Mentally Challenged Discussion ( Issue page 1)

[-ShadySoul-]

like i said its impossible to fight over this manner. And even though communism did set many countries few years back, it brought glory to the kingdom that no one before heard from. Thanks to communism, Russians were able to create many fascinating things that helped, not only them, but the rest of the world. Communists were able to go against the one nation that everyone was too scared to oppose, and it is during this time that the people of USSR finally got out of their hole, and showed the world their glory. And you know what? i would rather be controlled by one individual, whos view i share and believe in, then in 20 ( parlament ) with different views, and who tell different lies. Sure, Stalin controlled people, but so does Bush, or any other American president, you cant have power if you cant control, its all about how you get that power, weather you get it by killing your people, invading someone else, or just killing of the same race, in the end ALL politicians are the same, which makes them equal, and does that not remind you of communism? All of your power figures are equal, and those that are not in power are nothing, that is why they let you progress, so you can hope to be like them, but you never will be. Communism does not give that false hope, it just shows that we are all alike and we are all equal and nothing should ever change that

[muy_thaiguy]

like i said its impossible to fight over this manner. And even though communism did set many countries few years back, it brought glory to the kingdom that no one before heard from. Thanks to communism, Russians were able to create many fascinating things that helped, not only them, but the rest of the world. Communists were able to go against the one nation that everyone was too scared to oppose, and it is during this time that the people of USSR finally got out of their hole, and showed the world their glory. And you know what? i would rather be controlled by one individual, whos view i share and believe in, then in 20 ( parlament ) with different views, and who tell different lies. Sure, Stalin controlled people, but so does Bush, or any other American president, you cant have power if you cant control, its all about how you get that power, weather you get it by killing your people, invading someone else, or just killing of the same race, in the end ALL politicians are the same, which makes them equal, and does that not remind you of communism? All of your power figures are equal, and those that are not in power are nothing, that is why they let you progress, so you can hope to be like them, but you never will be. Communism does not give that false hope, it just shows that we are all alike and we are all equal and nothing should ever change that

No, it does not remind me of Communism. And you have it backwards, everyone else was afraid to face the USSR. But the US still sent money, food, materials, and many other essential things to the USSR, beause they could not provide themselves with it. In Parliament, or Congress, those people are elected to that position because a majority of people agree with them, unlike the USSR, where Stalin had hordes or people killed just so he could have power. And what did the USSR give to the world that is so great and glorious? I haven't seen much except a bitter resenment towards the USSR for taking away so many countries independence for decades. The collapse of the USSR only harmed everyone, including Russia, more. The only thing that was decent was industry. But even, what was the cost in those decades for it? The 5 year plans were crippling the people who were part of the USSR. Those that complained in the slightest were shot or taken for "re-education." So once again, I ask you, what was this great ang glorious achievement?

[Skittles!]

The National Anthem is awesome, I'm listening to it right now actually.

[EvilPurpleMonkey]

f*ck, go away for 4 hours and now some kids with conflicting ideals comes along.

I don't believe they should be locked up "for their own protection", as Protectionism, or whatever you wana call it, has been used many times in history, but never worked out. They're people, but people are nuisances.

They may be "useless" to society, but so are children, and toddlers, and aged people. Should we lock them all up too? Maybe inject a chemical in them to kill them?

I may hate humans, but chemically killing someone because they're "useless" to society. Society as a whole is useless.

I find this to be a ridiculous statement. Retards are permanently useless to society! They cannot contribute to the advancement of mankind in anyway! Children and toddlers on the other hand are extremely valuable. It may sound cliche, but children are indeed the future, they advance society, the human race and we'd be screwed without them. Old people, well, that's a bit of a borderline. They can still contribute to the world, but ones that go comatose or vegatative...Perhaps, but their still more valuable then the mentally handicapped. You know what Skittles, you're a fucking idiot. You may think you're smart, but your nothing. Perhaps you ace tests, but you are only technically smart. You think humanity is a cold heartless beast that will consume and destroy the world, you think that we are mere animals? Perhaps, but at least some of us are trying to do something, unlike the moping doomsayers like you.

Good point, but now I'll counter that we lock adults up too. We lock them up in work, so all they think about is work, and a family if they have one. Works consumes the majority of people, for what? For money? Humans don't need money, society needs money to run. We never needed money at all. We need work, but we don't need money to go along with it. Work is meant to be for the best of humanity. Money is not the best of humanity. Work should bring equality, but instead it brings disorientation.

