Conquer Club

Lobsters feel no pain. They don't have a nervous system complicated enough to handle it. This is real science that I am totally not making up.
To anybody reading this and thinking 'spam', it's part of a joke in the 'vegetarians' thread.
Actually, since this has turned into a semi-intelligent discussion I guess I can remove the "don't bump this" warning, because there's no real danger of me getting a spam warning for anymore... huttah! In your face AK!

That is amazing...
Another seemingly useless fact that I might end up using later on in life

do they even have large enough brains to contemplete things like pain

edited for unwarrantd meanness

Umm... admittedly I never got that far in biology but lobsters have a CNS and a PNS. This suggests to me that they would feel pain like any other animal, pain is after all just a natural stimulation of nerve cells sent to the brain.

And I'm fully aware you don't want me to post this, which is why I'm posting it

It depends on your definition of pain. If you define pain as the reflexive contractions to an outside stimulus, then yes, lobsters feel pain. If you think that pain requires sentience, and emotion, and all that package that goes along with it as in humans or some higher order mammals such as primates, then lobsters don't feel "pain." There's also a fine line to draw - how complex must a network be in response to a stimulus, and how large the stimulus, before we define it as "pain"? Do lobsters feel pain? Do snails? Do bacteria, when you pry them apart with detergent?

P.S. This post is super serial!

Dancing Mustard wrote:Lobsters feel no pain. They don't have a nervous system complicated enough to handle it. This is real science that I am totally not making up.
To anybody reading this and thinking 'spam', it's part of a joke in the 'vegetarians' thread. Please don't bump it, or it'll just annoy everybody. If it was locked then I would be happy.

Then why do they "scream" when placed in boiling water?

I have had lots of experience with lobsters, in fact with many different types of marine crustaceans and even with some marine molluscs and I can assure you categorically, without any doubt whatsoever, that lobsters feel no pain...

Bertros, how are you defining pain? I think the question that Cless raised is exactly the right one. What is pain? It seems to me that he is right in that, if pain is a reflexive response to stimulus, then they must, right? If pain is something that has to be intellectualized, though, where does the line fall that distinguishes which organisms feel pain and which do not? This raises another interesting question....is there a difference between pain and suffering? Does the lobster suffer when I put it in the pot?

I wouldn't categorise pain as a response to stimulus. Pain in a physical sense is a feedback mechanism that damage is occuring to tissue. Lobsters do not have this feedback mechanism. They can respond to stimuli, changes in temperature for example, or pressure, or movement but they have no feedback mechanism to provide awareness of damage, hence they don't feel pain.

If you start relating pain to suffering then this is no longer in a physical sense. Personally I don't think a lobster is capable of experiencing suffering, in fact I don't think they "feel" or "experience" at all, they just respond.

Lobsters do not scream when placed in boiling water. In fact as a general rule they make no sound whatsoever. When the lobster has been out of water for an extended period prior to cooking air trapped within the shell can be quickly expelled through small gaps around the legs creating a whistling sound.

Ok, but do lobsters NEED to die just because we're hungry? Haven't they got a shitty life as it is?

Delicious.

Aw god! That thing look like a cockroach that evolved in water. Look at his legs and tentacles! YUCK!

jay_a2j wrote:

Dancing Mustard wrote:Lobsters feel no pain. They don't have a nervous system complicated enough to handle it. This is real science that I am totally not making up.
To anybody reading this and thinking 'spam', it's part of a joke in the 'vegetarians' thread. Please don't bump it, or it'll just annoy everybody. If it was locked then I would be happy.

Then why do they "scream" when placed in boiling water?

Because you touch yourself at night.

Obv.

I think lobsters are cute. Seriously

Bertros, I agree with you on the pain and suffering points, so my next question is: What is the most evolutionarily ancient creature that can experience pain? If lobsters don't feel pain, and from what I know of the natural world (which is a fair amount), we can also assume that bacteria, insects, fungi, plants, etc, don't feel pain either. I just wonder where along the evolutionary way pain showed up?

jay_a2j wrote:

Dancing Mustard wrote:Lobsters feel no pain. They don't have a nervous system complicated enough to handle it. This is real science that I am totally not making up.
To anybody reading this and thinking 'spam', it's part of a joke in the 'vegetarians' thread. Please don't bump it, or it'll just annoy everybody. If it was locked then I would be happy.

Then why do they "scream" when placed in boiling water?

Steam being forced through openings in the shell, much like steam escaping from a kettle.

Lobsters have a ganglion of nerves, much like most terrestrial insects. They're not advanced enough to feel pain or anything like that.

jay_a2j wrote:Then why do they "scream" when placed in boiling water?

That's a good one.

The so-called "scream" is nothing but water vapor escaping its shell as its immersed in boiling water.

Speaking of water, my mouth is watering thinking of a huge, succulent tail smothered in herbs & butter......

Colossus wrote:Bertros, I agree with you on the pain and suffering points, so my next question is: What is the most evolutionarily ancient creature that can experience pain? If lobsters don't feel pain, and from what I know of the natural world (which is a fair amount), we can also assume that bacteria, insects, fungi, plants, etc, don't feel pain either. I just wonder where along the evolutionary way pain showed up?

An excellent question. Do we have any biologists in the house that could answer it? I for one am fascinated to hear a response.

I'm quite happy that my mindless spam-thread has evolved into a semi-serious debate...

Do you think insects feel pain, or suffer, for that matter?

Aegnor wrote:Do you think insects feel pain, or suffer, for that matter?

I don't think they don't feel pain, I know they don't.

I would group insects among those that don't. After all, insects are more evolutionarily ancient than lobsters and their ilk, as far as I know, so they don't have the nervous system for it either. I think the pain vs. suffering question is always a good one to bring up in the whole cruelty to animals debate. After all, if lobsters can't feel pain, then they can't possibly suffer by being cooked alive, right?

Iz Man wrote:

Aegnor wrote:Do you think insects feel pain, or suffer, for that matter?

I don't think they don't feel pain, I know they don't.

That makes me feel much better about next time when I'll squash a bug.

with "pain" being defined as the body's response to harmful stimulus, then yes,
lobsters do feel pain. Any animal with a nervous system does.
Imagine not being able do feel pain, but still being mortal. I'm not the only one who thinks that's total suicide, am i?

Cynthia wrote::lol: I think lobsters are cute. Seriously

Um... Yea... Er... I do to...


And heck yea they feel pain... They stinkin scrreeeemmmm!
By the way, just to tick DM off, BUMP