Another bad week for Trump

[thegreekdog]

Ah... okay. I have no idea how involved, if at all, the pope was. Or to put it another way, I was using what I thought was legally appropriate language (i.e. "alleged"). Regardless of the pope's involvement, there is clearly an organized effort to hide the abuse, shame the victims, etc... so problematic for the pope regardless of whether he took any direct action.

I'm not sure how he could possibly have gotten to his position as Pope without a a degree of complicity in the scandal.

[ur=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-42745170]Pope Francis 'slander' comment angers Chile abuse victims[/url]

Rooting out the corruption will never start from the head.

I agree.

[spurgistan]

(2) Here's what DeSantis said - "Let's build off the success we've had on Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."

How strange that he took this particular instance to use this phrase for the first time on television or in print.

[thegreekdog]

(2) Here's what DeSantis said - "Let's build off the success we've had on Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."

How strange that he took this particular instance to use this phrase for the first time on television or in print.

I have a novel idea - how about people start trying to win arguments using actual arguments instead of bullshit? How about that?

[warmonger1981]

(2) Here's what DeSantis said - "Let's build off the success we've had on Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."

How strange that he took this particular instance to use this phrase for the first time on television or in print.

I have a novel idea - how about people start trying to win arguments using actual arguments instead of bullshit? How about that?

Agreed.

[Symmetry]

(2) Here's what DeSantis said - "Let's build off the success we've had on Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."

How strange that he took this particular instance to use this phrase for the first time on television or in print.

I have a novel idea - how about people start trying to win arguments using actual arguments instead of bullshit? How about that?

He knew what he was doing. Part of his tactic was getting people to think that it's really unfair for critics to suggest he might be racist. Drop a few racially charged lines in an interview that his campaign team heavily prepped him for. Then make sure his team is ready to tell his base that liberals are "playing the race card", and they could be next.

This is politics, not rocket surgery, TGD. It's not like his team didn't rehearse him on every possible question.

[Evil Semp]

I don't agree with throwing out the race card as often as it is. When I first read his comments and add in some circumstantial evidence I believe he was making a racist remark. He is in Trumps camp and Trump has made a habit of making derogatory comments about other groups. His opponent is a black man. And in this world of political correctness I can't believe he would have said it with any other meaning.

I live in Florida and don't belong to any political party. I vote for who I think will do what is best for the people of our state. I haven't made up my mind yet on who to vote for. I will say this DeSantis is going to have to work harder to convince me to vote for him after his comments.

[spurgistan]

(2) Here's what DeSantis said - "Let's build off the success we've had on Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."

How strange that he took this particular instance to use this phrase for the first time on television or in print.

I have a novel idea - how about people start trying to win arguments using actual arguments instead of bullshit? How about that?

OK. I'm all for no bullshit in honest debate. I'm unclear where there was any in pointing out that DeSantis is never recorded as saying this rather idiom in his life, despite his campaign saying that it's just a thing that he says. How often do you throw down "monkey up" in everyday conversation?

[mookiemcgee]

I generally fall towards the dem side of any given debate, but to me this is the definition of a meaningless smear campaign.

I mean even if he does say it alot, its a phrase that wasn't widely considered racist for most of most peoples lives. I also found this link of democrats using the same phrase in very public settings. Is it that hard to believe that people are talking about actual monkeys and not trying to use a slur? To me this was an innocent non-rehearsed accident, and is very different from when people like trump do it on purpose in a rehearsed way as a dog whistle. DeSantis though, This one is a nothing burger.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/08/30/flashback-heres-a-bunch-of-democrats-saying-monkeying-around-n2514415

In other words, there are a slew of reason not to vote for this moron but this isn't one of them.

[Evil Semp]

I generally fall towards the dem side of any given debate, but to me this is the definition of a meaningless smear campaign.

I mean even if he does say it alot, its a phrase that wasn't widely considered racist for most of most peoples lives. I also found this link of democrats using the same phrase in very public settings. Is it that hard to believe that people are talking about actual monkeys and not trying to use a slur? To me this was an innocent non-rehearsed accident, and is very different from when people like trump do it on purpose in a rehearsed way as a dog whistle. DeSantis though, This one is a nothing burger.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/08/30/flashback-heres-a-bunch-of-democrats-saying-monkeying-around-n2514415

In other words, there are a slew of reason not to vote for this moron but this isn't one of them.