We're all locked up, and we don't need to be.

An equally thoughtless statement. First of all, we would still be trapped in this conundrum even without money. Energy in any form is not free. We need some sort of currency, regardless of what shape it takes. When man first appeared we needed food to survive so we had to work, in the times of hunter gatherer tribes we had to hunt and gather to live, in the feudal age we worked for a lord who provided us protection in exchange for our services, in the age of kings we worked for a kingdom which provided us with a more complicated, yet more advanced and enjoyable life, and the trend continued. The fact is we need to work because there is no such thing as free energy. If we didn't work, we would die. So sorry, but your little fantasy world of no labor and happiness for all will never come to be, you lazy punk.

We don't need money, that's what my point was about. These days, Work = Money, and it's ridiculously disgusting. We don't need luxury, yet we still have it. People feel we are superior to other organisms, which I find ridiculous. Yes, you can say I live in a fantasy world.

And no, they had money in the Dark Ages, what they lacked was electronic technology. They had technology, not electronic technology though.

And no, not everything I 'own' belongs to society. You're thinking of a Communist society, and we're not in that. Sadly.

Ah, but we do need money, or some equivalent. Labor, money, barter system. Either we must be fully independent (Labor) by hunting, gathering, gardening, mining, etc. etc. or we can be co dependent (Barter System, Currency) in which way we can have specialists and in turn a more advanced society. If we had a hundred independent people, and one society of a hundred, we'll see who gets farther. Sorry, but NOTHING is free. And your sad we aren't a communist society? Communism, which I find an interesting topic to study, is not all that. It's a classless society. You and the President would be on the same level. Sounds good for the average joe, but that means that there is no status movement. No matter how hard you worked, you'd all be the same in society's eyes.

Ah, Communist. Don't let MTG see!

You forgot Guevara, by the way, with people that have changed society. And Castro.. But that's a different topic.

Rules are breakable, anyone can break them, and everyone breaks them, no matter what. Even a toddler breaks rules, and that's because there are so many that we don't need.

There is a reason we need rules, we can not simply have anarchy. Rules are there to protect. What would you think if homicide was legal? And everyone does break them, but they do act as restraints. If we could get away with homicide with no repercussions, don't you think more people would do it?

After reading the first few pages of this thread I'd like to make a statement.



Here in the United States of America we have a little thing called "discrimination". Some posters here may not be aware of this but retarded individuals are people too. Some of you might remember an 80's show, Life Goes On with the lead character "Corky" being mentally challenged. He probably made more money than most in this thread could ever hope of making. You might pause for a moment and consider that they are people, with feelings and emotions. This talk of shipping them off to Siberia away from "normal" people, or keeping them hidden away, out of sight makes me wonder.....who really should be rounded up and done away with?

The retards. Personally, I don't think of people who can not comprehend simple theorys or concepts to be human. I think of them as animals who serve no purpose, and only cause complications. But if you care about them so much, you'll be allowed to care for them in my ideal society, just don't expect any help.

OH NO NO NO! lol
i believe in religion about as much as that tapeworms are actually good for you. I find religion just another way of controlling people, through some one else's idea. And, when im saying God, i am trying to diss the whole religion point of view ( even though im supposed to be open minded ), maybe that is mot working out too well. I believe in communism because of its general idea, equality. I would rather believe in that then, in capitalism, which is based on money/ material possession

Religion can be used as a way to control people, but so can communism. And on this note, I've seen communism do much more damage than religion. Sure, up until the late middle ages, it was a tool for genocide, but it was also a way of spreading ideas, knowledge and medicine. Communism on the other hand has only created brief periods of happiness after a successful revolution like that of Spain, Portugal and Russia. Afterwards it went to shit. Communism is a return to the hunter gatherer age, and is not beneficial as it discourages free thought, progress and personal success. Capitalism on the other hand is survival of the fittest, the weak commanded by the strong.

