Conquer Club

------Happy 128th Birthday to one of the Greatest Defensive Tacticians ever. Erich Von Manstein. Rommel(The Desert Fox)'s B-Day was Nov.15th. One of the best offensive.Like Rommel, He was no nazi. Like his book "Lost Victories", tells of the military aspect of the war. His fights in the war room with Hitler(who Manstien thought was a crazy fool ). Wiki left some key things out. At his war crimes trail, his counterparts spoke on his behalf. Churchill,Eisenhower,Zuchkov. I think Rommel would have had been treated the same by them. Wiki left out. After he served his time in prison for war crimes. Manstien was giving the job of making NATO's defense plan. In case of Soviet Warsaw Pact invasion. Thanks to his "Mobile Defense Strategy" against the Red Army in 1943/44. You have to love the computer age. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion).

ConfederateSS wrote:------Happy 128th Birthday to one of the Greatest Defensive Tacticians ever. Erich Von Manstein. Rommel(The Desert Fox)'s B-Day was Nov.15th. One of the best offensive.Like Rommel, He was no nazi. Like his book "Lost Victories", tells of the military aspect of the war. His fights in the war room with Hitler(who Manstien thought was a crazy fool ). Wiki left some key things out. At his war crimes trail, his counterparts spoke on his behalf. Churchill,Eisenhower,Zuchkov. I think Rommel would have had been treated the same by them. Wiki left out. After he served his time in prison for war crimes. Manstien was giving the job of making NATO's defense plan. In case of Soviet Warsaw Pact invasion. Thanks to his "Mobile Defense Strategy" against the Red Army in 1943/44. You have to love the computer age. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion).

Leave it the person flying a Confederate Flag which is still used at KKK rallies and other NAZI events in America, to defend a killer of innocent civilians during World War II



Manstein's trial was held in Hamburg from 23 August to 19 December 1949. He faced seventeen charges covering activities such as authorizing or permitting the killing, deportation, and maltreatment of Jews and other civilians; maltreating and killing prisoners of war; illegally compelling prisoners to do dangerous work and work of a military nature; ordering the execution of Soviet political commissars in compliance with Hitler's Commissar Order; and issuing scorched earth orders while in retreat in the Crimea.

War crimes aside, he was a brilliant tactician. Definitely top 5 on the German side.

Dukasaur wrote:War crimes aside, he was a brilliant tactician. Definitely top 5 on the German side.

They lost.

http://list25.com/25-of-historys-deadliest-dictators/

Calling assholes, great military tacticians?

Let's all bow down to Stalin, Mao, Attila and other tyrants! f*ck civilian casualties, the final victory will make me GREAT!

c'mon bernie...
Dresden? Hiroshima & Nagasaki?

riskllama wrote:c'mon bernie...
Dresden? Hiroshima & Nagasaki?

Total war against these tyrants who did not respect human life was the root cause of the fire bombings and atomic bomb blasts. We did not start these wars, we just finished them to their obvious conclusions.

DoomYoshi wrote:Cassino was the biggest American failure.

Yes it was, but we won the war. All battles are won and lost or a draw, but the final victors can claim victory.

--------He was actually brought up on 18 charges of war crimes. He didn't even try to defend himself. He spoke on behalf of his men under him. Who were on trial. Being a snob ,doesn't make him a nazi. He saved his own Jewish officers who were not 100% German from the nazis. He was a Prussian aristocrat. Who may have been from Polish Royalty in his family's past. Like Robert E.Lee , Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson and Erwin Rommel. They were respected by their enemies. Because they would win battles ,so out numbered,and under supplied. Time and time again. Not to many US Generals(if any) were respected by their enemies.
--------Yes,The USA won. The winners do write the history books. Yet,Hawaii is owned by Japanese investors.How Ironic. Four out of the eight banks. That control The US Federal Reserve. Are owned by foreign governments. The US rebuilt Germany and Japan after the war. But let America turn into dust. America won. Or did we?
--------Like Nato went to Von Manstein. The USA had no trouble in letting Wernher Von Braun a nazi. Come to America,become a US citizen. Lead the US space program. BLAH!BLAH!BLAH!...OH! yeah. I forgot you are a Socialist. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion).

Bernie Sanders wrote:

riskllama wrote:c'mon bernie...
Dresden? Hiroshima & Nagasaki?

