American Education

[john9blue]

*edit- fastposted

By like, 3 hours...

[SultanOfSurreal]

Right, because everything that we learn in highschool is relevant. you know, all that math that you will never use outside of school, that life skills class with the flour baby because that is the same as a real baby, that damn art class I have to take to graduate. Oh yeah, I'm going to use all that knowledge for the rest of my life.

I didn't say that it was irrelevant, I said that who their representative is is unimportant to most people. Just the decisions that the representatives collectively make are important.

oh man, of course you're in high school, it explains so much

remember kid, the more you hate fags the cooler you are. hate them enough and the popular kids might finally accept you (but probably not)

Well maybe you need to go back to eighth grade so that they can teach you to actually use punctuation, capitalization, and grammar.

i absolutely guarantee that i have a better grasp on language and usage than you do. this in addition to a better grasp on human decency. but at least you're honest enough not to dispute that second one

[thegreekdog]

p.s.-thank goodness i went to private schools and university my entire life... and thank goodness i have my kid on the same path...

Socialism at work. EDIT* - To explain, I find it fascinating that someone who has such disgust for Republicans and FoxNews, also has a healthy disgust for public schools and, as such, went to private schools his entire life and will send his child to private schools. Similarly, I found it fascinating that President Obama did not send his children to public schools despite the support of the public school teachers' union in the last election. Finally, I find it fascinating that many people who go to private schools do not support vouchers to send underprivileged children to private schools.

Maybe we need to do a poll again - something like... "I go to or went to private school and I'm liberal leaning" and "I go to or went to public school and I'm conservative leaning" etc.

[PLAYER57832]

I find that the European approach to education is just different from the American approach up until College. In most European countries, you specialize much earlier. This happens in 2 ways, Kids who are going to "university" are tracked much earlier, but also there seems to be more specialization even within those groups.

I shocked my relatives when I declared that yes, I was absolutely going to college, but also quite enjoyed my agriculture classes. On the other hand, each grade where I was spent time exploring various trades (a week or so a year) and even went to work in different types of work. In the grade I was, we went o various types of agricultural operations.

College in the US is much more variable. Trade schools used to be sort of considered below a "regular" degree, but that is somewhat changing, particularly in certain fields that pay well and require a fairly high level of trade training. Also, many get college degrees, but find they do little for them in the long run (I am debatably one).

Beyond this, I see a difference in the general bent of the western US (California, in particular) and Eastern schools. Every professor we had from the East seemed to emphasis memorization of facts. Those from the west seemed much more interested in overall concepts and such. My experience in that regard might not be representative, but I thought I would "throw it out" to see if it goes along with what others have found.

[PLAYER57832]

p.s.-thank goodness i went to private schools and university my entire life... and thank goodness i have my kid on the same path...

Socialism at work.

Maybe we need to do a poll again - something like... "I go to or went to private school and I'm liberal leaning" and "I go to or went to public school and I'm conservative leaning" etc.

Not really, my 2 stepsons went to private (roman Catholic) schools up through 8th grade. I was definitely not impressed by their knowledge, even of church matters (and note I am not terribly pleased by my son's education). They did get excellent discipline and got a few things, like art that were superior to what my son is now learning.

To contrast, I went to fully public schools all my life. I get an excellent education. I went to school with more than a few kids from extremely wealthy families. We were good friends with the heads of 2 local private schools that I could have attended (on scholarship), but while I might have gotten a bit better "pure academic" education (debateable), I would not have gotten the diverse education (agriculture, ability to participate in various extra-curricular activities, etc. -- even driver education would have been left out). My grades were always lukewarm, but I aced the SATs. My brother, with both good grades and SAT scores, was accepted into the college that was supposed to be the hardest to get into in his field.

I think the area matters much more than whether the school is private or public. (I will note that the science in BOTH the private and the public schools are improving a great deal, beginning with this year)

[thegreekdog]

p.s.-thank goodness i went to private schools and university my entire life... and thank goodness i have my kid on the same path...

Socialism at work.

Maybe we need to do a poll again - something like... "I go to or went to private school and I'm liberal leaning" and "I go to or went to public school and I'm conservative leaning" etc.

Not really, my 2 stepsons went to private (roman Catholic) schools up through 8th grade. I was definitely not impressed by their knowledge, even of church matters (and note I am not terribly pleased by my son's education). They did get excellent discipline and got a few things, like art that were superior to what my son is now learning.