like i said its impossible to fight over this manner. And even though communism did set many countries few years back, it brought glory to the kingdom that no one before heard from. Thanks to communism, Russians were able to create many fascinating things that helped, not only them, but the rest of the world. Communists were able to go against the one nation that everyone was too scared to oppose, and it is during this time that the people of USSR finally got out of their hole, and showed the world their glory. And you know what? i would rather be controlled by one individual, whos view i share and believe in, then in 20 ( parlament ) with different views, and who tell different lies. Sure, Stalin controlled people, but so does Bush, or any other American president, you cant have power if you cant control, its all about how you get that power, weather you get it by killing your people, invading someone else, or just killing of the same race, in the end ALL politicians are the same, which makes them equal, and does that not remind you of communism? All of your power figures are equal, and those that are not in power are nothing, that is why they let you progress, so you can hope to be like them, but you never will be. Communism does not give that false hope, it just shows that we are all alike and we are all equal and nothing should ever change that

Off topic, but ok. Ha, why would anyone oppose the USA back then? Back then they were reclusive, then they became world players helping out everyone. Also, when they went agains the USA they lost. Now they're a second class country again. And there is a reason parlimanent consits of so many people, so things don't get out of control. If one guy goes whacko, he can be subdued. Also, these people are elected by the people, I'd rather have that then a communist dictator. And not all politicians are equal. George Bush is a fucking douche, Kennedy and Reagan were excellent. Communism is for the weak and lazy, capitalism is for those who strive towards greatness.

f*ck that was a long ass post.

[Skittles!]

I love it, Purple, I really do. So much I'm not even bothered to reply. Except - no, I don't think I'm smart. Yeah, I'm a total moping doomsayer. Ohhhh mop mop mop. I never stated humanity was evil, I said it's just shit.

[muy_thaiguy]

Yet well put.



Edit, fastposted.

[DaGip]

With all these great discussions we have about 9/11, religion and homophobia, I decided to make a thread about one issue greatly ignored today. Retardation.

Story:
I'm going to compare 2 different countries and their views on the following matter. First off, Russia. In Russia, or pretty much any country that once belonged to USSR, retardation is viewed as a deadly disease, and people in those countries believe that mentally challenged people should be locked away in some far away place, like Siberia, and never be heard from again. It is strictly forbidden, not by government laws but by social ones, for retards to have kids, or a family, or any kind of social relationship. So, poop parents are made to hide their children, and a lot of them never even see daylight outside their window. If, some parent/kid is brave enough to leave the safety of his sanctuary, he is discriminated by many, thus resulting in even bigger mental trauma.
Now a different country, Canada, in here retards are allowed to walk freely, have jobs/ families/normal life, there are many programs to help their conditions, many sponsor programs and so on. The one thing that doesnt change, however, is discrimination from peers. In school, they are laughed at, and made fun of. Every one always blames them, and i even heard some teachers express their hate towards these kids in a verbal manner. I don't exclude my self from this either, i have been known to say/do things that would be offensive even to a normal child. Sure Canada's view seems more civilized but it seems that mentally challenged kids suffer even more discrimination in Canada, then they do in Russia.

My p.o.v.:
I believe in the russian point of view, because i think they are better off just being grouped in one place, never be heard from, then constantly laughed at.

In conclusion:
I want to know your opinion, should they be left alone or should we take matter in our owns hands and do something about it. Or maybe you just don't care, i still want to know about it.

Thanks

[Snorri1234]

This thread is all kinds of stupid.

[-ShadySoul-]

like i said its impossible to fight over this manner. And even though communism did set many countries few years back, it brought glory to the kingdom that no one before heard from. Thanks to communism, Russians were able to create many fascinating things that helped, not only them, but the rest of the world. Communists were able to go against the one nation that everyone was too scared to oppose, and it is during this time that the people of USSR finally got out of their hole, and showed the world their glory. And you know what? i would rather be controlled by one individual, whos view i share and believe in, then in 20 ( parlament ) with different views, and who tell different lies. Sure, Stalin controlled people, but so does Bush, or any other American president, you cant have power if you cant control, its all about how you get that power, weather you get it by killing your people, invading someone else, or just killing of the same race, in the end ALL politicians are the same, which makes them equal, and does that not remind you of communism? All of your power figures are equal, and those that are not in power are nothing, that is why they let you progress, so you can hope to be like them, but you never will be. Communism does not give that false hope, it just shows that we are all alike and we are all equal and nothing should ever change that