Total war against these tyrants who did not respect human life was the root cause of the fire bombings and atomic bomb blasts. We did not start these wars, we just finished them to their obvious conclusions.

Ah... Hypocracy from a Politician. Refreshing

rishaed wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:

riskllama wrote:c'mon bernie...
Dresden? Hiroshima & Nagasaki?

Total war against these tyrants who did not respect human life was the root cause of the fire bombings and atomic bomb blasts. We did not start these wars, we just finished them to their obvious conclusions.

Ah... Hypocracy from a Politician. Refreshing

There was total war in World War II. The Germans and Japanese went out of their way to not only flatten cities with bombs, but to systematically rape, enslave and kill civilians. AND they did this with the patriotic support of their people.

No secret that we knew the Germans and Japanese would fight to the last man, woman and child with elderly people as an added bonus. So, we did the unimaginable, we bombed their cities and factories into ashes. This insane policy saved perhaps a million Allied military service men and women.

Yep, the Germans and Japanese got their just desserts. But heck, we ended up rebuilding those same countries. [East Germany was not included in the Marshal Plan, as the Russians went out of their way to loot that part of Germany]. Russia also took the Northern Islands of Japan, but Saxi can justify it, I'm sure.

Bernie Sanders wrote:

rishaed wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:

riskllama wrote:c'mon bernie...
Dresden? Hiroshima & Nagasaki?

Total war against these tyrants who did not respect human life was the root cause of the fire bombings and atomic bomb blasts. We did not start these wars, we just finished them to their obvious conclusions.

Ah... Hypocracy from a Politician. Refreshing

There was total war in World War II. The Germans and Japanese went out of their way to not only flatten cities with bombs, but to systematically rape, enslave and kill civilians. AND they did this with the patriotic support of their people.

No secret that we knew the Germans and Japanese would fight to the last man, woman and child with elderly people as an added bonus. So, we did the unimaginable, we bombed their cities and factories into ashes. This insane policy saved perhaps a million Allied military service men and women.

Yep, the Germans and Japanese got their just desserts. But heck, we ended up rebuilding those same countries. [East Germany was not included in the Marshal Plan, as the Russians went out of their way to loot that part of Germany]. Russia also took the Northern Islands of Japan, but Saxi can justify it, I'm sure.

As they say... History is written by the victors. However, Germany Surrendered far earlier than Japan, and it was only Japan that was willing to fight to the last man, according to the books. And while those things make some of the things they did detestable, it does not make them any of the good tacticians any less brilliant. It means that they were:
A. In a pinch because they were fighting on 3 fronts b/c of the Failed Assault on Russia, instigated primarily b/c of Hitler.
B. Had a large deficit in Manpower due to A: Russia switching sides. and B: Japan bringing the US into the war. (It was done because they thought we would join anyways. So Strike first and cripple the bases. = Good Strategy) C:Germany as it is, is still a small country fighting against at countries with combined resistance and manpower that was equal or greater to their own by this time. D. Lets not talk about Italy. Italy as an ally was terrible.
C. Near the end of the war had a large shortage of necessary supplies to maintain the war. Tanks don't run on air. As for Japan. Well... You shell them long enough after surrounding the main Island and i figure sooner or later you would get a notice of surrender. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the only Atom Bombs dropped in the history of mankind, and with the fallout its not surprising why. So yes. The German Tacticians and Strategists were brilliant.
In some ways you yourself have blinders on your eyes in certain subjects.

Bernie Sanders wrote:They lost.

So did Napoleon ... eventually.

Bernie Sanders wrote:There was total war in World War II. The Germans and Japanese went out of their way to not only flatten cities with bombs, but to systematically rape, enslave and kill civilians. AND they did this with the patriotic support of their people.

That's very interesting. It might even be historical projecting, but I digress.

Germany against London: The Blitz

Between 7 September 1940 and 21 May 1941 there were major aerial raids (attacks in which more than 100 tons of high explosives were dropped) on 16 British cities. Over a period of 267 days (almost 37 weeks), London was attacked 71 times, Birmingham, Liverpool and Plymouth eight times, Bristol six, Glasgow five, Southampton four, Portsmouth and Hull three, and there was also at least one large raid on another eight cities.[1] This was a result of a rapid escalation starting on 24 August 1940, when night bombers aiming for RAF airfields drifted off course and accidentally destroyed several London homes, killing civilians, combined with the UK Prime Minister Winston Churchill's immediate response of bombing Berlin on the following night.

