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Thank God Theres A Ron Paul

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Voting for Ron Paul

 
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Postby reverend_kyle on Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:22 am

spurgistan wrote:Oh, and by the way, Wyoming has the 10th highest violent crime rate per capita in the nation, unless the US Census totally just lied to my ass.

Oh, and the way some people are posting, the title of this thread oughta be Thank Ron Paul There's A God. Thanks, I'll be here all week.


reverend_kyle wrote:Shouldn't this say, "thank ron paul there is a god"?


September 28, 4:00 pm. super fastposted your ass.

Back on topic, if he was more for gay rights, and stem cell research I'd possibly vote for him especially in the republican primary(democrats can vote in republican primary in my state).

I like that he's against the free trade fest.
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Postby Neutrino on Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:23 am

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
That is, unfortunately, the case at the moment. But what if it wasn't? What if there wasn't a taboo against guns in public in suburban areas?

Because that's what it is- a taboo. Let's say I'm in a culinary art class. There's likely to be a butcher's knife right next to me. If I had it in my mind to kill someone, I could just as easily kill the guy right next to me with that as I could with a gun.

If I was playing baseball and I wanted to kill someone, I could pick up an aluminum bat and beat his head to a pulp without him looking. One blow would probably do the trick.

Heck, if I'm driving a car and there's a pedestrian in front of me, all it takes is to press my leg down some and they're history.

ANYTHING can be a lethal weapon. Guns just have a bad rep because when you get down to their purpose they're used exclusively as lethal weapons. But a gun could quite easily stop a culinary student gone mad, or a baseball player who struck out one too many times, or a guy with a crazy bad case of road rage.


Yes, guns do have a bad rep, and justifiably so; they are far more deadly than the majority of other potential weapons. A knife has very limited range. Using your example, if for some reason you did decide to go bezerk at that moment, you could kill 2, 3 people, tops, before the remainder noticed and fled or restrained you. Now replay that scenario with a gun. Although reaction time will be vastly decreased (guns are pretty loud) and so the number of people you can kill straight off the bat is also decreaced, you gain the major advantage of being able to kill at a range. With a knife, evasion and flight were effective options, with a gun they are not; you would be able to shoot quite a few people as they fled.
It is also possible to defend ones self from a knife, where it is impossible to defend against a gun. Unless you have the power to stop bullets with your mind, the options for avoiding them are severely limited.

Even a car, while possessing the same ability to kill while you are nigh invulnerable as a gun has the same weakness (assuming deadlyness is a pro, of course) as a knife; all damage must occur up close. While cars are much faster than any human they lack a lot of manuverability that the majority of humaniy takes for granted. Run behind a tree or into a building and there isn't a lot the car can do. Of course, you're unlikely to recieve a lot of warning of an incoming car, but you are equally unlikely to recieve any warning if the person beside you in Culinary Arts class stabs you.


OnlyAmbrose wrote:I disagree. Would a criminal really kick the door in at all if he knew that behind that door were 20 armed civilians? It isn't worth robbing a place if you're not going to survive to spend it.


Yes, the number of amateur crimes (i.e. crimes in which the criminal has no real intention of actually performing violence, merely relying on the threat of it) will fall drastically, but the casualties from those that are will performed will also increace drastically.
Consider the following scenario: you, for whatever reason, wish to rob a bank. You know the bank is full of armed customers but are still detirmined to go through. Do you hold the place up at gunpoint and hope that none of the customers is brave enough to open fire on you, or do you swing the odds hugely in your favor and just walk in there firing?
Sure, you'll kill a lot of people, but at least you will probably remain unharmed.

Yes, the inventive psychopath (or merely angry Arts student) can turn more or less any nearby object into a weapon, but your average, store-bought pistol is a lot more deadly than any of these jury-rigged tools of death can ever hope to be.
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Postby Tyr on Mon Oct 01, 2007 7:01 pm

so your hatred of guns stems from the fact that guns are much more efficient killers provided that the killer is competent and has the balls to go through with it?
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Mon Oct 01, 2007 11:37 pm

I'll respond tomorrow Neutrino, I'm beat and tired of thinking for the day. Just letting you know I'm not ignoring your post. :)
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Postby Neutrino on Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:02 am

OnlyAmbrose wrote:I'll respond tomorrow Neutrino, I'm beat and tired of thinking for the day. Just letting you know I'm not ignoring your post. :)


It's good to know someone cares :lol:
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Postby got tonkaed on Tue Oct 02, 2007 5:04 am

Neutrino wrote:
OnlyAmbrose wrote:I'll respond tomorrow Neutrino, I'm beat and tired of thinking for the day. Just letting you know I'm not ignoring your post. :)


It's good to know someone cares :lol:


neutrino...whats your story? i feel you have the most similar views on most things to me on the forum.
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Postby Neutrino on Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:51 am

got tonkaed wrote:
neutrino...whats your story? i feel you have the most similar views on most things to me on the forum.