No, it does not remind me of Communism. And you have it backwards, everyone else was afraid to face the USSR. But the US still sent money, food, materials, and many other essential things to the USSR, beause they could not provide themselves with it. In Parliament, or Congress, those people are elected to that position because a majority of people agree with them, unlike the USSR, where Stalin had hordes or people killed just so he could have power. And what did the USSR give to the world that is so great and glorious? I haven't seen much except a bitter resenment towards the USSR for taking away so many countries independence for decades. The collapse of the USSR only harmed everyone, including Russia, more. The only thing that was decent was industry. But even, what was the cost in those decades for it? The 5 year plans were crippling the people who were part of the USSR. Those that complained in the slightest were shot or taken for "re-education." So once again, I ask you, what was this great ang glorious achievement?

The countries that joined USSR, joined it willingly....its not like they were forced to, people in those countries are faggots, because they are blaming USSR for all their problems, while they seem to miss that they joined it because they believed in it. Now, because USSR didnt work out, everyone chose it as their scapegoat.
Glorious things? First man out in space, first satelite, advanced warfare forward for couple of decades.
And you seem to forget how USA got its independance from Britain? the bloody way, its not like they all sat down, drank tea, and decided to let USA go, USA had to fight, and KILL their own, so tell, whats so glorious about that? And civil wars like that are bound to break louse if there is no strong rule, if 20 guys form their own groups and go attacking each other, what is going to happen? Chaos, not happiness.

PS. Sorry i could have written more but i gotta go to school, my next replay should come along in a few hours

[muy_thaiguy]

Hate to break it to you, but those countries did not join willingly. They were conquered and occupied by the Russians when they were pushing the Nazi forces back. In other words, they wen't from one power-hungry dictator to another. The first man out in space was short-lived, the US soon caught up, and then surpassed by landing on the moon.

As for the Revolutionary War, that was fought because we were not being treated as citezens, nor were we being represented in Parliament. In a way, you could compare it to a country wanting to gain freedom from the USSR. Except we were doing it from the British. And since you bring up Civil War, we weren't aiming at dislodging the Royal Family, we wanted rights. We wanted to be ourselves and were tired of the British government enforcing their laws on us.

I shall continue in a bit. Class is starting.

[DaGip]

Just to prove to you that cops are retards...here ya go!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... &plindex=1

[muy_thaiguy]

Hate to break it to you, but those countries did not join willingly. They were conquered and occupied by the Russians when they were pushing the Nazi forces back. In other words, they went from one power-hungry dictator to another. The first man out in space was short-lived, the US soon caught up, and then surpassed by landing on the moon.

As for the Revolutionary War, that was fought because we were not being treated as citizens, nor were we being represented in Parliament. In a way, you could compare it to a country wanting to gain freedom from the USSR. Except we were doing it from the British. And since you bring up Civil War, we weren't aiming at dislodging the Royal Family, we wanted rights. We wanted to be ourselves and were tired of the British government enforcing their laws on us.

I shall continue in a bit. Class is starting.

Though we did have to kill eachother, it wasn't a ruthless massacre. That is a fine difference between the Russian Revolution and American. And how was that a Civil War? THere were people living here that had come from all over Europe, not just England. And the reason WHY we decided to fight back was because of there being a strong central government. Not to mention it was 3000 miles away. And I'm not really sure where you coming from with the groups of 20 people part.

[got tonkaed]

i think i might be late as this is going to be jacked into a why capitalism is better than socialism/communism/other isms that get bunched in (which ive been involved in before) and just talk about the original issue.

As societies we tend to try and figure out what its like to be normal, and we establish this as our center. We like the center, it gives us something to reach out to, something to cling on, something to continue working to improve. Those things that dont work out so neatly end up fading to the margins, outside of a lot of the benefits of being in the center of society. Specifically in western cultures, we have tended to view the margins, in the last few centuries particularly, as somehow inherently deficient, insane.

People have done some things that havent looked so great in history because they came up with extreme solutions in dealing with the marginalized. People seem to in some cases seriously fear the things which they struggle to understand and identify with, and this leads them to some pretty grandiose and desperate solutions. This issue of mental health or perhaps less P.C. retardation is no different.

We have done a lot of ugly things to people, and this portion of the population is no different. Though our skills are now more precise and perhaps our quantifiying is more analytical, you cannot avoid the dark roots that come when you talk about some of the "solutions" to dealing with this segement of the population. Its a dark road indeed.

