Football (real)

[betiko]

Ah, makes sense. Thanks. I knew it wasn't due to any talent Benitez has.

Well this is the first year benitez is their manager, they didn t wait for him to be back in the italian front scene... And of course Benitez is a great manager! He is one of the hardest workers, maybe he did shit for the Inter, but what he s been through with chelsea, still winning the europa league... That was outstanding!
He s been elected twice the uefa manager of the year and won 3 major european titles with 3 different clubs (1 champion s league and 2 europa leagues).
I really don t like the way his teams play, but you can t say he isn t a good manager.

[Trevor33]

Ah, makes sense. Thanks. I knew it wasn't due to any talent Benitez has.

I don't care what anyone says Benitez is a top coach who has achieved success in most clubs he has managed. Results speck for themselves.

[JoshyBoy]

I don't care what anyone says Benitez is a top coach who has achieved success in most clubs he has managed. Results speck for themselves.

Agreed.

[betiko]

Bah, the juve kicked roma s ass 3-0 this week end, pretty disapointing.
I still think the juve is on the very top of the european football and still can t understand how the hell they got kicked out of the champion s league. My personal favorite to win the europa league now, since the final will be played in Turin.

Bookies favorite as well, funny considering how bad Italian football is they have 3 of the top 5 favorites in the Europa league. Swansea @ 33/1 are nice odds, if they can get past Napoli they have a serious chance imo. With the second leg in Italy though I would be surprised. Basel @ 25/1 is another interesting one. Also Ajax @ 25/1 could do some damage.

This whole thing about the italian football bad is bs. The juve would kick any english team s ass this season. Arsenal is top of the english league and napoli didn t make it by the smallest margin you can imagine in a battle of 3.
Swansea beating napoli, how??
Europa league winner this season is definitely italian.

As a league that used to be considered the strongest in Europe being the 4th or 5th best is considered bad. Only 4 teams left in Europe, England have 6 (4 in the CL), Spain has 6 (3 in the CL) and Germany has 5 (4 in the CL).

Swansea are a good club and have one of the best managers in the PL, they do have injuries this season which hasn't helped but they have a chance against Napoli... plus historically English teams have performed well against Italian team.

Swansea is shite. Last year was their pinacle, they have as much chances to pass as olympiakos vs united. And i still think that olympiakos has better odds than swansea.
You are talking about how many teams each country has left... This doesn t mean anything. So after next round if spain loses 3 and italy remains at 4 will your conclusion be that italian football is stronger than spanish nowadays?

Yes, italian football isn t at its best but it s far from being at its worse. I think that was a couple of years or so ago, it s really coming back on the front scene. They have a few very good teams.
English football is the one declining. The league is more interesting than ever, not because they are all at their best, but because united for example is in full decline, and other teams are taking advantage of it. I don t think that on a european level they will do better than last year.
It s the absolute worse year for france except for the psg, really, i had never seen anything that embarassing in europe. Not that we re good normally, but this bad.....

[iAmCaffeine]

Betiko is right about the EPL. All the teams already have more losses than any team who's won the title in recent years.

I still disagree about Benitez. He won with Liverpool sure, but with a team that had been built before his arrival. He fucked Inter up. I guess he did an okay job at Chelsea, but with their roster you have to be especially bad not to.

[betiko]

Betiko is right about the EPL. All the teams already have more losses than any team who's won the title in recent years.

I still disagree about Benitez. He won with Liverpool sure, but with a team that had been built before his arrival. He fucked Inter up. I guess he did an okay job at Chelsea, but with their roster you have to be especially bad not to.

He won a liga + uefa cup the same year with Valencia, and he pretty much built that team (just before signing for liverpool).
I don t know who the hell is going to be able to steal a liga from the real and barça again.... Simeone s atletico?? There is an atletico barça this week end! That is going to be quite a game.

To tell the truth, taking the inter just after mourinho was suicide. The team had lots of old players and it was clearly a team finishing a cycle, with no real money to rebuild the whole thing. Being the scudetto and champion s league contender he could only be criticized.
Guardiola did a very dangerous thing taking over the bayern too... So far so good though, and that team still has a lot of future, he didn t need to change much things.

Anyways, i m happy that you say that if benitez won the champion s league with liverpool it was greatly thanks to houiller who had been building it for years.