Define (I've been using that word a lot more often than usual today) "my story"
My life story? A random story? The story of how I came up with my completely unique views? (That last one is rather more likely than the previous two, but it's almost 11, so I think I'm allowed a little mental bluryness).

Anyway, yes, I have also noticed your encroachment onto my highly unique views, and it is nice to know there is someone out there who thinks straight. :D
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Postby Tyr on Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:34 pm

or 2 crazy ones
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Postby CoffeeCream on Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:53 pm

Ron Paul is a grandstander
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Postby spurgistan on Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:12 pm

a) Dammit Kyle. Just... dammit.

b) My opposition to RP stems less from the fact that he is pro-gun (which is a legitimate, defensible position with Consitutional basis) and more with the fact (stated below) that's he's a freaking nut. However, one question for the pro-gun folks - what do you consider a "well-regulated militia" to consist of? Random Uzi-wielding yokels? Or an actual well-regulated militia?

c) As stated in point b) above my main opposition to a Ron Paul presidency stems from the basic fact that I would say that his platform differs greatly from a non-crazy-person's. Saying that the United States should basically withdraw from the world and then build a biiig wall to make sure nothing can get in... does nobody else find that odd? To say that the US should dismantle it's social services apparatus, is besides being based on Randian political theories that have been just about proven to not work (for reference, see the 1980s) is just a bit nutsy, again. But since he's opposed to the war, ooh la la, libs jump on the crazy bus. Sigh.
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Postby muy_thaiguy on Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:20 pm

spurgistan wrote:a) Dammit Kyle. Just... dammit.

b) My opposition to RP stems less from the fact that he is pro-gun (which is a legitimate, defensible position with Consitutional basis) and more with the fact (stated below) that's he's a freaking nut. However, one question for the pro-gun folks - what do you consider a "well-regulated militia" to consist of? Random Uzi-wielding yokels? Or an actual well-regulated militia?

c) As stated in point b) above my main opposition to a Ron Paul presidency stems from the basic fact that I would say that his platform differs greatly from a non-crazy-person's. Saying that the United States should basically withdraw from the world and then build a biiig wall to make sure nothing can get in... does nobody else find that odd? To say that the US should dismantle it's social services apparatus, is besides being based on Randian political theories that have been just about proven to not work (for reference, see the 1980s) is just a bit nutsy, again. But since he's opposed to the war, ooh la la, libs jump on the crazy bus. Sigh.
Frankly, armor peircing and auto weapons I'm against, but say, hunting rifles and hand guns I don't have problems with. As I have said before, RP ran as a Libertarian, and, still seems to have many Libertarian ideals, some of which are similar to GOP stand points, but they like to have little to no government, legalize weed, etc. In other words, he is more of a Libertarian in disguise then a true GOP. :wink:
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Tue Oct 02, 2007 9:05 pm

Neutrino wrote:Yes, guns do have a bad rep, and justifiably so; they are far more deadly than the majority of other potential weapons. A knife has very limited range. Using your example, if for some reason you did decide to go bezerk at that moment, you could kill 2, 3 people, tops, before the remainder noticed and fled or restrained you. Now replay that scenario with a gun. Although reaction time will be vastly decreased (guns are pretty loud) and so the number of people you can kill straight off the bat is also decreaced, you gain the major advantage of being able to kill at a range. With a knife, evasion and flight were effective options, with a gun they are not; you would be able to shoot quite a few people as they fled.


Wouldn't you say that anyone interested in killing mass amounts of people would go through the trouble to get a gun whether it was legal or not? There's a perfectly healthy market out there for illegal stuff. A sociopath (being the only sort of person, I would argue, psychologically capable of direct mass murder - certainly i think we can agree that your average shmoe wouldn't be able to nonchalantly pick up a gun and systematically killing people) would get his hands on one with the government's consent or not.

That being said, we can assume that anyone who would commit mass murder will find a way to a gun legal or no. That leaves the rest of us.

