Conquer Club

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:06 pm**

My teacher told my class that homosexuality was not a choice; she suggested it was a mental disease (Catholic bias here). Well, I've looked into both sides of this issue, and there are interesting theories- like the Uncle theory. This assumes that homosexuality is a (recessive) gene.

There is the so-called "Uncle" theory which can explain how the homosexual "gene" is passed on and maintained within populations.

Assume a man is homosexual and does not sire any children during his life; therefore, none of his genetic information will be passed on to a new generation. However, he may have heterosexual brother and sisters. They will be approximately 50% genetically identical to the homosexual man and some will probably carry the homosexual gene even if they are not themselves gay. Any children that they have will have 25% genetic identity with their gay Uncle and may again pass on the homosexual trait to their offspring. Although the gay uncle does not therefore contribute directly to the next generation's genes, he does so indirectly through his nieces and nephews. Moreover, if he is active in helping to raise and nurture his nephews and nieces and ensure their survival he increases the chances of his gay gene being propagated in future generations. Some theorists believe that gay Uncles may be gentler and perhaps more feminine than straight Uncles which is why they make better Uncles and better carers/protectors for their nieces and nephews.

The part an Uncle plays in raising his nieces and nephews may be reduced in today's modern world but in primative hunter gatherer societies (and even 100 years ago when we all lived as closer family units) an Uncle may have played a much greater role in protecting his brother or sister's children until they reached adulthood and had children of their own.

if it was a gene, bisexuality would come into question.
....
and there could also be the possibility that it is a choice- most people do not become "gay" until later in their life, maybe from failure with women, and it may not be a gene. I mean, is being straight a gene? It will always be present, your sexual orientation. Maybe it was curiosity and they liked it.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:11 pm**

My personal opinion is that homosexuality is a perversion, like sub/dom, or granny love. Whether this is genetic or choice is semantics.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:12 pm**

It is probably both, our knowledge of the brain is pretty primitive, but its getting better every day. It could be that we're susceptible, but then our upbringing triggers something that makes us gay.

I honestly don't see how it makes much of a difference, if we havne't tried outlawing autoeroticism and masturbation, i dont' see why we can't jsut suck it up and allow gay peple to go around like normal.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:13 pm**

I can not see any sexuality as being a choice. I do not know of anyone who just decided that he should like women and all of a sudden was sexually attracted to women. To an extent, I can see how certain sub-conscious suggestions that come from earlier experiences in life can effect your sexuality but like I said, I do not see how anyone can just choose who they are attracted to.

I think that hormonal messaging probably plays a large role as well as other factors more directly related with the way we think from the very beginning.

I can see how some people can make sexuality decisions based on rebelling against or going along with society but these people at least some of them do not seem to actually become this sexual orientation but just fool themselves into thinking it.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:17 pm**

Huckleberryhound wrote:My personal opinion is that homosexuality is a perversion, like sub/dom, or granny love. Whether this is genetic or choice is semantics.

well....i'm really perverted then...

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:27 pm**

s.xkitten wrote:well....i'm really perverted then...

Selective quoting could make that a funny sig or something.

Posted: **Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:29 pm**

s.xkitten wrote:
well....i'm really perverted then...

I never said it was wrong, and my description is actually quite correct (try checking perversion in a dictionary).

Whether to legislate for a sexual deviation.......that's another days work.

Just so you know, i'm not a religious person, or a homophobe.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:01 am**

Huckleberryhound wrote:or a homophobe.

Lets take a closer look at this word "homophobe".

homo:1. (italics) the genus of bipedal primates that includes modern humans and several extinct forms, distinguished by their large brains and a dependence upon tools. Compare archaic Homo.
2. Informal. (sometimes lowercase)
a. a member of the genus Homo.
b. the species Homo sapiens or one of its members.

phobe:suff.

One that fears or is averse to a specified thing

now we must look up the word averse......

averse:–adjective
having a strong feeling of opposition, antipathy, repugnance, etc.; opposed

So when some calls another a "homophobe" they are saying one of a few things:

A) you have a fear of man

or

B) you are opposed to, or have strong feeling against "homo's"(slang for homosexuals)

but far too often people like to use "homophobe" as a put down and that's where we get option "C"

C) you are a person who fears or hates homosexuals and homosexuality.