[Trevor33]

Bah, the juve kicked roma s ass 3-0 this week end, pretty disapointing.
I still think the juve is on the very top of the european football and still can t understand how the hell they got kicked out of the champion s league. My personal favorite to win the europa league now, since the final will be played in Turin.

Bookies favorite as well, funny considering how bad Italian football is they have 3 of the top 5 favorites in the Europa league. Swansea @ 33/1 are nice odds, if they can get past Napoli they have a serious chance imo. With the second leg in Italy though I would be surprised. Basel @ 25/1 is another interesting one. Also Ajax @ 25/1 could do some damage.

This whole thing about the italian football bad is bs. The juve would kick any english team s ass this season. Arsenal is top of the english league and napoli didn t make it by the smallest margin you can imagine in a battle of 3.
Swansea beating napoli, how??
Europa league winner this season is definitely italian.

As a league that used to be considered the strongest in Europe being the 4th or 5th best is considered bad. Only 4 teams left in Europe, England have 6 (4 in the CL), Spain has 6 (3 in the CL) and Germany has 5 (4 in the CL).

Swansea are a good club and have one of the best managers in the PL, they do have injuries this season which hasn't helped but they have a chance against Napoli... plus historically English teams have performed well against Italian team.

Swansea is shite. Last year was their pinacle, they have as much chances to pass as olympiakos vs united. And i still think that olympiakos has better odds than swansea.
You are talking about how many teams each country has left... This doesn t mean anything. So after next round if spain loses 3 and italy remains at 4 will your conclusion be that italian football is stronger than spanish nowadays?

Yes, italian football isn t at its best but it s far from being at its worse. I think that was a couple of years or so ago, it s really coming back on the front scene. They have a few very good teams.
English football is the one declining. The league is more interesting than ever, not because they are all at their best, but because united for example is in full decline, and other teams are taking advantage of it. I don t think that on a european level they will do better than last year.
It s the absolute worse year for france except for the psg, really, i had never seen anything that embarassing in europe. Not that we re good normally, but this bad.....

I'd say the PL is stronger this year than last, UTD have only declined because they lost the greatest football manger in history and replaced him with a muppet, that and Van Persie being injured who was the difference last season in what was probably the worse UTD team to win the league.

City have a top manager now and have improved their squad from last season, Chelsea have a better manager and Arsenal have added better players. All 3 are better than last season which is shown by all 4 English sides reaching the last 16 in the CL, two winning their group with the other two being unlucky to have last year beaten finalists and winners in their group.

Took City and Chelsea a while to get used to new systems and the other teams around them like Everton and Newcastle have improved this year, as have Liverpoo.

There's more top players playing in England than in Italy, plus English teams will always have money with the tv deals they have. Agree Serie A was worse a couple of years ago but it hasn't improved than much yet.

BTW Swansea are better than you think.

[betiko]

Well i was probably wrong about city. Like i already said, it s a club that i ve always liked due to my hatred of united. Pellegrini is a great manager, and city started the league a bit like they played last year, so i just thought they were hopeless... Even with a good roster and a good manager they were doing very bad and were completely inconsistent. It seems like they were just adapting to his system and that they now have something running... But only time will tell.
United lost the best manager of all times, there, you said it yourself. So they are obviously not going to be as good. The scholes giggs butt beckham neville brothers era is now almost completely over.
City, arsenal, chelsea, everton, liverpool and newcastle have improved? Most probably. Is any of these close to the great man united in any season of the past decade? No. Close to the real, barça or bayern? I don t think so either.
Psg, juve and atletico could beat any of these teams. They are not impressive. Remember the early 2000s when england had 3/4 semifinalists in champions league, well the epl is definitely not dominating that way. This is what i think, let s see what the pitch will tell.
But yes, having like 6 teams that are close to the top is not as good as having 2 top teams like spain has. The english premier league IS more interesting though because things are close.

[nagerous]

The Swans beat Valencia 3-0 and Man U 2-1 this season, I wouldn't write them off.

[iAmCaffeine]

@trevor - I'm not going to quote because a chain of quotes is annoying.

Moyes is a pretty good manager really. You can't click your fingers and expect him to be a title contender in his first season, especially when the squad's not as strong as it has been in recent years. They won last year because of experience and Ferguson, not Van Persie. Remember when Ferguson almost got Man Utd relegated? But the board stuck with him and, as you say, he is the greatest manager ever. Clubs demand success far too quickly these days and managers aren't given a chance. Given what Ferguson told the board before he left, I hope they listen and give Moyes the time he has earned.

