1756237218
1756237218 Conquer Club • View topic - BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN SHOWN IN SCHOOL
Conquer Club

BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN SHOWN IN SCHOOL

\\OFF-TOPIC// conversations about everything that has nothing to do with Conquer Club.

Moderator: Community Team

Forum rules
Please read the Community Guidelines before posting.

Postby Iliad on Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:21 am

Jenos Ridan wrote:
debra79 wrote:Ok, as for the homophobic gay jay, what ever happened to preaching about acceptance of all God's children?


"Love the sinner (in a platonic, 'peace and good will towards all mankind' sort of way), but hate the sin". Any church worth being in existance will send the same message. And those that don't, can hardly claim to be christians. Hatred of your fellows is as un-Godly as any other sin, no matter what they did wrong.

However, it seems only Jay is being labeled a homophobe. Isn't being called such just as hateful as the supposed hate he has for homosexuals? How dare any of the stone-throwers here call him hateful when you're going most of the hating. So he thinks it is a sin. If you trully believe the there is no God, then why do you care what he thinks? Honestly, why? It shouldn't matter to you so much.

the fact that matters is that jay is being a thick loser.
Just citing some ancient book is not an argument and gets old and very annoying really quickly.
User avatar
Private 1st Class Iliad
 
Posts: 10394
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:48 am

Postby Jenos Ridan on Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:28 am

Iliad wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:
debra79 wrote:Ok, as for the homophobic gay jay, what ever happened to preaching about acceptance of all God's children?


"Love the sinner (in a platonic, 'peace and good will towards all mankind' sort of way), but hate the sin". Any church worth being in existance will send the same message. And those that don't, can hardly claim to be christians. Hatred of your fellows is as un-Godly as any other sin, no matter what they did wrong.

However, it seems only Jay is being labeled a homophobe. Isn't being called such just as hateful as the supposed hate he has for homosexuals? How dare any of the stone-throwers here call him hateful when you're going most of the hating. So he thinks it is a sin. If you trully believe the there is no God, then why do you care what he thinks? Honestly, why? It shouldn't matter to you so much.


the fact that matters is that jay is being a thick loser.
Just citing some ancient book is not an argument and gets old and very annoying really quickly.


As a christian, I would argue that the Bible is the only platform we 'Jesus Freaks' can argue from. But still, if our views are so backwards, then leave us there. We're not interested in living the way this world wishes to go and that is that. It shouldn't be such a big patch of skin off of your collective noses.
"There is only one road to peace, and that is to conquer"-Hunter Clark

"Give a man a fire and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he will be warm for the rest of his life"- Something Hunter would say
User avatar
Private Jenos Ridan
 
Posts: 1310
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 11:34 am
Location: Hanger 18

Postby got tonkaed on Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:30 am

Jenos Ridan wrote:
However, it seems only Jay is being labeled a homophobe. Isn't being called such just as hateful as the supposed hate he has for homosexuals? How dare any of the stone-throwers here call him hateful when you're going most of the hating. So he thinks it is a sin. If you trully believe the there is no God, then why do you care what he thinks? Honestly, why? It shouldn't matter to you so much.


I dont necesarily disagree with what you have said. However, as luns would put it, (and probably correctly again) jay and others who hold the view that homosexuality is a sin, and is therefore apart from what they concieve to be right morality, take some of the flack for other people who many have expeirenced throughout their life expeirences. For what its worth, i dont know how jay would act in the presents of a gay person. But i can comment a little bit about why such stances are possibly homophobic, and why believe that homosexuality is a sin should be seen as problematic.

We simply dont live in our own neat cookie cutter worlds. Chances are at somepoint those with anti-gay views are going to come into contact with people who are gay. Now its hard to believe that over a long enough period of time, that certain people would not act inappropriately and harass they people they disagreed with. Now this may be right within their own belief system, as if it is possible some groups will try to convert the sinner, but its becoming increasingly less ok in the general society. And as views evolve in society, those with views seen as retroactive (as i believe those who dont believe homosexuality is a sin, would see people that do as) then they must be prepared for some kind of backlash. something perhaps of the notion for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Is this type of mentality best for human interaction...no of course it isnt. One would hope that anyone (christian or not) could learn a bit from the notion of turning the other cheek. However both sides of the issue can at times take some fairly personally invested stances that are hurtful. Perhaps the bits of backlash jay and others get is simply teh general group trying to return to some bit of balance. and most likely this is what occurs in the general society at large. Anti-gay views arent popular right now, and those who have them should probably expect to find that others feel their views must be counteracted, and counteracted strongly. At least thats what i would assume is often going to be the case.
User avatar
Cadet got tonkaed
 
Posts: 5034
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: Detroit

Postby got tonkaed on Tue Jun 05, 2007 2:32 am

Jenos Ridan wrote:
Iliad wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:
debra79 wrote:Ok, as for the homophobic gay jay, what ever happened to preaching about acceptance of all God's children?