Now, I personally have never "feared" a homosexual or homosexuality. Do I hate homosexuals? Absolutely not. Do I hate homosexuality? Yes. It is a sin in my faith. But people like me are condemned all the time for having a moral foundation.

my 6 cents.

btw I do not believe people are "born" gay. I also believe that people are attracted to the same sex for a variety of reasons. But the "choice" comes in when you act upon these feelings or attractions. So, I believe that although a person can not choose whom they are attracted to they do choose whether or not they act upon it.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:16 am**

jay_a2j wrote:
Huckleberryhound wrote:or a homophobe.

Lets take a closer look at this word "homophobe".

homo:1. (italics) the genus of bipedal primates that includes modern humans and several extinct forms, distinguished by their large brains and a dependence upon tools. Compare archaic Homo.
2. Informal. (sometimes lowercase)
a. a member of the genus Homo.
b. the species Homo sapiens or one of its members.

phobe:suff.

One that fears or is averse to a specified thing

now we must look up the word averse......

averse:–adjective
having a strong feeling of opposition, antipathy, repugnance, etc.; opposed

So when some calls another a "homophobe" they are saying one of a few things:

A) you have a fear of man

or

B) you are opposed to, or have strong feeling against "homo's"(slang for homosexuals)

but far too often people like to use "homophobe" as a put down and that's where we get option "C"

C) you are a person who fears or hates homosexuals and homosexuality.

Now, I personally have never "feared" a homosexual or homosexuality. Do I hate homosexuals? Absolutely not. Do I hate homosexuality? Yes. It is a sin in my faith. But people like me are condemned all the time for having a moral foundation.

my 6 cents.

btw I do not believe people are "born" gay. I also believe that people are attracted to the same sex for a variety of reasons. But the "choice" comes in when you act upon these feelings or attractions. So, I believe that although a person can not choose whom they are attracted to they do choose whether or not they act upon it.

Great! Don't be gay, id you think Jesus would consider that sinful! However, seeming as how I am of the same faith as you (at least, I assume that you're Christian ) and my religion tells me that Jesus loves me for who I am. It's not just your faith, for the record. Good response otherwise, though.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:22 am**

One thing I have against the pro-choice (lol) crowd is that they figure men and women grow up, seeing all the abuse heaped on gays by religious and non-religious alike, and still make a conscious choice to be gay. Honestly, it would be like growing up white in a racist society, and making the choice to be black. D.U.M.B. I feel that gay people are generally sensible enough to make the obvious choice that it would be far easier to be straight, if they had any choice. Therfore, I believe sexuality to be genetic.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:27 am**

I honestly think that its a little bit of both... to quote the great band Weezer: If everyone's a little queer/Can't she be a little straight?... I think that people are born with a tendency towards homosexuality, some stronger then others and that the environment that they are raised in fills the other half of the equation. So a person who has a strong tendency towards homosexuality wouldn't need as big as an environmental impact for them to become one. and its just the opposite the other way, a person born with a low tendency towards homosexuality would need a larger environmental impact. I do not know what it is in the environment that could effect people.

I know I am cheating and not taking a side in the Nature vs. Nurture debate... But I honestly that it is a little bit of both.

Now of course there are extreme examples of how the environment can be the only influence... e.g. a young girl is molested my all the men in her life... her father and brothers and uncles... i doubt very much that the girl would want anything to do with men when she grows up.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:43 am**

It is neither a choice or a gene.

It arises from a chemical imbalance in the womb, by monitoring the levels of estrogen and Testosterone and making adjustments to these levels, homosexuality would be eliminated. although it is natural, it is also an abnormality.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 1:46 am**

ksslemp wrote:It is neither a choice or a gene.

It arises from a chemical imbalance in the womb, by monitoring the levels of estrogen and Testosterone and making adjustments to these levels, homosexuality would be eliminated.

Unless the gays got to the controls first, then heterosexuality would be eliminated. Sounds like the makings of a great doomsday film.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:02 am**

ksslemp wrote:It is neither a choice or a gene.

It arises from a chemical imbalance in the womb, by monitoring the levels of estrogen and Testosterone and making adjustments to these levels, homosexuality would be eliminated. although it is natural, it is also an abnormality.