Just saying the words doesn't make it a slur. It is everything involved in the topic of the conversation. Now whether or not it was said deliberately or not is the question.

It might not be the reason to vote for him but but in many peoples minds it will be an obstacle that he will have to over come.

[mookiemcgee]

I generally fall towards the dem side of any given debate, but to me this is the definition of a meaningless smear campaign.

I mean even if he does say it alot, its a phrase that wasn't widely considered racist for most of most peoples lives. I also found this link of democrats using the same phrase in very public settings. Is it that hard to believe that people are talking about actual monkeys and not trying to use a slur? To me this was an innocent non-rehearsed accident, and is very different from when people like trump do it on purpose in a rehearsed way as a dog whistle. DeSantis though, This one is a nothing burger.

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2018/08/30/flashback-heres-a-bunch-of-democrats-saying-monkeying-around-n2514415

In other words, there are a slew of reason not to vote for this moron but this isn't one of them.

Just saying the words doesn't make it a slur. It is everything involved in the topic of the conversation. Now whether or not it was said deliberately or not is the question.

It might not be the reason to vote for him but but in many peoples minds it will be an obstacle that he will have to over come.

I do generally feel an understanding with the folks hurt by words like this, I just don't really feel it has much to do with what kind of politician or leader he would be. I mean he might be a total f*cking racist, just to me this is not evidence of that. This was simply using not oft used term that was considered acceptable pretty much forever until maybe the last 10-15 years. In my opinion he didn't appear to say it deliberately, so it wouldn't affect my opinion as a voter.

[Symmetry]

I've gotta say, mook, you're defence is a bit hamstrung by the fact that I don't think anyone uses the phrase "monkey up".The white nationalists heard the dog whistle loud and clear:

https://nypost.com/2018/09/02/neo-nazis-overload-floridians-with-racist-robocalls-about-black-candidate/

[jonesthecurl]

Yes, I've heard "monkey around" or "Monkey see, monkey do", or "three wise monkeys", but never "monkey up". Feel free to add other "monkey" phrases.

[thegreekdog]

(2) Here's what DeSantis said - "Let's build off the success we've had on Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."

How strange that he took this particular instance to use this phrase for the first time on television or in print.

I have a novel idea - how about people start trying to win arguments using actual arguments instead of bullshit? How about that?

He knew what he was doing. Part of his tactic was getting people to think that it's really unfair for critics to suggest he might be racist. Drop a few racially charged lines in an interview that his campaign team heavily prepped him for. Then make sure his team is ready to tell his base that liberals are "playing the race card", and they could be next.

This is politics, not rocket surgery, TGD. It's not like his team didn't rehearse him on every possible question.

I suppose it could have been a "let's get our opponents upset about me using the word "monkey" in a sentence so that we can say they are playing the race card" idea.

OK. I'm all for no bullshit in honest debate. I'm unclear where there was any in pointing out that DeSantis is never recorded as saying this rather idiom in his life, despite his campaign saying that it's just a thing that he says. How often do you throw down "monkey up" in everyday conversation?

I've never used the term "monkey up." I have used the term "fucked up" and "monkey around" and can see how those two phrases could be combined into "monkey up" or "fucked around." But I'm not here to defend this guy; I don't know him, I am not permitted to vote for him. What I am here to point out is that all 99% of people know about this guy right now is that he used the term "monkey up" because he's racist. Here's Exhibit A:

I don't agree with throwing out the race card as often as it is. When I first read his comments and add in some circumstantial evidence I believe he was making a racist remark. He is in Trumps camp and Trump has made a habit of making derogatory comments about other groups. His opponent is a black man. And in this world of political correctness I can't believe he would have said it with any other meaning.

I live in Florida and don't belong to any political party. I vote for who I think will do what is best for the people of our state. I haven't made up my mind yet on who to vote for. I will say this DeSantis is going to have to work harder to convince me to vote for him after his comments.

So why work toward convincing people that your side is better when all you have to do is say "racist" and you convince people to join your side?

[Symmetry]

(2) Here's what DeSantis said - "Let's build off the success we've had on Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."

How strange that he took this particular instance to use this phrase for the first time on television or in print.

I have a novel idea - how about people start trying to win arguments using actual arguments instead of bullshit? How about that?

He knew what he was doing. Part of his tactic was getting people to think that it's really unfair for critics to suggest he might be racist. Drop a few racially charged lines in an interview that his campaign team heavily prepped him for. Then make sure his team is ready to tell his base that liberals are "playing the race card", and they could be next.