To contrast, I went to fully public schools all my life. I get an excellent education. I went to school with more than a few kids from extremely wealthy families. We were good friends with the heads of 2 local private schools that I could have attended (on scholarship), but while I might have gotten a bit better "pure academic" education (debateable), I would not have gotten the diverse education (agriculture, ability to participate in various extra-curricular activities, etc. -- even driver education would have been left out). My grades were always lukewarm, but I aced the SATs. My brother, with both good grades and SAT scores, was accepted into the college that was supposed to be the hardest to get into in his field.

I think the area matters much more than whether the school is private or public. (I will note that the science in BOTH the private and the public schools are improving a great deal, beginning with this year)

This is not my point. My point is that many people who are ostensibly pro public schools, did not go to public schools and will not or have not sent their children to public schools. For example, the President and apparently owenshooter. These people also tend to not favor private school vouchers, but continue to call for us to pour money into public schools.

I'm 100% in favor of public schools. I think they have and can do good things for children. But there needs to be some shared responsibility among teachers, students, and parents, instead of just throwing money into the system and paying some 55 year old dude $100K a year to sleep/teach for 9 months.

[PLAYER57832]

This is not my point. My point is that many people who are ostensibly pro public schools, did not go to public schools and will not or have not sent their children to public schools. For example, the President and apparently owenshooter. These people also tend to not favor private school vouchers, but continue to call for us to pour money into public schools.

Yes, my comment was directed at your original statement. The edit does change things.

I agree to a point about owenshooter, though is he really in favor of public schools?

I definitely think you have to take the fact that Obama is president into account when it comes to his kids. When Jimmy Carter sent his daughter to the public schools, it was very disruptive and security was not even quite as concerning then as now. The local schools said on more than one occasion that they are frankly glad the president did NOT sent his kids there. It just would have been too disruptive. The school the girls attend is much better equiped to deal with those issues, has kids of other politicians and such attending.

Similarly, if I were teaching in the public schools, I would either want to live in a different district or send my child to public school. It has nothing to do with the overall quality of the education, it has to do with the right decision for a child.

I'm 100% in favor of public schools. I think they have and can do good things for children. But there needs to be some shared responsibility among teachers, students, and parents, instead of just throwing money into the system and paying some 55 year old dude $100K a year to sleep/teach for 9 months.

$100,000 a year? Maybe in Philadelphia, but not most of PA... and PA has pretty high teacher pay compared to other states.

Anyway, the problem is that people have diverse wants and too many people today just don't know enough about the education kids need to really make intelligent decisions.

No child left behind was strictly based on increasing test scores because it is pretty easy to test kids and say "see .. we are doing better!". Meanwhile, a lot of research regarding how kids actually learn is disregarded. Younger kids particularly, are often kinetic learners, learn best by doing/moving, etc. not sitting at tables cutting and pasting and memorizing. Similarly, we know kids learn languages best before age 12, yet most schools only introduce languages in high school, possibly junior high school. Right when that window has just closed!

Then you get into science when you have a large group of people who know absolutely nothing and truly think science is just a bunch of "boring facts" that they "wish" their kids could learn, but....

Then you get security concerns. I have clearances up the whazoo, but it is literally easier for me to walk into a military installation than my son's school.

I am definitely for parent involvement and all that, but making it happen is another story.

[thegreekdog]

Yeah, we can't make parent involvement happen (unless we take away all the kids and make them wards of the state).

However, to continue spending boatloads of money on public schooling without any appreciable difference in education (and, in many cases, a depreciable negative difference in education) is not an acceptable solution.

And yes, the parent needs to do what is best for his or her child, I understand that. I tutor and work with a lot of public school kids here in Philadelphia. I've worked with their parents. If money were not an object, they'd send their kids to private school, even though all the kids I work with excel in public school and are headed to good colleges. I think if these kids can cut it in private school (and the ones I work with can), they should have that option. The alternative is to improve the public schools, which, admittedly, I'm not sure how to do.

[Titanic]

If so many americans dont know where is Korea,and dont even care abouth this,well its very embarasing,because in Korea fight 480000 US soldiers and 36000 KIA. This is big problem of americans,they realy dont care for nobody out of america.
In scool i learn of American history(all importan things-13 colony-revolution-american civil war) and many other things i read,and i know very good geography.America is one of youngest Countries,and history of America is very short(250-350 years),and its much easy to learn only history of america,instead of history of other countries.
Maybe im wrong,?