Some of the most famous thinkers and philosophers for millenia have talked about the true measure of men and women (and by extension society) being how they treat the individuals who are in an inferior position to themselves. Should we fear judgement...and im not sure that we do, the notion of such desperate cures should become completley a relic of times gone, and no longer treated with any seriousness.

[ignotus]

...Siberia is nice in this time of year...

[dustn64]

I was wondering, what do you think about the homeless if you want to get rid of the mentally challenged? Do they serve any purpose more than making your pockets jingle less? Should we just move all them into the sewer and let the water go? or do you think they are people not animals (like you do the challenged) and we should help them and make the world a better place?

[EvilPurpleMonkey]

I was wondering, what do you think about the homeless if you want to get rid of the mentally challenged? Do they serve any purpose more than making your pockets jingle less? Should we just move all them into the sewer and let the water go? or do you think they are people not animals (like you do the challenged) and we should help them and make the world a better place?

Actually, I do believe that the rightfully homeless should be executed. The ones that lost it due to their own mistakes can die, If a company was bought out and some employees were fired and can't find work, they are valuable members to society who merely have no place to go, so we help them find one.

[-ShadySoul-]

Hate to break it to you, but those countries did not join willingly. They were conquered and occupied by the Russians when they were pushing the Nazi forces back. In other words, they wen't from one power-hungry dictator to another. The first man out in space was short-lived, the US soon caught up, and then surpassed by landing on the moon.

As for the Revolutionary War, that was fought because we were not being treated as citezens, nor were we being represented in Parliament. In a way, you could compare it to a country wanting to gain freedom from the USSR. Except we were doing it from the British. And since you bring up Civil War, we weren't aiming at dislodging the Royal Family, we wanted rights. We wanted to be ourselves and were tired of the British government enforcing their laws on us.

I shall continue in a bit. Class is starting.

But what do you think caused the October revolution? the same things....we wanted freedom from tzar's rule, we tried everything, reasoning with him, assassinating him, and just, like you said, dislodging him. So, in no way these two revolutions are the same, you wanted freedom, we wanted freedom, its just that Americans had more rights under the British rule, then the Russians did under tzar's. You already had everything played out in front of you, but we had to go to drastic measures to make our government listen to people.
But if you think that the only way for americans to gain their freedom was to fight, you are wrong, look at Canada, they are free, they got their own parliament and their own seats, their own government, Britain respects them, listens to them, and acknowledges them for the country that Canada is. And what about USA? USA became the worlds dictator, with no one respecting it, nobody liking it, and everyone being afraid of it. But, if you look pact to the aftermath of WW1, how did america gain their status? By being cowards, the war was already won by Allies, and then America decides to get in on the action, but now EVERY major country is in great trouble because they went to great sacrifices to win the war, only to have america come in and claim it all for them. Same thing happened in WW2.

So, before accusing USSR of taking over the countries, think about USA's cowardly ways of taking over the world. In this world the fittest survive and win, seeing as USSR was stronger they took over the countries they had right to posses, seeing as they freed them. And i wouldnt say that living under USSR's rule was such a bad thing, they still got their vote, even if the final word was spoken by Stalin. The countries that before had NO economy or status, were now a part of something big, and powerful, and they were equal before all the other countries under USSR's rule

The short lived victory you say? But how much chaos it caused on the West side of the world? Americans were in panic believing Russians are spying on them from the space, if you dont call that a victory, i dont know what a victory is. Plus, without Russian info, Americans would have never gotten into space, until after the end of Cold war

[-ShadySoul-]

I was wondering, what do you think about the homeless if you want to get rid of the mentally challenged? Do they serve any purpose more than making your pockets jingle less? Should we just move all them into the sewer and let the water go? or do you think they are people not animals (like you do the challenged) and we should help them and make the world a better place?

Actually, I do believe that the rightfully homeless should be executed. The ones that lost it due to their own mistakes can die, If a company was bought out and some employees were fired and can't find work, they are valuable members to society who merely have no place to go, so we help them find one.

QFT, those who dont deserve our sympathy should not get it.

[-ShadySoul-]

i think i might be late as this is going to be jacked into a why capitalism is better than socialism/communism/other isms that get bunched in (which ive been involved in before) and just talk about the original issue.