"Love the sinner (in a platonic, 'peace and good will towards all mankind' sort of way), but hate the sin". Any church worth being in existance will send the same message. And those that don't, can hardly claim to be christians. Hatred of your fellows is as un-Godly as any other sin, no matter what they did wrong.

However, it seems only Jay is being labeled a homophobe. Isn't being called such just as hateful as the supposed hate he has for homosexuals? How dare any of the stone-throwers here call him hateful when you're going most of the hating. So he thinks it is a sin. If you trully believe the there is no God, then why do you care what he thinks? Honestly, why? It shouldn't matter to you so much.


the fact that matters is that jay is being a thick loser.
Just citing some ancient book is not an argument and gets old and very annoying really quickly.


As a christian, I would argue that the Bible is the only platform we 'Jesus Freaks' can argue from. But still, if our views are so backwards, then leave us there. We're not interested in living the way this world wishes to go and that is that. It shouldn't be such a big patch of skin off of your collective noses.


again, although i know you dont mean to stretch the analogy this far....how do you respond to the notion then....well why dont christians actually seperate themselves from the world. You could of course respond that you are supposed to be in the world but not part of it, but then of course one might respond that you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Just playing a bit of the devils advocate.
User avatar
Cadet got tonkaed
 
Posts: 5034
Joined: Wed Nov 29, 2006 9:01 pm
Location: Detroit

Postby jay_a2j on Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:44 am

Neutrino wrote:
In case you havent noticed, all your examples involve someone forcing something on someone else. Homosexuality is not like that. It is fully consensual (and if it isnt, it is clacified as rape).

Why dont you get this? Its voluntary.
Your examples are not and are therefore crimes.

Please, please, explain to us mere mortals exactly how slavery is not a sin. How was it not a sin to stick all those African tribsemen on ships and send them to America? If working for your whole life to feed your master in the worst possible living conditions, having no freedom and no chance of escape and being treated as the lowest of the low is not a sin, I would like to know what is.

Excuse the expletive, but you need to get your fucking definition of what is sin and what isnt straight.

I dont really get the next part of your argument. It dosent make much sense (or maybe its just me).
You seem to be saying that homosexuality will still be a sin, even though the majority of Christians accept it not to be.
Do you consider men equal to women? (I damn hope you do) Because by your logic you should consider them inferior, since early Christians did so.



Sins that do not always "force something on someone else":

Greed, Lust, Gambling, Swearing, Lying, Selfishness, Hatred, Pre-marital sex, Consensual incest...etc.


Stating that homosexuality is "consensual" does not make it "ok".


Hate to break it to you but Africans are not the only group to be enslaved. Probably every race has, at one time or another, been enslaved. (Jews were in Egypt) As stated before, it used to be that men would become a slave of another man to repay a debt. Forced slavery is another issue.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
User avatar
Lieutenant jay_a2j
 
Posts: 4293
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:22 am
Location: In the center of the R3VOJUTION!

Postby nagerous on Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:49 am

If something is consensual then I believe it is ok. I have very different morals to you. Also, all forms of slavery are forced. The only people said that if someone is working for another person in order to repay money were southerners pre-civil war that attempted to justify their slavery by describing the north as having 'wage slavery.' If someone is working for money i.e when repaying a debt and are not held against their will as you suggest then it is not slavery, it is being on a pay role. If they are held against their will to repay this debt then it is Forced slavery, which in fact is just generic slavery.
Image
User avatar
Captain nagerous
 
Posts: 7513
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:39 am

Postby Anarchist on Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:52 am

got tonkaed wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:
However, it seems only Jay is being labeled a homophobe. Isn't being called such just as hateful as the supposed hate he has for homosexuals? How dare any of the stone-throwers here call him hateful when you're going most of the hating. So he thinks it is a sin. If you trully believe the there is no God, then why do you care what he thinks? Honestly, why? It shouldn't matter to you so much.


I dont necesarily disagree with what you have said. However, as luns would put it, (and probably correctly again) jay and others who hold the view that homosexuality is a sin, and is therefore apart from what they concieve to be right morality, take some of the flack for other people who many have expeirenced throughout their life expeirences. For what its worth, i dont know how jay would act in the presents of a gay person. But i can comment a little bit about why such stances are possibly homophobic, and why believe that homosexuality is a sin should be seen as problematic.