I do think he should be playing Kagawa though, and Smalling is atrocious.

You know which team I'd like to talk about? Sunderland! I'm not a fan of them or anything, I just really feel for Gus Poyet. He is a good manager and his tactics are clearly working, but his team are shit! In one of their recent games which they lost 1-0, they had 65% possession, loads more shots etc etc but still lost. It's a shame really. The whole team are horrendous, but the defence especially; giving goals away with the most retarded back-passes you've ever seen. They need to gain some confidence.

[betiko]

Gustavo poyet from the real zaragoza is sunderland s coach? I think he played in england a bit towards the end of his career, was it chelsea or something?
I just know that i don t like sunderland and that the more they lose and feel like it s unfair the happier i am. Newcastle rules the north, sorry about their little ass. And di canio seriously?? What went through their mind?? They got what they deserved.

[iAmCaffeine]

Di Canio is a terrible manager, although extremely passionate, and a legendary player. I can't stand Newcastle to be honest, never liked them and never will. I don't care about Sunderland, it's just sad for Poyet. I'd like to see him at a club where the players are actually decent.

[betiko]

Di Canio is a terrible manager, although extremely passionate, and a legendary player. I can't stand Newcastle to be honest, never liked them and never will. I don't care about Sunderland, it's just sad for Poyet. I'd like to see him at a club where the players are actually decent.

Di canio is a racist f*ck. A violent f*ck. A cancer for football. May he never come close to a pitch ever again. So where did poyet play in england? Was it chelsea or not? Can t remember. (By the way, that s my grandma s last name so he must have french origins... Just thought of it as i m used to hear it with a spanish pronouciation, very diferent from the original french one.. Funny how I realize it after so many years).

[iAmCaffeine]

I'm not sure either, before my time mate.

[betiko]

I'm not sure either, before my time mate.

Damn, how young are you? You made me wiki him. 7 seasons with zaragoza, 4 with chelsea 3 with tottenham.

I d say i ve followed football for 10-15 more seasons than you. Chang probably did for like 25 more than me
My god, that was really wierd when he said he watched the 66 world cup

[iAmCaffeine]

I'm not sure either, before my time mate.

Damn, how young are you? You made me wiki him. 7 seasons with zaragoza, 4 with chelsea 3 with tottenham.

I d say i ve followed football for 10-15 more seasons than you. Chang probably did for like 25 more than me
My god, that was really wierd when he said he watched the 66 world cup

I'm 20! But I don't remember much from my early days..

Oh, man must've missed that haha.

[nietzsche]

And Moyes' Man Utd loses again.

And I heard the commentator says there are rumours of 100M E investment this winter. It's a Mexico based commentator but I really don't understand how people can have so little memory. Basically it's the same Man. UTD of last year but with Moyes instead of Ferguson. He kept talking of the players as if they were not good.

My point is, either sack Moyes or leave him but don't sell cheap and overpay for players in good moment. The same Valencia was playing very good some months ago, Rooney is still a crack but he wants to play as a striker, get a couple of good quality midfielders and that's it.

[Trevor33]

Well i was probably wrong about city. Like i already said, it s a club that i ve always liked due to my hatred of united. Pellegrini is a great manager, and city started the league a bit like they played last year, so i just thought they were hopeless... Even with a good roster and a good manager they were doing very bad and were completely inconsistent. It seems like they were just adapting to his system and that they now have something running... But only time will tell.
United lost the best manager of all times, there, you said it yourself. So they are obviously not going to be as good. The scholes giggs butt beckham neville brothers era is now almost completely over.
City, arsenal, chelsea, everton, liverpool and newcastle have improved? Most probably. Is any of these close to the great man united in any season of the past decade? No. Close to the real, barça or bayern? I don t think so either.
Psg, juve and atletico could beat any of these teams. They are not impressive. Remember the early 2000s when england had 3/4 semifinalists in champions league, well the epl is definitely not dominating that way. This is what i think, let s see what the pitch will tell.
But yes, having like 6 teams that are close to the top is not as good as having 2 top teams like spain has. The english premier league IS more interesting though because things are close.