This is politics, not rocket surgery, TGD. It's not like his team didn't rehearse him on every possible question.

I suppose it could have been a "let's get our opponents upset about me using the word "monkey" in a sentence so that we can say they are playing the race card" idea.

OK. I'm all for no bullshit in honest debate. I'm unclear where there was any in pointing out that DeSantis is never recorded as saying this rather idiom in his life, despite his campaign saying that it's just a thing that he says. How often do you throw down "monkey up" in everyday conversation?

I've never used the term "monkey up." I have used the term "fucked up" and "monkey around" and can see how those two phrases could be combined into "monkey up" or "fucked around." But I'm not here to defend this guy; I don't know him, I am not permitted to vote for him. What I am here to point out is that all 99% of people know about this guy right now is that he used the term "monkey up" because he's racist. Here's Exhibit A:

I don't agree with throwing out the race card as often as it is. When I first read his comments and add in some circumstantial evidence I believe he was making a racist remark. He is in Trumps camp and Trump has made a habit of making derogatory comments about other groups. His opponent is a black man. And in this world of political correctness I can't believe he would have said it with any other meaning.

I live in Florida and don't belong to any political party. I vote for who I think will do what is best for the people of our state. I haven't made up my mind yet on who to vote for. I will say this DeSantis is going to have to work harder to convince me to vote for him after his comments.

So why work toward convincing people that your side is better when all you have to do is say "racist" and you convince people to join your side?

The thing is, this is news entirely generated by De Santis. You can't tell me that using the term wouldn't generate coverage. He got what he wanted. Andrew Gillum is a fine candidate, and the people who opposed him because he was left of centre won't hear the dog whistle, but will be energised by the the whole "he played the race card" against an innocent conservative idea.

Those that opposed him because he's African-American heard the call, and acted on it, so he has plausible deniability, and even if he apologises late, the racists won't believe him- they'll know he's just doing it because of the "liberal media".

It's quite a clever tactic when you think about it.

As for Andrew Gillum, he chose to ignore it and promote his own message. I'm genuinely not sure if that's a good idea or not, but is a political reality for minority candidates.

Yet another example of the right playing identity politics, TGD.

[Evil Semp]

(2) Here's what DeSantis said - "Let's build off the success we've had on Governor Scott. The last thing we need to do is monkey this up by trying to embrace a socialist agenda with huge tax increases bankrupting the state. That is not going to work."

How strange that he took this particular instance to use this phrase for the first time on television or in print.

I have a novel idea - how about people start trying to win arguments using actual arguments instead of bullshit? How about that?

He knew what he was doing. Part of his tactic was getting people to think that it's really unfair for critics to suggest he might be racist. Drop a few racially charged lines in an interview that his campaign team heavily prepped him for. Then make sure his team is ready to tell his base that liberals are "playing the race card", and they could be next.

This is politics, not rocket surgery, TGD. It's not like his team didn't rehearse him on every possible question.

I suppose it could have been a "let's get our opponents upset about me using the word "monkey" in a sentence so that we can say they are playing the race card" idea.

OK. I'm all for no bullshit in honest debate. I'm unclear where there was any in pointing out that DeSantis is never recorded as saying this rather idiom in his life, despite his campaign saying that it's just a thing that he says. How often do you throw down "monkey up" in everyday conversation?

I've never used the term "monkey up." I have used the term "fucked up" and "monkey around" and can see how those two phrases could be combined into "monkey up" or "fucked around." But I'm not here to defend this guy; I don't know him, I am not permitted to vote for him. What I am here to point out is that all 99% of people know about this guy right now is that he used the term "monkey up" because he's racist. Here's Exhibit A:

I don't agree with throwing out the race card as often as it is. When I first read his comments and add in some circumstantial evidence I believe he was making a racist remark. He is in Trumps camp and Trump has made a habit of making derogatory comments about other groups. His opponent is a black man. And in this world of political correctness I can't believe he would have said it with any other meaning.

I live in Florida and don't belong to any political party. I vote for who I think will do what is best for the people of our state. I haven't made up my mind yet on who to vote for. I will say this DeSantis is going to have to work harder to convince me to vote for him after his comments.

So why work toward convincing people that your side is better when all you have to do is say "racist" and you convince people to join your side?

