the past four years have been misguided and costly. When conflict broke out in 2011, Ankara mistakenly under-estimated the strength of the Assad regime and supported hardline Islamist groups seeking its downfall. In the process, Turkey also marginalised the Kurds and alienated regional powers like Iran.

Turkey’s regional rival, Iran, is a key player which can no longer be ignored by the West. Not only does the pro-Assad alliance now have Russian support firmly on its side, but the international community is no longer focused on defeating the regime – instead, it is concerned with defeating jihadist groups like Isis.

The shift in focus is a significant drawback for Erdogan.

Turkey has no interest in the peaceful settlement to the conflict in Syria that world powers are negotiating. As it gets desperate, Turkey will attempt to bring focus back on the Assad regime and reverse the losses it has made both in Syria and geopolitically. The decision to bring down the Russian jet is, therefore, likely to have had other political factors behind it - particularly since the jet, as far as we know, posed no immediate threat to Turkey’s national security.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tur ... 47161.html

This was probably the diplomatic miscalculation of the century by Turkey which has just done more to Deep-Six the faltering U.S. intervention than anyone. With Syrian, Russian, and Iranian forces on a roll politically and militarily this will portend a possible realignment of the key players in the region. Will the Kurds, who have been getting pounded by the Turks, continue to support the U.S.? If the Kurds defect to Russia it's game-over for whatever shred of influence the U.S. still had in Iraq. Tehran all but owns Baghdad now and the U.S. was dependent on its influence in Erbil to continue to have a say in Iraq.

Slate concludes that ...

All in all, this was a good day for the Assad regime.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... ar_on.html

Once we finish kicking the west out then it will be the time for Putin to turn his attention to Turkey. For now Russia needs to do exactly what they're doing and what they do better than anyone - patience, playing the role of Cheshire Cat. In a few months it will be time to act. And when it is, I hope Ankara gets leveled.

My, my, my...all this Saxi's strutting around like Putin.

Turkey is part of NATO, any attack on Turkey will result in a very vicious, but short war.

Leveling Ankara, really now Saxi?

LMAO. You seriously think the U.S. will sacrifice Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, and Miami to protect Gaziantep? Go wave the flag and sing Garth Brooks songs somewhere else. Your detachment from reality is so total you had to abandon the other thread to start this sub-thread and it ain't helping.

I'm not going to take your drivel seriously Saxi.

Any attack on Turkey will invoke the NATO charter. You know Saxi? Any attack on any NATO member country is an attack on all member countries.

Oh' Putin may take his shoe off and yell that he will bury us all, but that's all that's going to happen.

Bernie Sanders wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:

saxitoxin wrote:This attack was such a vile outrage that even the western chattering classes are lining up behind Russia on this one. From today's Independent out of London -

Turkey is getting desperate. Under President Recep Tayip Erdogan and his party, the Justice and Development Party (AKP), its policies toward the conflict in Syria over the past four years have been misguided and costly. When conflict broke out in 2011, Ankara mistakenly under-estimated the strength of the Assad regime and supported hardline Islamist groups seeking its downfall. In the process, Turkey also marginalised the Kurds and alienated regional powers like Iran.

Turkey’s regional rival, Iran, is a key player which can no longer be ignored by the West. Not only does the pro-Assad alliance now have Russian support firmly on its side, but the international community is no longer focused on defeating the regime – instead, it is concerned with defeating jihadist groups like Isis.

The shift in focus is a significant drawback for Erdogan.

Turkey has no interest in the peaceful settlement to the conflict in Syria that world powers are negotiating. As it gets desperate, Turkey will attempt to bring focus back on the Assad regime and reverse the losses it has made both in Syria and geopolitically. The decision to bring down the Russian jet is, therefore, likely to have had other political factors behind it - particularly since the jet, as far as we know, posed no immediate threat to Turkey’s national security.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tur ... 47161.html

This was probably the diplomatic miscalculation of the century by Turkey which has just done more to Deep-Six the faltering U.S. intervention than anyone. With Syrian, Russian, and Iranian forces on a roll politically and militarily this will portend a possible realignment of the key players in the region. Will the Kurds, who have been getting pounded by the Turks, continue to support the U.S.? If the Kurds defect to Russia it's game-over for whatever shred of influence the U.S. still had in Iraq. Tehran all but owns Baghdad now and the U.S. was dependent on its influence in Erbil to continue to have a say in Iraq.

Slate concludes that ...

All in all, this was a good day for the Assad regime.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/ ... ar_on.html

Once we finish kicking the west out then it will be the time for Putin to turn his attention to Turkey. For now Russia needs to do exactly what they're doing and what they do better than anyone - patience, playing the role of Cheshire Cat. In a few months it will be time to act. And when it is, I hope Ankara gets leveled.