I think it was 2008 that 3 PL teams where in the semis, that was the year UTD beat Chelsea anyway. Utd (who are shite this season) and Chelsea (who hasn't played that well in the CL this season) showed how good German football is after the top 2 - not very. And we all saw the forth best Spanish team in UTD's group :O I know they had a lucky season to finish forth but Jesus, Swansea could beat them.

I don't question that the top 3 teams in Europe are not English but you did it yourself when you named your top 20 in Europe they have more sides in the top 20 that any other league, therefore they have the strongest league. that's the reason why Barce and Bayern win their league without hardly dropping a point, the rest are pure crap. And especially in Spain will continue to be crap because of how their TV money is divided. That in turn helps them in the CL, being able to rest players in the league... especially Bayern as Barce are going to have a tough fight this season. Can you believe that Atletico are still 11/2 to win the league? A couple of weeks ago they were 15/2 :O

I don't doubt that PGS, Juve and Atletico COULD beat Chelsea, Arsenal and City but the 3 English sides could also beat Barce, Bayern and Real. TBH I think City will get fucked by the ref in a close tie and lose but with a fair ref they have a serious chance of beating them. Arsenal will cause Bayern problems but I'd be very surprised if they can beat them over two legs.

Regarding UTD - They won the league last year because they had the best manager and Van Persie was fit all season. It's basically the same team this year as last but with a crappy manager and an injured Van Persie. Wenger said himself along with Henry he as the best he had worked with, people underestimate Van Persie, when fit he's in the top 3 best strikers in the PL with a big gap in class to the rest. Moyes was an LOL appointment, he hasn't won a thing and Everton are having their best season ever and playing the best football they've ever played now that he's left. Plus they didn't give him any money, the money that he did get he wasted on a useless lanky fur-ball that can't get on the bench in a now mid table side. To make it worse they could have bought him a month earlier for a lot cheaper.

Seriously don't get me started on Moyes. 4 home defeats in a couple of months... UTD don't get beat 4 times at home over two years.

[Trevor33]

And Moyes' Man Utd loses again.

And I heard the commentator says there are rumours of 100M E investment this winter. It's a Mexico based commentator but I really don't understand how people can have so little memory. Basically it's the same Man. UTD of last year but with Moyes instead of Ferguson. He kept talking of the players as if they were not good.

My point is, either sack Moyes or leave him but don't sell cheap and overpay for players in good moment. The same Valencia was playing very good some months ago, Rooney is still a crack but he wants to play as a striker, get a couple of good quality midfielders and that's it.

They need a right back, center back, 3 midfielders and a fit Van Perise to challenge for the league in 2015. Forget about buying anyone in Jan, the only player worth buying is Falcao but he'll never leave Monaco. The rest have all played in the CL.

Have a look at the team sheet he has put out int he past 20 games, he has no idea who he wants to play and how he wants them to play... not a clue. They're playing slow, boring predictable football.

That's not UTD.

While I'm in rant mood - Smalling in a waste of Manchester polluted air, Evens is just average, Cleverly is so carp he wouldn't get into the Millwall team. Danny Welbaca has improved I'll give him that but still is no where near good enough, Young is a camel and Carrick wouldn't pass the ball forward standing in a mine field with a waterfall in front of him.

[JoshyBoy]

Have a look at the team sheet he has put out int he past 20 games, he has no idea who he wants to play and how he wants them to play... not a clue. They're playing slow, boring predictable football.

That's not UTD.

While I'm in rant mood - Smalling in a waste of Manchester polluted air, Evens is just average, Cleverly is so carp he wouldn't get into the Millwall team. Danny Welbaca has improved I'll give him that but still is no where near good enough, Young is a camel and Carrick wouldn't pass the ball forward standing in a mine field with a waterfall in front of him.

This.

[nietzsche]

Have a look at the team sheet he has put out int he past 20 games, he has no idea who he wants to play and how he wants them to play... not a clue. They're playing slow, boring predictable football.

That's not UTD.

While I'm in rant mood - Smalling in a waste of Manchester polluted air, Evens is just average, Cleverly is so carp he wouldn't get into the Millwall team. Danny Welbaca has improved I'll give him that but still is no where near good enough, Young is a camel and Carrick wouldn't pass the ball forward standing in a mine field with a waterfall in front of him.

This.

Ok but all these players did better with Ferguson. If what you are saying is correct, then Ferguson made all these trades and left so that the bomb exploted on someone else?