Your exhibit A assumes that I think he is a racist. Exhibit A says I think he is influenced by Trump. In fact isn't that a Trump tactic? Say something and have your PR staff say it was taken out of context? I haven't been convinced to join any side. I will wait and see what both candidates have to say during their campaigns.

[Symmetry]

ES- the campaign has already begun. One of them went went on Fox news and said that Gillum would "monkey up" politics if elected.

Fox News host Laura Ingraham took a stand and demanded an apology, of course... from Gillum.

LAURA INGRAHAM SAYS RON DESANTIS SHOULD 'DEMAND APOLOGY' FROM OPPONENT HE MADE RACIST COMMENT ABOUT

Now Andrew Gillum is a decent guy and I hope that you agree that he has nothing to apologise for. His campaign, as far as I can tell, is mostly about the issues.

[thegreekdog]

Your exhibit A assumes that I think he is a racist. Exhibit A says I think he is influenced by Trump. In fact isn't that a Trump tactic? Say something and have your PR staff say it was taken out of context? I haven't been convinced to join any side. I will wait and see what both candidates have to say during their campaigns.

I think you're giving weight ("he will have to work harder") to the theory that he is racist because he used the term "monkey up" which DeSanctis said he did not mean as a racist attack on his opponent. I suppose you could choose to believe that he said it purposefully to unite some racist element of voters in Florida but I choose to believe that he did not use it to be purposefully racist. If you told me "he's associated with Trump and I don't like Trump" that would make a lot more sense to me.

The thing is, this is news entirely generated by De Santis. You can't tell me that using the term wouldn't generate coverage. He got what he wanted. Andrew Gillum is a fine candidate, and the people who opposed him because he was left of centre won't hear the dog whistle, but will be energised by the the whole "he played the race card" against an innocent conservative idea.

Those that opposed him because he's African-American heard the call, and acted on it, so he has plausible deniability, and even if he apologises late, the racists won't believe him- they'll know he's just doing it because of the "liberal media".

It's quite a clever tactic when you think about it.

As for Andrew Gillum, he chose to ignore it and promote his own message. I'm genuinely not sure if that's a good idea or not, but is a political reality for minority candidates.

Yet another example of the right playing identity politics, TGD.

The news was not generated by Desanctis; he said the word, but he did not use it to refer to his opponent in a racially derogatory way. Some elements of the media painted its usage that way, without referring even to the full quote. He has indicated on numerous occasions that he did not intend it as racism. Gillum has ignored inasmuch as he correctly said he doesn't want the election to deal with racial issues.

Assuming that Desanctis did this on purpose, it also doesn't make sense. Any white supremacist that will vote in Florida will presumably not be voting for a black man. Any normal, middle-of-the-road voter will presumably vote for the person who best represents his/her interests or who he/she likes; most people that are middle-of-the-road don't like voting for people who are alleged racists (I'm assuming). So if Desanctis used the term as a racial dog whistle he loses out on those middle-of-the-road voters while gaining nothing.

[Symmetry]

Your exhibit A assumes that I think he is a racist. Exhibit A says I think he is influenced by Trump. In fact isn't that a Trump tactic? Say something and have your PR staff say it was taken out of context? I haven't been convinced to join any side. I will wait and see what both candidates have to say during their campaigns.

I think you're giving weight ("he will have to work harder") to the theory that he is racist because he used the term "monkey up" which DeSanctis said he did not mean as a racist attack on his opponent. I suppose you could choose to believe that he said it purposefully to unite some racist element of voters in Florida but I choose to believe that he did not use it to be purposefully racist. If you told me "he's associated with Trump and I don't like Trump" that would make a lot more sense to me.

The thing is, this is news entirely generated by De Santis. You can't tell me that using the term wouldn't generate coverage. He got what he wanted. Andrew Gillum is a fine candidate, and the people who opposed him because he was left of centre won't hear the dog whistle, but will be energised by the the whole "he played the race card" against an innocent conservative idea.

Those that opposed him because he's African-American heard the call, and acted on it, so he has plausible deniability, and even if he apologises late, the racists won't believe him- they'll know he's just doing it because of the "liberal media".

It's quite a clever tactic when you think about it.

As for Andrew Gillum, he chose to ignore it and promote his own message. I'm genuinely not sure if that's a good idea or not, but is a political reality for minority candidates.

Yet another example of the right playing identity politics, TGD.

