Does the United Kingdom need to be repaired?

[flashleg8]

Can I ask something a bit off topic to the Britons in this thread? If in the near future, ethnic Britons were to become a minority in the UK, would you have a problem with that or not?

And also do you feel that Britain is losing part of its identity because of immigration...and if yes what do you suggest?

I would echo the sentiments of Guiscard really, just to add that I personally feel that modern Britain gains so much from its multicultural mix - we have a long tradition of welcoming immigrants and allowing them to retain their heritage and culture while also absorbing what they can offer into mainstream society (I would point to the Jewish immigration early 1900's to London especially and the large Italian influx post WW2 along with the Indian subcontinent and Afro Caribbean in the 60's). I strongly feel that Britain gains from having a more ethnically and culturally diverse population - not just from having a Curry house and an Ice cream parlour (as some people think) but to their contribution to Art, Music, Fashion, Literature and most of all giving us a wider view of the world. This I feel is one good thing we have managed to salvage from our imperial past.
I am not disputing we have (and will have) problems with our immigration policy, but I feel the "multicultural" approach we use is superior to the "assimilation" approach used by France. They would teach that every immigrant is French and should adopt French language and culture. We on the other had would promote the idea of Dual Identity - in this I mean someone can equally be British and also Indian retaining elements of both cultures. This approach was used in Britain right back to the joining of the union, in this respect I have no problems expressing both my Scottishness and my Britishness (and indeed a European!). This I believe leads (in most cases) to the all parts of the population feeling included in society, not marginalised like some sections of the French immigrant population (especially the North Africans in the past inner city riots). I'm not saying we are perfect but I do think this is the way forward - if people feel excluded from society, or that their culture/heritage is being eradicated, they will be more likely to look for extreme methods to redress the balance.

(P.S. please excuse the rambling post if I'm going a bit OT - I'm trying to readjust to night shift hours!)

[Titanic]

Guiscard, I live in Loughborough.

[Dariune]

I think Britian isnt fallen but due to poor choices high up and poor expenditure that yes we are falling.
Our entire goverment process is a sham. ( i think the same for America they just got more resources to burn than us)
And i think the English people have lost all pride in our country.
Just an opinion, now come tear it apart

[Guiscard]

I think Britian isnt fallen but due to poor choices high up and poor expenditure that yes we are falling.
Our entire goverment process is a sham. ( i think the same for America they just got more resources to burn than us)
And i think the English people have lost all pride in our country.
Just an opinion, now come tear it apart

Examples of these poor choices? Don't say Iraq because we're not falling apart over that, its just wrong. What particularly poor expenditure has there been? I thought most people considered Brown's time as chancellor to have been a pretty productive, stable and successful one economically, whatever the politics involved.

I've not lost all pride and I don't think others have either. Its just the daily mail telling you you have.

[juggernaut man]

How can you comment as an American when you don't live or work here?

and you people think you can comment on America in that one post when you don't live or work in America.

[edmundomcpot]

And i think the English people have lost all pride in our country.

Tis a shame. Although i do think its what they like to show on the outside, on the inside everone has patritism burning deep down

[Guiscard]

How can you comment as an American when you don't live or work here?

and you people think you can comment on America in that one post when you don't live or work in America.

Which one post? 2Dimes was saying some pretty ignorant and specific things about a situation he is not effected by. My posts regarding America either concern things I've studied in great depth (e.g. international relations), things that concern the rest of the world or an attack on ignorant racism and islamaphobia. Other Americans have posted in this thread, or asked questions, and haven't been flamed because they were sensible. I wouldn't comment on lots of areas of American life, for example education, because I don't know enough about it and have not had enough experience of the subject to make a valid contribution.

[RenegadePaddy]

Lots of rubbish.

Am I the only person concerned that under occupation, this guy has teacher?

[juggernaut man]

oh ok cool.

[RenegadePaddy]

Personal Views for shredding:

Proportional representation:
Nice idea, but has many problems, mainly to do with wether people vote for the Party or the Candidate.

For example, I live in a constituency that is Lib Dem, and probably always will be (UK people, Brum is my Uni, not my home, before you get confused). The only real threat to them there are the Tories. Our neighbouring constituency is Labour, with Tories in second tight, and Liberals off the map.

Now, I voted according to Party at the last election, simply because the candidates for me were faceless and uninspiring. However, if I'd lived in the neighbouring constituency, I'd have voted for a different party, as their candidate is actually one of the most hard-working MPs I've ever heard about and met (even if he does get some important things wrong).

Now, assuming I was in this neighbouring constituency, and PR was brought in, I'd have a problem in that the candidate I want for my local area is not from the party I want running the country.

I feel many who are smart enough to think for themselves rather than vote how their newspaper tells them would be in a similar situation, plus in a PR system, marketting of a party is more important than having strong candidates who can get to grips with local issues, which in theory at least should be how our current system works.

[Guiscard]

Personal Views for shredding:

Proportional representation:
Nice idea, but has many problems, mainly to do with wether people vote for the Party or the Candidate.

For example, I live in a constituency that is Lib Dem, and probably always will be (UK people, Brum is my Uni, not my home, before you get confused). The only real threat to them there are the Tories. Our neighbouring constituency is Labour, with Tories in second tight, and Liberals off the map.