Though we are one of the youngest countries, American History (at least the way I learned it) began with the Conquistadores. Granted, it was lightly touched upon, but that makes the history of the America's from a European/European descent point of view about 600 years. Overall though, it dates back to around the time of Rome (in what we know of South America, where there are permanent structures at least). It is also fairly complex. Especially during the Westward expansion era.

Please forgive me if my spelling and grammar are off, been feeling sick the last few days and right now I have a head ache.

But in comparison to most other regions in the world (Africa, Europe, Asia) it is extremely short. There are books and buildings and artwork older then the USA throughout the world. Also, the history of the USA from 1492 up until around the mid to late 17th century is very uninteresting, and even then its fairly slow.

[thegreekdog]

If so many americans dont know where is Korea,and dont even care abouth this,well its very embarasing,because in Korea fight 480000 US soldiers and 36000 KIA. This is big problem of americans,they realy dont care for nobody out of america.
In scool i learn of American history(all importan things-13 colony-revolution-american civil war) and many other things i read,and i know very good geography.America is one of youngest Countries,and history of America is very short(250-350 years),and its much easy to learn only history of america,instead of history of other countries.
Maybe im wrong,?

I think you're wrong. In public high school I had four history classes (one in each of four years) - World History, European History, American History, and Advanced Placement American History. Did American history take precedent? Yeah, which tends to make sense (maybe because I'm American).

However, in college, I took two American History classes and approximately 20 other history classes that did not cover the US. That being said, I'm sure there are a vast majority of Americans who care little for history or current events of nations other than the US, so I can't really argue with your point.

[muy_thaiguy]

If so many americans dont know where is Korea,and dont even care abouth this,well its very embarasing,because in Korea fight 480000 US soldiers and 36000 KIA. This is big problem of americans,they realy dont care for nobody out of america.
In scool i learn of American history(all importan things-13 colony-revolution-american civil war) and many other things i read,and i know very good geography.America is one of youngest Countries,and history of America is very short(250-350 years),and its much easy to learn only history of america,instead of history of other countries.
Maybe im wrong,?

Though we are one of the youngest countries, American History (at least the way I learned it) began with the Conquistadores. Granted, it was lightly touched upon, but that makes the history of the America's from a European/European descent point of view about 600 years. Overall though, it dates back to around the time of Rome (in what we know of South America, where there are permanent structures at least). It is also fairly complex. Especially during the Westward expansion era.

Please forgive me if my spelling and grammar are off, been feeling sick the last few days and right now I have a head ache.

But in comparison to most other regions in the world (Africa, Europe, Asia) it is extremely short. There are books and buildings and artwork older then the USA throughout the world. Also, the history of the USA from 1492 up until around the mid to late 17th century is very uninteresting, and even then its fairly slow.

I'll have to reply when my meds wear off, as I am haing some trouble concentrating this morning.

[Qwert]

symmetry
LOL! This post is just proof of the poor quality of the American education system.

I guess you got confused between North Korea, which is our enemy now, and North Vietnam. Just to let you know- it wasn't called the Korea War- it was called the Vietnam War for a reason!

Can't believe how ignorant Americans are about other countries.

I meant Korea war-you dont heard of this War??

Though we are one of the youngest countries, American History (at least the way I learned it) began with the Conquistadores. Granted, it was lightly touched upon, but that makes the history of the America's from a European/European descent point of view about 600 years. Overall though, it dates back to around the time of Rome (in what we know of South America, where there are permanent structures at least). It is also fairly complex. Especially during the Westward expansion era.

Please forgive me if my spelling and grammar are off, been feeling sick the last few days and right now I have a head ache.

Im not american,and probably not understand what im mean.
I try to explane that i know maybe more of history then some Americans.I dont study any University,and i dont study english language(that why is not so good,but im still learn), but i know almost all Countries in world-many americans dont realy care for other countries,and will have trouble to give names of 10 countries.Ofcourse you probably have people who want to know more,what education sistem not give hem.
Now abouth american history-You say that this start from 600 years(1492),but conquistadores whas Spaniard-not british. Im start counting American(related to USA)history from declaration of independend(1776?)and this give you some 230 years.
Ofcourse if you want to be related on American continent history,then this is much longer history(native americans-indians),but probably you know better then me,because i can not tell what is in scool history book in America.

[muy_thaiguy]

symmetry
LOL! This post is just proof of the poor quality of the American education system.

I guess you got confused between North Korea, which is our enemy now, and North Vietnam. Just to let you know- it wasn't called the Korea War- it was called the Vietnam War for a reason!