So the Blitz started as a result of someone drifting off course.

Several reasons have been suggested for the failure of the German air offensive. The Luftwaffe High Command (Oberkommando der Luftwaffe, or OKL) failed to develop a coherent long-term strategy for destroying Britain's war industries, frequently switching from bombing one type of industry to another without exerting any sustained pressure on any one of them. Neither was the Luftwaffe equipped to carry out a long-term strategic air campaign, lacking among other things a heavy four-engined bomber during 1940 — with the Luftwaffe's intelligence on British industry and capabilities being of poor accuracy. All of these shortcomings denied the Luftwaffe the ability to make a strategic difference.

United States against Tokyo: Bombing of Tokyo

The Bombing of Tokyo (東京大空襲 Tōkyōdaikūshū?), often referred to as a series of firebombing raids, was conducted as part of the air raids on Japan by the United States Army Air Forces during the Pacific campaigns of World War II. The US first mounted a small-scale raid on Tokyo in April 1942. Strategic bombing and urban area bombing began in 1944 after the long-range B-29 Superfortress bomber entered service, first deployed from China and thereafter the Mariana Islands. B-29 raids from those islands began on 17 November 1944, and lasted until 15 August 1945, the day Japan capitulated. The Operation Meetinghouse air raid of 9–10 March 1945 was later estimated to be the single most destructive bombing raid in history.

tzor wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:There was total war in World War II. The Germans and Japanese went out of their way to not only flatten cities with bombs, but to systematically rape, enslave and kill civilians. AND they did this with the patriotic support of their people.

That's very interesting. It might even be historical projecting, but I digress.

Germany against London: The Blitz

Between 7 September 1940 and 21 May 1941 there were major aerial raids (attacks in which more than 100 tons of high explosives were dropped) on 16 British cities. Over a period of 267 days (almost 37 weeks), London was attacked 71 times, Birmingham, Liverpool and Plymouth eight times, Bristol six, Glasgow five, Southampton four, Portsmouth and Hull three, and there was also at least one large raid on another eight cities.[1] This was a result of a rapid escalation starting on 24 August 1940, when night bombers aiming for RAF airfields drifted off course and accidentally destroyed several London homes, killing civilians, combined with the UK Prime Minister Winston Churchill's immediate response of bombing Berlin on the following night.

So the Blitz started as a result of someone drifting off course.

Several reasons have been suggested for the failure of the German air offensive. The Luftwaffe High Command (Oberkommando der Luftwaffe, or OKL) failed to develop a coherent long-term strategy for destroying Britain's war industries, frequently switching from bombing one type of industry to another without exerting any sustained pressure on any one of them. Neither was the Luftwaffe equipped to carry out a long-term strategic air campaign, lacking among other things a heavy four-engined bomber during 1940 — with the Luftwaffe's intelligence on British industry and capabilities being of poor accuracy. All of these shortcomings denied the Luftwaffe the ability to make a strategic difference.

United States against Tokyo: Bombing of Tokyo

The Bombing of Tokyo (東京大空襲 Tōkyōdaikūshū?), often referred to as a series of firebombing raids, was conducted as part of the air raids on Japan by the United States Army Air Forces during the Pacific campaigns of World War II. The US first mounted a small-scale raid on Tokyo in April 1942. Strategic bombing and urban area bombing began in 1944 after the long-range B-29 Superfortress bomber entered service, first deployed from China and thereafter the Mariana Islands. B-29 raids from those islands began on 17 November 1944, and lasted until 15 August 1945, the day Japan capitulated. The Operation Meetinghouse air raid of 9–10 March 1945 was later estimated to be the single most destructive bombing raid in history.

...and your point? Not sure where you are going with this post.

-------That's O.K. Tzor. The Socialist also forgot. STALIN was also waging TOTAL WAR. KILLING and KILLING. But once again,the winners write the history books. He also doesn't see. As the German U-boats almost starved England out of the war. The US campaign of Island Hopping. Had The main Islands of Japan cut off. We never had to invade. We could of continued strategic bombing. Even if it took 6 more months. The Japanese would of gave up. In fact they were already trying to find away to give up and save face. Before we A-Bombed them. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion).

rishaed wrote:C. Near the end of the war had a large shortage of necessary supplies to maintain the war. Tanks don't run on air. As for Japan. Well... You shell them long enough after surrounding the main Island and i figure sooner or later you would get a notice of surrender. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the only Atom Bombs dropped in the history of mankind, and with the fallout its not surprising why. So yes. The German Tacticians and Strategists were brilliant.
In some ways you yourself have blinders on your eyes in certain subjects.