I must admit that except Van Persie, I didn't like the last 3 years of trades for Man UTD.

[betiko]

Well i was probably wrong about city. Like i already said, it s a club that i ve always liked due to my hatred of united. Pellegrini is a great manager, and city started the league a bit like they played last year, so i just thought they were hopeless... Even with a good roster and a good manager they were doing very bad and were completely inconsistent. It seems like they were just adapting to his system and that they now have something running... But only time will tell.
United lost the best manager of all times, there, you said it yourself. So they are obviously not going to be as good. The scholes giggs butt beckham neville brothers era is now almost completely over.
City, arsenal, chelsea, everton, liverpool and newcastle have improved? Most probably. Is any of these close to the great man united in any season of the past decade? No. Close to the real, barça or bayern? I don t think so either.
Psg, juve and atletico could beat any of these teams. They are not impressive. Remember the early 2000s when england had 3/4 semifinalists in champions league, well the epl is definitely not dominating that way. This is what i think, let s see what the pitch will tell.
But yes, having like 6 teams that are close to the top is not as good as having 2 top teams like spain has. The english premier league IS more interesting though because things are close.

I think it was 2008 that 3 PL teams where in the semis, that was the year UTD beat Chelsea anyway. Utd (who are shite this season) and Chelsea (who hasn't played that well in the CL this season) showed how good German football is after the top 2 - not very. And we all saw the forth best Spanish team in UTD's group :O I know they had a lucky season to finish forth but Jesus, Swansea could beat them.

I don't question that the top 3 teams in Europe are not English but you did it yourself when you named your top 20 in Europe they have more sides in the top 20 that any other league, therefore they have the strongest league. that's the reason why Barce and Bayern win their league without hardly dropping a point, the rest are pure crap. And especially in Spain will continue to be crap because of how their TV money is divided. That in turn helps them in the CL, being able to rest players in the league... especially Bayern as Barce are going to have a tough fight this season. Can you believe that Atletico are still 11/2 to win the league? A couple of weeks ago they were 15/2 :O

I don't doubt that PGS, Juve and Atletico COULD beat Chelsea, Arsenal and City but the 3 English sides could also beat Barce, Bayern and Real. TBH I think City will get fucked by the ref in a close tie and lose but with a fair ref they have a serious chance of beating them. Arsenal will cause Bayern problems but I'd be very surprised if they can beat them over two legs.

Regarding UTD - They won the league last year because they had the best manager and Van Persie was fit all season. It's basically the same team this year as last but with a crappy manager and an injured Van Persie. Wenger said himself along with Henry he as the best he had worked with, people underestimate Van Persie, when fit he's in the top 3 best strikers in the PL with a big gap in class to the rest. Moyes was an LOL appointment, he hasn't won a thing and Everton are having their best season ever and playing the best football they've ever played now that he's left. Plus they didn't give him any money, the money that he did get he wasted on a useless lanky fur-ball that can't get on the bench in a now mid table side. To make it worse they could have bought him a month earlier for a lot cheaper.

Seriously don't get me started on Moyes. 4 home defeats in a couple of months... UTD don't get beat 4 times at home over two years.

I think we are basically agreeing there mate, we just phrase it differently and we are arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Trevor33]

UTD were slightly less poor than the other top English teams last season, Chelsea were a mess, City didn't play for their manager and Arsenal lacked the quality and confidence they have now. That and no key injuries was the season they won the league because no way they were better player for player than City or Even Chelsea and possibly Arsenal. For me and many others Van Persie was the difference and it's showing this year.

[betiko]

UTD were slightly less poor than the other top English teams last season, Chelsea were a mess, City didn't play for their manager and Arsenal lacked the quality and confidence they have now. That and no key injuries was the season they won the league because no way they were better player for player than City or Even Chelsea and possibly Arsenal. For me and many others Van Persie was the difference and it's showing this year.

I don t remember if shrek was on a low last season or if it was 2 seasons ago?

[Trevor33]

11/12 season he was pretty rubbish. Last season was alright. Man I'll never forget his goal against City in 2011, was staying in a small hotel on an island 3 days by boat from India. Lucky they had cable in their reception, I cheered so loud the staff gave me funny looks for the rest of my stay there. He is a funny player, can look one of the best in Europe one season then a pile of horse hung the next.