Can't believe how ignorant Americans are about other countries.

I meant Korea war-you dont heard of this War??

Though we are one of the youngest countries, American History (at least the way I learned it) began with the Conquistadores. Granted, it was lightly touched upon, but that makes the history of the America's from a European/European descent point of view about 600 years. Overall though, it dates back to around the time of Rome (in what we know of South America, where there are permanent structures at least). It is also fairly complex. Especially during the Westward expansion era.

Please forgive me if my spelling and grammar are off, been feeling sick the last few days and right now I have a head ache.

Im not american,and probably not understand what im mean.
I try to explane that i know maybe more of history then some Americans.I dont study any University,and i dont study english language(that why is not so good,but im still learn), but i know almost all Countries in world-many americans dont realy care for other countries,and will have trouble to give names of 10 countries.Ofcourse you probably have people who want to know more,what education sistem not give hem.
Now abouth american history-You say that this start from 600 years(1492),but conquistadores whas Spaniard-not british. Im start counting American(related to USA)history from declaration of independend(1776?)and this give you some 230 years.
Ofcourse if you want to be related on American continent history,then this is much longer history(native americans-indians),but probably you know better then me,because i can not tell what is in scool history book in America.

I understand what you mean, but all I was saying is that the US's history as a country is complex. And, at least from where I began learning of history with it, it began with the Conquistadores. As that was when the first European colonies became permanent, which lead to other countries colonizing the Americas, including the British. Andnd it is not only world history that many Americans are ignorant in, but of their own nation's history as well.

[Burrito]

Right, because everything that we learn in highschool is relevant. you know, all that math that you will never use outside of school, that life skills class with the flour baby because that is the same as a real baby, that damn art class I have to take to graduate. Oh yeah, I'm going to use all that knowledge for the rest of my life.

I didn't say that it was irrelevant, I said that who their representative is is unimportant to most people. Just the decisions that the representatives collectively make are important.

oh man, of course you're in high school, it explains so much

remember kid, the more you hate fags the cooler you are. hate them enough and the popular kids might finally accept you (but probably not)

Well maybe you need to go back to eighth grade so that they can teach you to actually use punctuation, capitalization, and grammar.

i absolutely guarantee that i have a better grasp on language and usage than you do. this in addition to a better grasp on human decency. but at least you're honest enough not to dispute that second one

I see absolutely no evidence that you know the English language better than me, considering you apparent fear of capital letters. Is it really more decent to indirectly screw others over to help an individual or minority?

[Simon Viavant]

Yeah, I mean, not using caps on an internet forum? You must be a retard.

[Snorri1234]

Yeah, I mean, not using caps on an internet forum? You must be a retard.

I've decided to switch to ALL CAPS when I want to be taken seriously.

[SultanOfSurreal]

whinge whinge whinge

yes fascinating

[Burrito]

whinge whinge whinge

yes fascinating

Lets see, first you dismiss what I have to say. I will repeat it. On this forum, I have consistently had better grammar (e.g. use of capital letters) than you. You claimed to have "a better grasp on language and usage than you do", yet there is no evidence of that on this forum. Once I pointed that out, you immediately changed topics, merely insulting me instead of facing up to the truth.

Second- You avoided my question....

[john9blue]

Lets see, first you dismiss what I have to say.

Second- You avoided my question....

It's the exact same thing Snorri's doing in the DADT thread! Noticing a pattern here?

[SultanOfSurreal]

whinge whinge whinge

you know, you don't have to be past the age of majority to raise points worth dignifying with a response, but in your case waiting certainly couldn't hurt

[Burrito]

whinge whinge whinge

you know, you don't have to be past the age of majority to raise points worth dignifying with a response, but in your case waiting certainly couldn't hurt

Wow, what imagination, what wit! Another dodge past the point, straight into the insults. I have never seen such skill in my life!

[SultanOfSurreal]

whinge whinge whinge

shouldn't you be listening to nickelback and cutting yourself right now or something

really, you're just wasting everyone's time here

[john9blue]

He's conceding defeat, just ignore him...

[SultanOfSurreal]

He's conceding defeat, just ignore him...

i'm glad you finally found your intellectual equal, john. pity that it turns out he's like 15

[Skittles!]

Lets see, first you dismiss what I have to say.

Second- You avoided my question....

It's the exact same thing Snorri's doing in the DADT thread! Noticing a pattern here?

That they don't want to talk to people with backward beliefs? Yeah, that's the pattern.