And the rest of us aren't wired for mass murder. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that one person gets on your nerves to the point that you want to kill them. As I've said before, you don't need a gun to do it, and the fact that people DON'T do it is an indicator that people don't kill other people under normal psychological circumstances.

Neutrino wrote:Yes, the inventive psychopath (or merely angry Arts student) can turn more or less any nearby object into a weapon, but your average, store-bought pistol is a lot more deadly than any of these jury-rigged tools of death can ever hope to be.


Basically to sum up my point: If guns were illegal, your inventive psychopath wouldn't waste his time figuring out less efficient ways to kill people, he'll find a way to a gun. And he'll be a lot more dangerous if no one but him has one.
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Postby Neutrino on Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:50 am

Tyr wrote:or 2 crazy ones


Thank you, Your Magesty.

Would you care to grace this inferior debate with more examples of your scathing wit and amazing intelligence, o Great and Almighty One?
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Postby edgarhons on Wed Oct 03, 2007 3:51 am

I'm a Kucinich supporter, so in some respects Paul fans and I are in total agreement, and in others we're in total disagreement.

The way I feel about guns is this: In some places of America, guns can be tools that put food on the table, bond one with their son/father, or enable one to protect their family. When you grow up reading Washington DC and Baltimore newspapers however, you also see that guns are tools that tear people apart.

The constitution gave the American people the right to bear arms, but with any right comes enormous responsibility. 'Normal' citizens can handle this responsibility well, but those who are felons, terrorists, or mentally unstable can and should not. The idea that anyone should just be able to walk into a store and get a gun with no background check or delay is inappropriate to our species. To ensure that guns are used responsibly and only for the purpose of uniting families, gun control seems to me only rational. Those who want to use guns for safe purposes may be inconvenienced, but only those whose purposes are not so innocent are denied. As long as we can't yell 'Fire' in the movie theater, rational restrictions on the second amendment seem a duty of a people interested in peace.

This isn't a direct response to anyone.

On another note, as a Kucinich supporter, I'm sure you Paul supporters are as frustrated as I am with the mass media's whole notion of "top tier candidates". It annoys me to no end when popular newspapers will print stories claiming that no 'top' candidate wants to get out of Iraq immediately. The fact that Paul, Kucinich, Gravel, and Richardson are invited to the debates is qualification enough to be listed as a 'top candidate'. The nerve of these papers to define for the entire nation who is 'electable' more than a year away from the actual election is beyond reprehensible.

The coverage of the debates is horrible. There's no actual discussion of the topics that were asked, it's all just political analysis, to determine which of the 'top' candidates the media will say won, and thus will have won, the debate. Look at the minority debate that the 'Top 4' candidates missed. In the coverage of that debate, what percentage was devoted to analyzing the Q/A of the event, and what percentage was devoted to analyzing the 4 candidates WHO WERE NOT THERE? If your numbers are 1% and 99%, you're watching the same channels I am...sucks don't it?

I hear so many democrats complaining about things they want in a candidate, and Kucinich fulfills all their needs. Yet they dismiss him as a joke or don't even know who he is, and it's rather depressing. I support Kucinich whether other people will or not, but when other people WOULD BE Kucinich supporters and aren't because of this mass media BS, I throw my hands up in defeat.

I think the 'lower tier' candidates should all combine efforts and work against the papers and these stupid polls. Kucinich supporters alone probably couldn't stage enough protests, but if all the 'fringe' supports got together and picketed a major paper, the numbers could add up.

Now I'm ranting. Bye.
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Postby Neutrino on Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:45 am

OnlyAmbrose wrote:
Wouldn't you say that anyone interested in killing mass amounts of people would go through the trouble to get a gun whether it was legal or not? There's a perfectly healthy market out there for illegal stuff. A sociopath (being the only sort of person, I would argue, psychologically capable of direct mass murder - certainly i think we can agree that your average shmoe wouldn't be able to nonchalantly pick up a gun and systematically killing people) would get his hands on one with the government's consent or not.

That being said, we can assume that anyone who would commit mass murder will find a way to a gun legal or no. That leaves the rest of us.

And the rest of us aren't wired for mass murder. Let's say, hypothetically speaking, that one person gets on your nerves to the point that you want to kill them. As I've said before, you don't need a gun to do it, and the fact that people DON'T do it is an indicator that people don't kill other people under normal psychological circumstances.