The news was not generated by Desanctis; he said the word, but he did not use it to refer to his opponent in a racially derogatory way. Some elements of the media painted its usage that way, without referring even to the full quote. He has indicated on numerous occasions that he did not intend it as racism. Gillum has ignored inasmuch as he correctly said he doesn't want the election to deal with racial issues.

Assuming that Desanctis did this on purpose, it also doesn't make sense. Any white supremacist that will vote in Florida will presumably not be voting for a black man. Any normal, middle-of-the-road voter will presumably vote for the person who best represents his/her interests or who he/she likes; most people that are middle-of-the-road don't like voting for people who are alleged racists (I'm assuming). So if Desanctis used the term as a racial dog whistle he loses out on those middle-of-the-road voters while gaining nothing.

He wins middle of the road voters by saying that his opponent played the race card. He didn't, obviously, but you're still saying that Andrew Gillum should focus on his campaign. Which he did.

You bought in to the trick, TGD.

Interesting Freudian slip by the way-

Desanctis

[thegreekdog]

Your exhibit A assumes that I think he is a racist. Exhibit A says I think he is influenced by Trump. In fact isn't that a Trump tactic? Say something and have your PR staff say it was taken out of context? I haven't been convinced to join any side. I will wait and see what both candidates have to say during their campaigns.

I think you're giving weight ("he will have to work harder") to the theory that he is racist because he used the term "monkey up" which DeSanctis said he did not mean as a racist attack on his opponent. I suppose you could choose to believe that he said it purposefully to unite some racist element of voters in Florida but I choose to believe that he did not use it to be purposefully racist. If you told me "he's associated with Trump and I don't like Trump" that would make a lot more sense to me.

The thing is, this is news entirely generated by De Santis. You can't tell me that using the term wouldn't generate coverage. He got what he wanted. Andrew Gillum is a fine candidate, and the people who opposed him because he was left of centre won't hear the dog whistle, but will be energised by the the whole "he played the race card" against an innocent conservative idea.

Those that opposed him because he's African-American heard the call, and acted on it, so he has plausible deniability, and even if he apologises late, the racists won't believe him- they'll know he's just doing it because of the "liberal media".

It's quite a clever tactic when you think about it.

As for Andrew Gillum, he chose to ignore it and promote his own message. I'm genuinely not sure if that's a good idea or not, but is a political reality for minority candidates.

Yet another example of the right playing identity politics, TGD.

The news was not generated by Desanctis; he said the word, but he did not use it to refer to his opponent in a racially derogatory way. Some elements of the media painted its usage that way, without referring even to the full quote. He has indicated on numerous occasions that he did not intend it as racism. Gillum has ignored inasmuch as he correctly said he doesn't want the election to deal with racial issues.

Assuming that Desanctis did this on purpose, it also doesn't make sense. Any white supremacist that will vote in Florida will presumably not be voting for a black man. Any normal, middle-of-the-road voter will presumably vote for the person who best represents his/her interests or who he/she likes; most people that are middle-of-the-road don't like voting for people who are alleged racists (I'm assuming). So if Desanctis used the term as a racial dog whistle he loses out on those middle-of-the-road voters while gaining nothing.

He wins middle of the road voters by saying that his opponent played the race card. He didn't, obviously, but you're still saying that Andrew Gillum should focus on his campaign. Which he did.

You bought in to the trick, TGD.

Interesting Freudian slip by the way-

Desanctis

I actually thought his name was Desanctis; so it was more a "TGD is stupid" than Freudian slip.

I never said Andrew Gillum should focus on the campaign. He has never not focused on the campaign. My issue has nothing to do with Gillum and everything to do with the people who said Desantis was using a racially charged word purposefully (which, as far as I know, Gillum did not assert). These are the same people that are saying right now that a White House staffer purposefully used a white power of hand sign during the Kavanaugh hearings.

[Symmetry]

Your exhibit A assumes that I think he is a racist. Exhibit A says I think he is influenced by Trump. In fact isn't that a Trump tactic? Say something and have your PR staff say it was taken out of context? I haven't been convinced to join any side. I will wait and see what both candidates have to say during their campaigns.

I think you're giving weight ("he will have to work harder") to the theory that he is racist because he used the term "monkey up" which DeSanctis said he did not mean as a racist attack on his opponent. I suppose you could choose to believe that he said it purposefully to unite some racist element of voters in Florida but I choose to believe that he did not use it to be purposefully racist. If you told me "he's associated with Trump and I don't like Trump" that would make a lot more sense to me.