We simply dont live in our own neat cookie cutter worlds. Chances are at somepoint those with anti-gay views are going to come into contact with people who are gay. Now its hard to believe that over a long enough period of time, that certain people would not act inappropriately and harass they people they disagreed with. Now this may be right within their own belief system, as if it is possible some groups will try to convert the sinner, but its becoming increasingly less ok in the general society. And as views evolve in society, those with views seen as retroactive (as i believe those who dont believe homosexuality is a sin, would see people that do as) then they must be prepared for some kind of backlash. something perhaps of the notion for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Is this type of mentality best for human interaction...no of course it isnt. One would hope that anyone (christian or not) could learn a bit from the notion of turning the other cheek. However both sides of the issue can at times take some fairly personally invested stances that are hurtful. Perhaps the bits of backlash jay and others get is simply teh general group trying to return to some bit of balance. and most likely this is what occurs in the general society at large. Anti-gay views arent popular right now, and those who have them should probably expect to find that others feel their views must be counteracted, and counteracted strongly. At least thats what i would assume is often going to be the case.
=D>
Anarchy-The Negation Of All Oppressive Structures
http://www.marxist.com
http://www.attackthesystem.com/anarchism2.html
(You have 110 armies left to deploy)
"Si pacem vis, para bellum" - if you want peace, prepare for war.
User avatar
Sergeant 1st Class Anarchist
 
Posts: 539
Joined: Sun Jan 14, 2007 3:25 am
Location: A little island in the Pacific

Postby jay_a2j on Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:54 am

nagerous wrote:If something is consensual then I believe it is ok. I have very different morals to you. Also, all forms of slavery are forced.



God sets the moral standard not me or you.


And I disagree with your last quoted sentence.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
User avatar
Lieutenant jay_a2j
 
Posts: 4293
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:22 am
Location: In the center of the R3VOJUTION!

Postby nagerous on Tue Jun 05, 2007 5:59 am

jay_a2j wrote:
nagerous wrote:If something is consensual then I believe it is ok. I have very different morals to you. Also, all forms of slavery are forced.



God sets the moral standard not me or you.




I choose my own morals and the way to live my own life. This does not make me an evil sinner. I despise murderers, rapists etc as much as anyone else. However, there is a distinct difference between the public and private spheres and what goes on in ones private life should remain private unless someone else's private sphere is being harmed i.e in the case of wife beating where it should enter the public sphere and be dealt with accordingly. In the case for homosexuality, concesual incest, even drugs taking ---- all of these things I would never personally involve myself in in a million years. However, individuals that do are personally responsible for their own actions and as long as as J.S Mill said "liberty does not become licence" then this should remain their own lifestyle choice.
Image
User avatar
Captain nagerous
 
Posts: 7513
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:39 am

Postby Iliad on Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:28 am

I nearly watched an American R Rated movie today. IT was the Merchant of Venice.
User avatar
Private 1st Class Iliad
 
Posts: 10394
Joined: Mon Mar 05, 2007 12:48 am

Postby Skittles! on Wed Jun 06, 2007 5:25 am

Iliad wrote:I nearly watched an American R Rated movie today. IT was the Merchant of Venice.

Boo, who hasn't seen an American R Rated movie? Team America is one, 40 year old virgin is probably another.

You Americans have way too many fucking R rated movies.
KraphtOne wrote:when you sign up a new account one of the check boxes should be "do you want to foe colton24 (it is highly recommended) "
User avatar
Private Skittles!
 
Posts: 14575
Joined: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:18 am

Postby Backglass on Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:53 am

jay_a2j wrote:I and others believe in ancient superstitions. There are many who no longer perform these rituals. This small detail will not pull me over to the "acceptance of homosexuality" group however as I am thoroughly deluded in my belief of the supernatural. So, spew all the names your brain can muster. It will have no effect on my magical, invisible gods laws. You are not at odds with me and my rituals & superstitions, you are at odds with my magical, invisible, imaginary sky-daddy.
Image
The Pro-TipĀ®, SkyDaddyĀ® and Image are registered trademarks of Backglass Heavy Industries.
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class Backglass
 
Posts: 2212
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:48 pm
Location: New York

Postby Bouncer on Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:03 am

the secret message in 'brokeback mountain' is actually
a plea for family values...........