Exactly. If a psychopath is determined to go and kill someone, there are really no laws or regulations that are going to stop them. Banning guns in an attempt to eliminate this part of the population is pointless and detrimental: you'll merely be disarming those at risk of being murdered.
However, it isn't the intelligent psychopaths that are the problem. The problem is all the incidental crazies, the angsty teenagers, the robbers, and all those with no idea about gun safety. These are the people who should not be able to walk into K-mart and purchase bullets for the 9mm that they also purchased last week with no background check.

Making all guns illegal will simply hoist those who can get their hands on one into power, but, also, guns should not be so common that any two-bit crook or pissed-off teenager can own one.
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Postby OnlyAmbrose on Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:08 am

I think we're mostly in agreement Neutrino... You said:

Neutrino wrote:Banning guns in an attempt to eliminate this part of the population is pointless and detrimental: you'll merely be disarming those at risk of being murdered.


And I agree 100%

You also said:

Neutrino wrote:These are the people who should not be able to walk into K-mart and purchase bullets for the 9mm that they also purchased last week with no background check.


And I also agree 100%. Who ever said 2nd amendment advocates didn't believe in background checks, age requirements, etc?
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Postby ritz627 on Wed Oct 03, 2007 4:55 pm

Yea, lets vote a former gynecologist into office. Maybe he can figure out how to get our heads out of our asses (same region) and up something else for once. On second thought, I'm voting Obama. Xtra, of all people, I wouldn't think that you would want a "flip-flopper" as president. For shame.
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Postby Tyr on Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:12 pm

yay ron paul
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Postby Nobunaga on Wed Oct 03, 2007 9:30 pm

... I'll vote for anybody not Hillary. (within reason of course).

... 8 years of Clinton already, and it'll be 12 years of the Bush family ...

... Family rule.. we need some new blood.

...
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Postby Tyr on Thu Oct 04, 2007 8:00 pm

last 20 years 2 familys rule the country not good

plus hillary reminds me of cruella devil
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Postby xtratabasco on Sat Oct 06, 2007 10:47 pm

State/Territory column takes you to that state’s elections office or voter information site. Yellow indicates you need to register as a Republican or independent if you want to vote for Ron Paul in the primary. I have also highlighted, in red, states that have a looming deadline.

Every state is different and I can’t fit every detail about every state on a small page so visit your state’s website and contact them if you have questions. One important thing to all the young Ron Paul supporters out there, is that if you are a first time voter you may need to register in person, you can’t just mail in the form, contact your state for more information.

New York and New Hampshire have a party change deadline of October 12th!


http://www.primarilypaul.com/ron-paul-in-the-primaries/
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Postby got tonkaed on Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:11 am

xtratabasco wrote:State/Territory column takes you to that state’s elections office or voter information site. Yellow indicates you need to register as a Republican or independent if you want to vote for Ron Paul in the primary. I have also highlighted, in red, states that have a looming deadline.

Every state is different and I can’t fit every detail about every state on a small page so visit your state’s website and contact them if you have questions. One important thing to all the young Ron Paul supporters out there, is that if you are a first time voter you may need to register in person, you can’t just mail in the form, contact your state for more information.

New York and New Hampshire have a party change deadline of October 12th!


http://www.primarilypaul.com/ron-paul-in-the-primaries/


this is probably the most sensible thing ive seen xtra post maybe ever....

if you really do want ron paul to get elected, you had better show up in the primaries and it is important to know when they are, since a lot of them are getting moved up and some need to be registered for differently.
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Re: Thank God Theres A Ron Paul

Postby xtratabasco on Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:30 pm

xtratabasco wrote:Hes the only one that can beat Hillary



http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig8/herndon4.html


google Ron Paul and research for yourself
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Postby riggable on Sun Oct 14, 2007 8:36 pm

I've been listening and reading up on Ron Paul and I must say he does have some compelling points. Unfortunatly, basically all the things i've been watching and reading have been Pro-Ron Paul in the first place, so I think I'm seeing a One-sided picture. If someone, who actually understand and actually is informed about this, could please give me the argument as to why voting Ron Paul is a bad idea, that would be great.
I'm asking for the common answer for this question, you don't have to agree with it, if you don't want to. Thanks.








I posted this in one of the other ron paul threads, but to no avail. I figure if i spread it around, I might actually get an answer.
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Postby Tyr on Sun Oct 14, 2007 9:51 pm

most anti-pauls would say he wants to eliminate the dep. of edu. and he wants to get rid of entitlement programs. but those arent necessarily bad points
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