Now, I voted according to Party at the last election, simply because the candidates for me were faceless and uninspiring. However, if I'd lived in the neighbouring constituency, I'd have voted for a different party, as their candidate is actually one of the most hard-working MPs I've ever heard about and met (even if he does get some important things wrong).

Now, assuming I was in this neighbouring constituency, and PR was brought in, I'd have a problem in that the candidate I want for my local area is not from the party I want running the country.

I feel many who are smart enough to think for themselves rather than vote how their newspaper tells them would be in a similar situation, plus in a PR system, marketting of a party is more important than having strong candidates who can get to grips with local issues, which in theory at least should be how our current system works.

Very good points.

[Stopper]

Now, assuming I was in this neighbouring constituency, and PR was brought in, I'd have a problem in that the candidate I want for my local area is not from the party I want running the country.

In the Scottish system of PR, you can vote for your preferred candidate for your local seat, and then you vote for a party for your "top-up" seat. Unless I'm very much mistaken (since I've never voted in Scotland), each vote can be for different parties. So the issue wouldn't really arise.

There are many different systems of PR (the European elections and the Northern Ireland council elections are both different too), so issues to do with individual candidates aren't necessarily a problem.

BTW I would say the majority of people vote according to party, and not candidate (and I personally would argue that's the way it should be), and FPTP ensures that the vast majority of people either have to pick a different party, or effectively chuck their votes away completely.

[Stopper]

Other Americans have posted in this thread, or asked questions, and haven't been flamed because they were sensible.

Which American was that, then? I must have missed them!

[JimmyA7]

I'm English and the UK is in need of some serious repair. Those of you who think it's all rosy probably live in peaceful white little villages and think multi culturalism means tasty varied food and a cheap plumber. Try living in East London or in many of our other towns and cities blighted by this failed social engineering experiment. The more people turn a blind eye to peoples genuine concerns the further down the road to mass civil unrest. The future's bleak, very bleak.

[Guiscard]

I'm English and the UK is in need of some serious repair. Those of you who think it's all rosy probably live in peaceful white little villages and think multi culturalism means tasty varied food and a cheap plumber. Try living in East London or in many of our other towns and cities blighted by this failed social engineering experiment. The more people turn a blind eye to peoples genuine concerns the further down the road to mass civil unrest. The future's bleak, very bleak.

I live on the Blenheim estate in Leeds... Our local Londis is opposite the Sudanese community centre.

Give us some personal examples of what you're talking about. I know exactly what multiculturalism means. I think you've paid too much attention to Cameron's latest speech.

[Stopper]

Must say, I've never worked out what multiculturalism means, exactly. If it means that people of different races & religions have equal rights, then surely that is implied in general human rights, anyway.

These days, it seems to me that the word is often used as thinly-veiled racism (as in blaming "multiculturalism" when the actual object is people of other races), or, more often, as a meaningless straw-man, like "political correctness".

[Guiscard]

To me, multiculturalism is the concept of letting people keep hold of the values and traditions they bring from their mother country / race etc. and sort of adding it all into a big mixing pot of Britishness.

Its easier to see if you contrast it with the example someone gave earlier of France where you either assimilate and become French, speak French, French culture etc. or you're out.

It has certainly become something of a Conservative whipping boy, and people use the word to symbolise a sort of opposition to 'Britishness', but that's just semantics.

[2dimes]

Blah blah blah. I don't like the religious guy that's a different religion from this other religious guy.

Waaa waa waa no body cares, that stuff is rubbish and just not important to anyone.

Ok time for some real issues here.

I think it's utter pants that they are moving such a glorious institution out of the country. I really don't see any alternative either. Sure you youngsters can switch over to "daddies" but what of the older generation like Heavy Cola, us people that have had the same thing their whole life. I say something has to be done, even though I fear it's too late.

Yes people "House of parlament" brand brown sauce must be produced in the same place it allways has been or this key stone of the economy will allow everything to fall.

P.S. americans don't have it in their country most don't know what brown sauce is.

I'm sure I speak for everyone when I ask What the f*ck are you chatting about?

I'm trying to warn you, Hienz is going to flanten your economy!
Click the picture and read the may 11th blog entry.

[2dimes]

Wow am I an ingnoramous!

The HP actually stands for Harry Palmer.

Well you can allways learn something if you look around.

[Guiscard]

It would have made more sense if you had actually mentioned Brown Sauce in your post...

Also that link is dead.

Although I still don't really know what the hell you're on about...

[2dimes]

I did mention "brown sauce" in my post right there after I mistakenly called it by the wrong brand name.

Yeah that link doesn't work, strange because I lifted it right from the top of where I was reading it.

[2dimes]

Here's a new link.
http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/ ... q=HP+sauce

[Guiscard]

sorry i meant HP sauce...

Still, care to just summarise what on earth you're on about???????

[2dimes]

Seriously?

[Guiscard]

Well yeh... obviously I know what brown sauce is, I'm British, but all I get with the link is a list of articles about a plan to move the HP factory abroad... not a huge amount to do with the discussion - there are much bigger industrial moves which effect British life - rover, the airline unions etc. etc.