"kin, mount a rock babe!"
--- Death or Bounce ---
User avatar
Lieutenant Bouncer
 
Posts: 79
Joined: Wed Sep 20, 2006 3:22 pm
Location: Cardiff - Wales

Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:47 am

got tonkaed wrote:
I dont necesarily disagree with what you have said. However, as luns would put it, (and probably correctly again) jay and others who hold the view that homosexuality is a sin, and is therefore apart from what they concieve to be right morality, take some of the flack for other people who many have expeirenced throughout their life expeirences. For what its worth, i dont know how jay would act in the presents of a gay person. But i can comment a little bit about why such stances are possibly homophobic, and why believe that homosexuality is a sin should be seen as problematic.

We simply dont live in our own neat cookie cutter worlds. Chances are at somepoint those with anti-gay views are going to come into contact with people who are gay. Now its hard to believe that over a long enough period of time, that certain people would not act inappropriately and harass they people they disagreed with. Now this may be right within their own belief system, as if it is possible some groups will try to convert the sinner, but its becoming increasingly less ok in the general society. And as views evolve in society, those with views seen as retroactive (as i believe those who dont believe homosexuality is a sin, would see people that do as) then they must be prepared for some kind of backlash. something perhaps of the notion for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction.

Is this type of mentality best for human interaction...no of course it isnt. One would hope that anyone (christian or not) could learn a bit from the notion of turning the other cheek. However both sides of the issue can at times take some fairly personally invested stances that are hurtful. Perhaps the bits of backlash jay and others get is simply teh general group trying to return to some bit of balance. and most likely this is what occurs in the general society at large. Anti-gay views arent popular right now, and those who have them should probably expect to find that others feel their views must be counteracted, and counteracted strongly. At least thats what i would assume is often going to be the case.



With all due respect, this is hogwash. Would you really like to know how I "act" around gays? I'll tell you. The same way I act around anybody. I don't start spewing anti-gay remarks, give them funny looks or quietly move away from them. So, I believe homosexuality is a sin. I also believe that pre-marital sex is a sin. Yet I do not go up to couple on the street who are in the process of an intimate kiss and say, "Hey, be careful. That might lead to something." At the end of the day, its none of my business if people sin or not. We all do! The notion that people who think homosexuality is a sin are a danger to society is completely incorrect. I also believe abortion is wrong, yet have never had the overwhelming desire to bomb an abortion clinic. In a nutshell, we are not all crazy loons as you make us out to be. :wink:
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
User avatar
Lieutenant jay_a2j
 
Posts: 4293
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:22 am
Location: In the center of the R3VOJUTION!

Postby vtmarik on Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:21 am

jay_a2j wrote:At the end of the day, its none of my business if people sin or not. We all do! The notion that people who think homosexuality is a sin are a danger to society is completely incorrect. I also believe abortion is wrong, yet have never had the overwhelming desire to bomb an abortion clinic. In a nutshell, we are not all crazy loons as you make us out to be. :wink:


Exactly, it's none of your business, it's none of my business, and it certainly isn't any of the government's business. Gay marriage is first and foremost a privacy issue, does the government have the right to disallow someone from marrying who they want? No.

And don't give me this slippery slope thing of "Well, then people will marry their dogs!" Marriage is a consensual activity, and dogs can't give their consent. Remember the whole "Do you Smith take Laura to be your" etc. et.c?
Initiate discovery! Fire the Machines! Throw the switch Igor! THROW THE F***ING SWITCH!
User avatar
Cadet vtmarik
 
Posts: 3863
Joined: Mon May 15, 2006 9:51 am
Location: Riding on the waves of fear and loathing.

Postby heavycola on Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:24 am

vtmarik wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:At the end of the day, its none of my business if people sin or not. We all do! The notion that people who think homosexuality is a sin are a danger to society is completely incorrect. I also believe abortion is wrong, yet have never had the overwhelming desire to bomb an abortion clinic. In a nutshell, we are not all crazy loons as you make us out to be. :wink:


Exactly, it's none of your business, it's none of my business, and it certainly isn't any of the government's business. Gay marriage is first and foremost a privacy issue, does the government have the right to disallow someone from marrying who they want? No.

And don't give me this slippery slope thing of "Well, then people will marry their dogs!" Marriage is a consensual activity, and dogs can't give their consent. Remember the whole "Do you Smith take Laura to be your" etc. et.c?