Military commanders at the time did agree Japan was going to surrender. The bombing of those cities was purely political, as a means to scare off future enemy Soviet Russia.
Not to mention, dropping an atomic bomb at sea in sight of some major cities would've been sufficient anyway.

waauw wrote:

rishaed wrote:C. Near the end of the war had a large shortage of necessary supplies to maintain the war. Tanks don't run on air. As for Japan. Well... You shell them long enough after surrounding the main Island and i figure sooner or later you would get a notice of surrender. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the only Atom Bombs dropped in the history of mankind, and with the fallout its not surprising why. So yes. The German Tacticians and Strategists were brilliant.
In some ways you yourself have blinders on your eyes in certain subjects.

Military commanders at the time did agree Japan was going to surrender. The bombing of those cities was purely political, as a means to scare off future enemy Soviet Russia.
Not to mention, dropping an atomic bomb at sea in sight of some major cities would've been sufficient anyway.

Not true.

The military fanatics we're still arguing with the politicians in Japan, even after the "two atomic bombs" were dropped. Without the atomic bombs being dropped, Japan would of continued fighting to the last man, woman and child.

Bernie Sanders wrote:

waauw wrote:

rishaed wrote:C. Near the end of the war had a large shortage of necessary supplies to maintain the war. Tanks don't run on air. As for Japan. Well... You shell them long enough after surrounding the main Island and i figure sooner or later you would get a notice of surrender. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the only Atom Bombs dropped in the history of mankind, and with the fallout its not surprising why. So yes. The German Tacticians and Strategists were brilliant.
In some ways you yourself have blinders on your eyes in certain subjects.

Military commanders at the time did agree Japan was going to surrender. The bombing of those cities was purely political, as a means to scare off future enemy Soviet Russia.
Not to mention, dropping an atomic bomb at sea in sight of some major cities would've been sufficient anyway.

Not true.

The military fanatics we're still arguing with the politicians in Japan, even after the "two atomic bombs" were dropped. Without the atomic bombs being dropped, Japan would of continued fighting to the last man, woman and child.

Japan is a very resource scarce Island (partially why they became an empire.) Even if the "military fanatics" argued, eventually the people would have either grown so war weary of being bombed and shelled daily, that they would have put enormous pressure on the government to surrender. Either that or they would run out of resources first. They were also no longer winning the airgame at all with the Zero's either so eventually the military costs would have added up and Japan would have no longer been able to sustain war. Japans military tacticians also would have recognized the pointlessness of continued fighting.

rishaed wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:

waauw wrote:

rishaed wrote:C. Near the end of the war had a large shortage of necessary supplies to maintain the war. Tanks don't run on air. As for Japan. Well... You shell them long enough after surrounding the main Island and i figure sooner or later you would get a notice of surrender. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the only Atom Bombs dropped in the history of mankind, and with the fallout its not surprising why. So yes. The German Tacticians and Strategists were brilliant.
In some ways you yourself have blinders on your eyes in certain subjects.

Military commanders at the time did agree Japan was going to surrender. The bombing of those cities was purely political, as a means to scare off future enemy Soviet Russia.
Not to mention, dropping an atomic bomb at sea in sight of some major cities would've been sufficient anyway.

Not true.

The military fanatics we're still arguing with the politicians in Japan, even after the "two atomic bombs" were dropped. Without the atomic bombs being dropped, Japan would of continued fighting to the last man, woman and child.

Japan is a very resource scarce Island (partially why they became an empire.) Even if the "military fanatics" argued, eventually the people would have either grown so war weary of being bombed and shelled daily, that they would have put enormous pressure on the government to surrender. Either that or they would run out of resources first. They were also no longer winning the airgame at all with the Zero's either so eventually the military costs would have added up and Japan would have no longer been able to sustain war. Japans military tacticians also would have recognized the pointlessness of continued fighting.

The mentality of ordinary Japanese was to worship their Emperor as a God. The military was training everyone to fight, even with sticks.