My, my, my...all this Saxi's strutting around like Putin.

Turkey is part of NATO, any attack on Turkey will result in a very vicious, but short war.

Leveling Ankara, really now Saxi?

LMAO. You seriously think the U.S. will sacrifice Chicago, Los Angeles, New York, Philadelphia, and Miami to protect Gaziantep? Go wave the flag and sing Garth Brooks songs somewhere else. Your detachment from reality is so total you had to abandon the other thread to start this sub-thread and it ain't helping.

I'm not going to take your drivel seriously Saxi.

Any attack on Turkey will invoke the NATO charter. You know Saxi? Any attack on any NATO member country is an attack on all member countries.

1 - What police department "enforces" the NATO charter? No one. The NATO charter depends on the willingness of its members to participate. As we've recently seen they're not all that willing in exceptionally less serious circumstances -

NBC’s Andrea Mitchell said French President Francois Hollande “knows NATO will not respond” to the Paris attacks and so Hollande has reached out to Vladimir Putin to create this “unusual alliance of convenience.”

Appearing on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” on Thursday, Mitchell said, “NATO has been asleep. We saw NATO’s lack of response over and over again.”

http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/19/nbcs- ... ato-video/

You are completely out-of-touch if you seriously think any U.S. president will see the 25 largest U.S. cities turned into sheets glass and 60 million Americans killed to protect a a bunch of goat herders who are backing ISIS because there's a treaty that says he has to.

2. The NATO charter is bound by the Vienna Convention's provisions of jus cogens:

A treaty is void if ... it conflicts with a peremptory norm of general international law.

If Turkey asks Hungary and Rumania to race throw themselves in front of a speeding locomotive, wanna bet how fast they'll invoke jus cogens to say the Turkish shoot-down was illegal and they're not obligated by Article 5? Once all the NATO countries that share a border with Russia and would be first to get smashed have splintered off, will the U.S. really charge head-on into the fire? What is happening is the classic dilemma Eisenhower and Kennedy predicted before they adopted NSC-68 - that the U.S. may be faced with an option between "anhiliation and capitulation." Things have just spiraled out of Washington's control. And, as all observers, except you, have noted, Turkey just made the mistake of its history.

Bernie Sanders wrote:[
Russia came to Syria to "only" support Assad and Assad only.

Get this through your thick head, dumbass, IT'S NONE OF THE US' BUSINESS!

Let me repeat that for you Bernie "flag wavin'" Sanders, it is none of the United States concern who rules Syria or what is going on in their internal affairs. It is not the US' place to say "This government has to go because we say so". Syria, Assad are not threats to the US national security. If you for some reason believe that Syria is some sort of threat to the US then by all means, enlighten us exactly how.

As to the supposed altruistic intervention, Pfffftttt. That's bullshit. There are countries all over the world murdering people in a lot more black and white and far less muddled way that what is going on in Syria. We do nothing. Why are we so gun ho to get rid of Assad? It has not a damn thing to do with this "murdering his own people" bullshit.
Assad is fighting ISIS, more power to him.

If the Tea party started trying to overthrow the USG and was dead set on executing every Democrat they could get their hands on, would you be spouting nonsense about how the USG was "killing her own civilians" as you know what would happen to such a Tea Party insurrection? Of course, in the case of a Tea Party insurrection you'd be right there in the public calling for all those involved in the Tea Party insurrection to be executed via drone attack or any other means and you wouldn't bat an eye at anyone else protesting you for murdering your own citizens.


Give me a fucking break, not even you can be so naive. IF the USG came out tomorrow and said the sky was blue I'd have no choice but to go outside to check for myself. That's how low the credibility of any USG reports go and is the extent of the amounts of grains of salt any rational human being should take when exposed to the "this guy did this" or "that regime is doing that" that is reported because the USG and US politicians have exposed themselves as complete and utter liars. Anyone who takes the word of any of these people is a fucking idiot and anyone who tries to use the words of said people to justify their own brand of murdering is nothing more than a useful idiot.
Which one are you Bernie? Are you a useful idiot or just an idiot?

Saxi spouts off:

You are completely out-of-touch if you seriously think any U.S. president will see the 25 largest U.S. cities turned into sheets glass and 60 million Americans killed to protect a a bunch of goat herders who are backing ISIS because there's a treaty that says he has to.

Putin and even the Russian Generals will not start a thermo-nuclear war over a Russian plane that has trespass over Turkey airspace.

Get real Saxi!