Can't argue with blue text. Guess you're right.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:35 am**

spurgistan wrote:
ksslemp wrote:It is neither a choice or a gene.

It arises from a chemical imbalance in the womb, by monitoring the levels of estrogen and Testosterone and making adjustments to these levels, homosexuality would be eliminated. although it is natural, it is also an abnormality.

Can't argue with blue text. Guess you're right.

i can, but i wont..

but anyways, there was a study done that said lesbians can smell female phormones (like straight men) and gays can smell the male pheramons (what straight females can tell, and yes i did try to spell pheramones or whatever it is spelled like two diff ways) and they are attracted to others that way... soo i unno that could lead to the arguement that maybe lesbians are actually supposed to be males when their brains developed but their body was made into females... eh..

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:43 am**

does the fact that i feel uncomfortable round gay men make me a homophobe? coz its not as if i dislike them. i just feel uncomfortable

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:27 am**

Someone forgot the "It's a cultural phenomenon brought upon innocent children by godless and liberal education"-option, the "It's a cultural phenomenon brought upon innocent children by overly religious and backward education"-option and the "GFY"-option.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:33 am**

alex_white101 wrote:does the fact that i feel uncomfortable round gay men make me a homophobe? coz its not as if i dislike them. i just feel uncomfortable

Nope, not homophobic, just insecure :-)

I mean, I don't like sprouts, but I'm not sproutophobic.

I don't think homosexuality is a disease or abhorrent. I think people get way too hung up over this.

Maybe a particular combination of chemicals in the brain make you attracted to men, but how's that different to the combination of chemicals that make people attracted to say, Jordan? (alias Katie Price. Google, my American friends, google) To be honest I don't understand either attraction :-)

People are attracted to disparate things, which is good, otherwise everyone in the world would be trying to date my girlfriend and I'd get in a lot of fights.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 3:37 am**

I'm totally gay.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:29 am**

b.k. barunt wrote:
ksslemp wrote:It is neither a choice or a gene.

It arises from a chemical imbalance in the womb, by monitoring the levels of estrogen and Testosterone and making adjustments to these levels, homosexuality would be eliminated.
Unless the gays got to the controls first, then heterosexuality would be eliminated. Sounds like the makings of a great doomsday film.

This is a fantastic idea BK. Jay could play the bad guy - 'Biblethumper' - spraying bullets of divine justice into the well-dressed bodies of as many gays as possible from a crucifix-shaped machine gun.

I'd watch it.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:57 am**

Homosexuality is one of Natures(she's a real trickster that one) schemes to slow down the growth of the human population.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:33 am**

alex_white101 wrote:does the fact that i feel uncomfortable round gay men make me a homophobe? coz its not as if i dislike them. i just feel uncomfortable

and what makes uo uncomfortable? Just because theyre attracted to men doesnt mean their attracted to ALL men

gimil

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:55 am**

There's this obviously gay guy in my chemistry class, and it is dfefinitly not a fashion statement.

Aradhus wrote:Homosexuality is one of Natures(she's a real trickster that one) schemes to slow down the growth of the human population.

Not that it works, every family still wants three, four, five kids.

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:56 am**

gimil wrote:
alex_white101 wrote:does the fact that i feel uncomfortable round gay men make me a homophobe? coz its not as if i dislike them. i just feel uncomfortable

and what makes uo uncomfortable? Just because theyre attracted to men doesnt mean their attracted to ALL men

gimil

yeah but its still..........weird

like theres something wrong and kinda creepy about them , not sayin there is, but it just seems odd :roll:

Posted: **Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:15 am**

Does it really matter where it comes from? If people want to be gay more power to them. I don't see how it's anyone's business if people want to be gay. (Unless you're really bored and have a lousy sex life and enjoy putting down other people).
And btw, a homophobe is a person who is insecure in his sexuality and treat gay people as a threat because they keep reminding him about his insecurity. (even if it's a sub-conscious process).
And about the gene theory, many gay people live in the closet and run normal families and even have sex with their wives and have children (They're not called bisexuals because they are not attracted to their wives, they stay in the closet for various reasons, same goes to lesbians).

Conquer Club

Homosexuality

Homosexuality

Also