President Truman did what was right. The Japanese at the time were barbaric and ruthless. Saving face? The Japanese treated everyone outside the Japanese gene pool as inferior. They needed to be shown how absurb that was, so we dropped the bombs to save American lives.

To feel sorry for the Japanese Empire is ridiculous, just ask ordinary Asians that were occupied by Japan, whether the decision to drop the bombs was wrong.


Tojo, last of the nice guys that was leading an Army of racists, rapists and muderers

-----No,the last rapist/murder/war monger etc. Was your fellow socialist buddy Joseph Stalin. Just ask the Finns and Pols of 39. Anyone else afterwards. The Japanese war council including THE EMPEROR. Were trying to get rid of Tojo's and his gang. See a way Japan could surrender gracefully. Stalin played the West like suckers. Gaining everything he wanted. YES VOTE SOCIALIST AMERICA IN 2016. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion).

Bernie Sanders wrote:

rishaed wrote:

Bernie Sanders wrote:

waauw wrote:

rishaed wrote:C. Near the end of the war had a large shortage of necessary supplies to maintain the war. Tanks don't run on air. As for Japan. Well... You shell them long enough after surrounding the main Island and i figure sooner or later you would get a notice of surrender. Hiroshima and Nagasaki are the only Atom Bombs dropped in the history of mankind, and with the fallout its not surprising why. So yes. The German Tacticians and Strategists were brilliant.
In some ways you yourself have blinders on your eyes in certain subjects.

Military commanders at the time did agree Japan was going to surrender. The bombing of those cities was purely political, as a means to scare off future enemy Soviet Russia.
Not to mention, dropping an atomic bomb at sea in sight of some major cities would've been sufficient anyway.

Not true.

The military fanatics we're still arguing with the politicians in Japan, even after the "two atomic bombs" were dropped. Without the atomic bombs being dropped, Japan would of continued fighting to the last man, woman and child.

Japan is a very resource scarce Island (partially why they became an empire.) Even if the "military fanatics" argued, eventually the people would have either grown so war weary of being bombed and shelled daily, that they would have put enormous pressure on the government to surrender. Either that or they would run out of resources first. They were also no longer winning the airgame at all with the Zero's either so eventually the military costs would have added up and Japan would have no longer been able to sustain war. Japans military tacticians also would have recognized the pointlessness of continued fighting.

The mentality of ordinary Japanese was to worship their Emperor as a God. The military was training everyone to fight, even with sticks.

President Truman did what was right. The Japanese at the time were barbaric and ruthless. Saving face? The Japanese treated everyone outside the Japanese gene pool as inferior. They needed to be shown how absurb that was, so we dropped the bombs to save American lives.

To feel sorry for the Japanese Empire is ridiculous, just ask ordinary Asians that were occupied by Japan, whether the decision to drop the bombs was wrong.
Tojo, last of the nice guys that was leading an Army of racists, rapists and muderers

You sound like a Western Imperialist from the 1800's or from Columbus's time.

ConfederateSS wrote:The Japanese war council including THE EMPEROR. Were trying to get rid of Tojo's and his gang. See a way Japan could surrender gracefully. Stalin played the West like suckers.

Correct. Japan was holding out because Stalin kept on giving them the impression that he was about to ally with them and come fight alongside them, or at least protect them. If they had known from the start that Stalin was not their friend then they would probably have caved in long before the nukes were dropped.

ConfederateSS wrote:------Happy 128th Birthday to one of the Greatest Defensive Tacticians ever. Erich Von Manstein. Rommel(The Desert Fox)'s B-Day was Nov.15th. One of the best offensive.Like Rommel, He was no nazi. Like his book "Lost Victories", tells of the military aspect of the war. His fights in the war room with Hitler(who Manstien thought was a crazy fool ). Wiki left some key things out. At his war crimes trail, his counterparts spoke on his behalf. Churchill,Eisenhower,Zuchkov. I think Rommel would have had been treated the same by them. Wiki left out. After he served his time in prison for war crimes. Manstien was giving the job of making NATO's defense plan. In case of Soviet Warsaw Pact invasion. Thanks to his "Mobile Defense Strategy" against the Red Army in 1943/44. You have to love the computer age. ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion).

Nice try Nazi lover, Confederate lover, or should I say Double loser
If Soviets captured him his life would have been much shorter, as he deserve.