As societies we tend to try and figure out what its like to be normal, and we establish this as our center. We like the center, it gives us something to reach out to, something to cling on, something to continue working to improve. Those things that dont work out so neatly end up fading to the margins, outside of a lot of the benefits of being in the center of society. Specifically in western cultures, we have tended to view the margins, in the last few centuries particularly, as somehow inherently deficient, insane.

People have done some things that havent looked so great in history because they came up with extreme solutions in dealing with the marginalized. People seem to in some cases seriously fear the things which they struggle to understand and identify with, and this leads them to some pretty grandiose and desperate solutions. This issue of mental health or perhaps less P.C. retardation is no different.

We have done a lot of ugly things to people, and this portion of the population is no different. Though our skills are now more precise and perhaps our quantifiying is more analytical, you cannot avoid the dark roots that come when you talk about some of the "solutions" to dealing with this segement of the population. Its a dark road indeed.

Some of the most famous thinkers and philosophers for millenia have talked about the true measure of men and women (and by extension society) being how they treat the individuals who are in an inferior position to themselves. Should we fear judgement...and im not sure that we do, the notion of such desperate cures should become completley a relic of times gone, and no longer treated with any seriousness.

so what would be your view on this? Letting them live and leave them facing unending discrimination?

[dustn64]

This "KILL THE USELESS" campaign is the easy way out. you would much rather shoot the sick and poor than to actually spend time and effort to find a solution.

[-ShadySoul-]

This "KILL THE USELESS" campaign is the easy way out. you would much rather shoot the sick and poor than to actually spend time and effort to find a solution.

crap
i already forgot my origina lissue
DAMN YOU MTG!

anyway...yes it seems like the easy way it, and it also seems that people through out the history chose this way, over the other. Maybe its not such a big issue? Or maybe this is just the way we were bought up to be, lazy bloody scavengers

[muy_thaiguy]

This "KILL THE USELESS" campaign is the easy way out. you would much rather shoot the sick and poor than to actually spend time and effort to find a solution.

crap
i already forgot my origina lissue
DAMN YOU MTG!

anyway...yes it seems like the easy way it, and it also seems that people through out the history chose this way, over the other. Maybe its not such a big issue? Or maybe this is just the way we were bought up to be, lazy bloody scavengers

That's my skill. Distracting people from the original question/post. I even did it with EvilPurpleMonkey awhile ago.

[EvilPurpleMonkey]

This "KILL THE USELESS" campaign is the easy way out. you would much rather shoot the sick and poor than to actually spend time and effort to find a solution.

Why not kill that which does not benefit humanity? Also, I do believe we should save those who still have a properly functioning brain. Besides, retards and crazy people are a drain on society, and they won't know they're being killed because they're retards and crazy. I fully advocate medical science and advances though, if that was what you were wondering. Also, if a mind doesn't work, the body can't function, if the body can't work, the mind can function. The physically disabled are safe too.

[EvilPurpleMonkey]

This "KILL THE USELESS" campaign is the easy way out. you would much rather shoot the sick and poor than to actually spend time and effort to find a solution.

crap
i already forgot my origina lissue
DAMN YOU MTG!

anyway...yes it seems like the easy way it, and it also seems that people through out the history chose this way, over the other. Maybe its not such a big issue? Or maybe this is just the way we were bought up to be, lazy bloody scavengers

That's my skill. Distracting people from the original question/post. I even did it with EvilPurpleMonkey awhile ago.

Lol, I remember that! Good times.

[-ShadySoul-]

This "KILL THE USELESS" campaign is the easy way out. you would much rather shoot the sick and poor than to actually spend time and effort to find a solution.

Why not kill that which does not benefit humanity? Also, I do believe we should save those who still have a properly functioning brain. Besides, retards and crazy people are a drain on society, and they won't know they're being killed because they're retards and crazy. I fully advocate medical science and advances though, if that was what you were wondering. Also, if a mind doesn't work, the body can't function, if the body can't work, the mind can function. The physically disabled are safe too.

handicaps live

so, out " to kill" list consists of:
1. Retards
2. Crazy People
3. Gay ( thats what i read in few threads)
4. _____ ( Throw any race in here)
5.


keep on expanding....if we however kill all those people our population will go down like 10%