The thing is, this is news entirely generated by De Santis. You can't tell me that using the term wouldn't generate coverage. He got what he wanted. Andrew Gillum is a fine candidate, and the people who opposed him because he was left of centre won't hear the dog whistle, but will be energised by the the whole "he played the race card" against an innocent conservative idea.

Those that opposed him because he's African-American heard the call, and acted on it, so he has plausible deniability, and even if he apologises late, the racists won't believe him- they'll know he's just doing it because of the "liberal media".

It's quite a clever tactic when you think about it.

As for Andrew Gillum, he chose to ignore it and promote his own message. I'm genuinely not sure if that's a good idea or not, but is a political reality for minority candidates.

Yet another example of the right playing identity politics, TGD.

The news was not generated by Desanctis; he said the word, but he did not use it to refer to his opponent in a racially derogatory way. Some elements of the media painted its usage that way, without referring even to the full quote. He has indicated on numerous occasions that he did not intend it as racism. Gillum has ignored inasmuch as he correctly said he doesn't want the election to deal with racial issues.

Assuming that Desanctis did this on purpose, it also doesn't make sense. Any white supremacist that will vote in Florida will presumably not be voting for a black man. Any normal, middle-of-the-road voter will presumably vote for the person who best represents his/her interests or who he/she likes; most people that are middle-of-the-road don't like voting for people who are alleged racists (I'm assuming). So if Desanctis used the term as a racial dog whistle he loses out on those middle-of-the-road voters while gaining nothing.

He wins middle of the road voters by saying that his opponent played the race card. He didn't, obviously, but you're still saying that Andrew Gillum should focus on his campaign. Which he did.

You bought in to the trick, TGD.

Interesting Freudian slip by the way-

Desanctis

I actually thought his name was Desanctis; so it was more a "TGD is stupid" than Freudian slip.

I never said Andrew Gillum should focus on the campaign. He has never not focused on the campaign. My issue has nothing to do with Gillum and everything to do with the people who said Desantis was using a racially charged word purposefully (which, as far as I know, Gillum did not assert). These are the same people that are saying right now that a White House staffer purposefully used a white power of hand sign during the Kavanaugh hearings.

You're clearly not a stupid guy, TGD, but it's also clear you didn't really look in to this before you jerked your knee.

[mookiemcgee]

I don't think

I think we all knew this about you already, but plenty of people including my grandfather use(d) the phrase. Considering my grandfather fought actual German Nazi's in WWII, I have to ask... Are you calling my grandpa a Nazi because he used the phrase "monkey up"?

[mookiemcgee]

I mean if a senator tomorrow makes a comment about shocking the monkey, is that going to be considered racist? Does that make Peter Gabrial a racist? Can we even talk about monkeys anymore without it always being assumed the reference is about black people?

[Symmetry]

I don't think

I think we all knew this about you already, but plenty of people including my grandfather use(d) the phrase. Considering my grandfather fought actual German Nazi's in WWII, I have to ask... Are you calling my grandpa a Nazi because he used the phrase "monkey up"?

You barely remember what I wrote in this thread, mate.

Trusting you on historical accuracy would be like trusting mookiemcgee with a Symmetry quote.

[betiko]

it lookslike it s gonna be yet another bad week for trump

[Symmetry]

it lookslike it s gonna be yet another bad week for trump

I'm not sure he's had a good one yet. This week saw the previews of Woodward's book, which confirmed that almost everyone who works with Trump thinks he's a moron, and this weird little nugget from a Trump aide:

I Am Part of the Resistance Inside the Trump Administration

President Trump is facing a test to his presidency unlike any faced by a modern American leader.

It’s not just that the special counsel looms large. Or that the country is bitterly divided over Mr. Trump’s leadership. Or even that his party might well lose the House to an opposition hellbent on his downfall.

The dilemma — which he does not fully grasp — is that many of the senior officials in his own administration are working diligently from within to frustrate parts of his agenda and his worst inclinations.

I would know. I am one of them.

To be clear, ours is not the popular “resistance” of the left. We want the administration to succeed and think that many of its policies have already made America safer and more prosperous.

But we believe our first duty is to this country, and the president continues to act in a manner that is detrimental to the health of our republic.