WOOF
WOOF
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class heavycola
 
Posts: 2925
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:22 am
Location: Maailmanvalloittajat

Postby 2dimes on Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:26 am

heavycola wrote:
vtmarik wrote:don't give me this slippery slope thing of "Well, then people will marry their dogs!" Marriage is a consensual activity, and dogs can't give their consent. Remember the whole "Do you Smith take Laura to be your" etc. et.c?


WOOF
WOOF
I'm with you Heavy they can bark twice for yes three times for no.
User avatar
Corporal 2dimes
 
Posts: 13085
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm
Location: Pepperoni Hug Spot.

Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:28 am

heavycola wrote:
WOOF
WOOF


vtmarik, I think heavy just proposed to you. :P

Slippery slope indeed.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
User avatar
Lieutenant jay_a2j
 
Posts: 4293
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:22 am
Location: In the center of the R3VOJUTION!

Postby nagerous on Wed Jun 06, 2007 11:42 am

Jay I found a video of you on the internet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2swEcsZTxPc

in all seriousness what do you think of this guy?
Image
User avatar
Captain nagerous
 
Posts: 7513
Joined: Sat Feb 03, 2007 7:39 am

Postby XenHu on Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:32 pm

nagerous wrote:Jay I found a video of you on the internet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2swEcsZTxPc

in all seriousness what do you think of this guy?


You're fat Jay.

EDIT:

And I pity Florida.

:lol:

-X
User avatar
Cook XenHu
 
Posts: 4307
Joined: Mon Nov 27, 2006 3:38 pm

Postby 2dimes on Wed Jun 06, 2007 12:35 pm

I might be opposed to non traditional marriage if I didn't know several church going christians on there third or more marriage.

Since this is so acceptable and I've heard (though this could be skewed or out right fabricated like statistics can be.) there is a high percentage divorce rate in today's christian church like 80%. Regardless of the numbers it's much too high because, those are supposed to be the people that take the whole thing so serious it has to stay traditional.

"Untill death do you part." No body died so how can they seperate and say the same lie again and again?

I don't think anyone has the right to tell anyone else who, what, how, when, why or where to marry. However with legislating it, I do think there is potential to force people into performing marriages on people they don't wish to and that is equally wrong.

If vtmarik has such a seething hatred towards Canadians that he can't stomach them being married. Then I feel that should be his right as a person that performs unity cerimonies to refuse them his services. I don't think Jay or whom ever else is making laws should have any right to force him to marry Canadians against his will.

Regarding marriage the individulals should be allowed to decide what is right or wrong, within the confines of consentual adult persons.

Wether or not it is in the long run should not play part in the debate because it's broken allready.

As far as sin and the bible go, Jesus sets the standard much higher,
(I believe it's for the reason, being something to strive for even if it's unattainable.)
when he stated "If you look at another woman with lust in your heart, you have commited adultry in your heart." So there you go, I've commited that sin. Can anyone here who's married honestly say they have not?
User avatar
Corporal 2dimes
 
Posts: 13085
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm
Location: Pepperoni Hug Spot.

Postby heavycola on Wed Jun 06, 2007 1:03 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
heavycola wrote:
WOOF
WOOF


vtmarik, I think heavy just proposed to you. :P

Slippery slope indeed.


I'm the reason they invented gay marriage. Too many broken hearts otherwise.
Image
User avatar
Corporal 1st Class heavycola
 
Posts: 2925
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 10:22 am
Location: Maailmanvalloittajat

Postby MeDeFe on Wed Jun 06, 2007 2:43 pm

nagerous wrote:Jay I found a video of you on the internet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2swEcsZTxPc

in all seriousness what do you think of this guy?

[It's] hazardous to your health to have an anus up your rectum.

oh, really, and how's that supposed to work?
User avatar
Major MeDeFe
 
Posts: 7831
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2006 2:48 am
Location: Follow the trail of holes in other people's arguments.

Postby 2dimes on Wed Jun 06, 2007 3:04 pm

We may need a whole forum for brother micah. At least a thread.
User avatar
Corporal 2dimes
 
Posts: 13085
Joined: Wed May 31, 2006 1:08 pm
Location: Pepperoni Hug Spot.

Postby jay_a2j on Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:49 pm

nagerous wrote:Jay I found a video of you on the internet: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2swEcsZTxPc

in all seriousness what do you think of this guy?



Nope, not me. I usually wear a white robe and sandals when I'm out trying to convert the heathen world. :wink:



What do I think of this guy? Seems to be a few grapes shy of a fruit salad. :P
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
User avatar
Lieutenant jay_a2j
 
Posts: 4293
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:22 am
Location: In the center of the R3VOJUTION!

PreviousNext

Return to Acceptable Content

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users