Religions : do they preach peace and tolerance

[Napoleon Ier]

Some things are simply morally wrong

slavery, torture, human forced fights to death, religious persecution (nero et al.), corruption, abortion (so, yes, our society will be judged, but there are people denouncing evil always and evrywhere, abortion and corruption being overlapping cases between us and them)

all of these were practised by by the Romans

[Napoleon Ier]

And yeah, why wouldn't we want to be judged on our accomplishments and customs?

[BlackIrish]

None of the above are naturally terrorist religions, because these religions are no longer isolated and are aware of one another, they tend to be so.

None were ever isolated! XPianity was born in the centre of Jewish culture (Jewish priests crucified Jesus, even! (im not saying thats grounds for anti-Sionism...)), Islam, idem. mecca was a religiousmelting pot

Once there was only one religion. Now, there are many. There was once isolation, and now there isnt.

[Napoleon Ier]

Yet none of the "above religions" were ever isolated

[Napoleon Ier]

And what isthis "mother religion" you refer to?

[muy_thaiguy]

There is nothing wrong with disagreeing with the state, especially a corrupt opressive one. Mohammad was leader of a fascist state and again, was a goddamn pederast.

i think your blinding yourself to what you want to percieve. Rome at that time wasnt that oppressive to Jews, they allowed them a fair amount of self rule. Pilate according to legend only crucified Jesus because the Jews wanted it after all.

Up till the rebellion anyways, then they cracked down on them hard.

[got tonkaed]

napoleon im not sure ill be able to carry this discussion much farther forward with you...i feel there are some differences we have in opinion which have probably been flushed out to a pretty understandable extent on both sides.

Since i dont wish to have this reduced to bashing islam and performing apologetics for xianity, ill just summarize my final point that religions seemingly are not better or worse in and of themselves, rather that it depends on the actions of followers. Certainly throughout history you can take this to mean any number of things given the religions discussed here.

[mybike_yourface]

a good christian example would be the burning times.

[luns101]

Any religion is dangerous when it attains power in the community. Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world", but the majority of professing Christians seek to manipulate society according to their beliefs. Here in America we have the religious right, who give us wankers like Bush. Lucky us. I guess this is better than the inquisitions from the Catholics, but it's still a far cry from what is actually written in the scriptures.

Although I am a member of the right-wing conspiracy, I applaud most of what you just wrote there, b.k. All political power, whether it comes from the left or the right will be done away with and is temporary. Most of my Christian friends are libertarians, which drives me nuts on social issues. I have to go check in with Karl Rove now.

[b.k. barunt]

Your own post destroys itself. I am talking about the actual, intrisnic nature of religion, not its adaptation.

Exactly. Both Islam and Xianity are based off the same old testament so it is futile to say they are worlds apart.

Very convenient to your argument to forget the New Testament, which Christianity is actually based on - not the Old Testament, which is the basis for Judaism. God's kingdom in the OT was in the world - i.e. the Promised Land - hence the violence, but Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world, if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight". There is nothing in the New Testament to encourage violence - quite the opposite actually - "Love your enemies" . . .
You can compare the Quran to the OT, but to compare Islam to Christianity is absurd. Like Napoleon said, he's talking about the actual intrinsic nature of religion, not its adaptation (i say bastardization). When the soldiers asked Jesus what they should do, one of his admonishments was to "do violence to no man". Catholicism is not Christianity, but a mixture of Judaism and Paganism. Catholicism denies every basic tenet of Christianity that can be found in the Scriptures, and anyone who knows its history knows that it is the most evil organization ever to befoul this planet.

[luns101]

Catholicism denies every basic tenet of Christianity that can be found in the Scriptures, and anyone who knows its history knows that it is the most evil organization ever to befoul this planet.

Alright, I was with you for most of that last post but I can't let this one go.

I would never ever join the Catholic church but don't you think this is quite a stretch, bk? After all, the Church opposed Hitler during World War II. That is hardly the work of the most evil organization ever to befoul this planet.

[b.k. barunt]

Opposed Hitler? I must have missed something. First of all, Pope Pius sanctioned Mussolini's invasion of Ethiopia in the beginning stages of the war, and Hitler had an official concordat with the Vatican throughout the war. Also, after the war, the top Nazis who escaped into South America (like Josef Mengele) did so by way of what is now historically known as the "Vatican Ratlines". However, even if what you say is true, it certainly would not wipe out over a thousand years of murder, torture, etc.
You claim to be somewhat well versed in history - maybe you've heard of Will Durant? Durant said that "Pope Innocent III killed more Christians in his inquisitions in one year, than all ten of the Roman emperors who persecuted the early church." But hey, like John Wayne Gacy (the sodomizing killer clown) said "I've done a lot of bad things, but i've done some good things too."

[Napoleon Ier]

Yes....and the protestant denominations are all clean! No murders there at all!


UPON THIS ROCK* I SHALL BUILD MY CHURCH - GOD THE SON HIMSELF
*St Peter

[Frigidus]

Yes....and the protestant denominations are all clean! No murders there at all!


UPON THIS ROCK* I SHALL BUILD MY CHURCH - GOD THE SON HIMSELF
*St Peter

I don't think he was implying that. It's kind of odd to judge a religion by its kill count though. Heck, all but the most peaceful religions have a violent past. It's better to look at what direction religions are headed at the moment. Of course things look pretty bleak in that light too, but it's more accurate.

[Napoleon Ier]

Absolutly its simplistic to judge a religion on its "kill count",I just want the members of Luther's Magic Circus why they feel they can justify taking the whole Bible literallyand ignoring the above statement and "ACCEPIT PANEM IN MANUS SUAS, FREGIT, DEDITQUE DISCIPULIS SUIS DICENS "HIC EST CORPUS MEUM QUOD PRO VOBIS TRADETUR, HOC FACITE IM=N MEAM COMMERATIONEM"

[b.k. barunt]

Why join a religion with a history that belies its stated beliefs? Read the Bible for yourself - why do you have to join some corrupt organization?

[2dimes]

"ACCEPIT PANEM IN MANUS SUAS, FREGIT, DEDITQUE DISCIPULIS SUIS DICENS "HIC EST CORPUS MEUM QUOD PRO VOBIS TRADETUR, HOC FACITE IM=N MEAM COMMERATIONEM"

Can you keep that in the german forum please?

[Coleman]

A fresh look from me. (I didn't read any of the topic, just the title)

Well, I believe at their core all religions preach peace.

Tolerance? Not so much.

Every religion at some point has something that basically states, "All other religions are wrong, we're the only right religion." This can lead to a lot of hate, I mean look at the middle east.

My own belief system is that God is loving and has chosen as many paths that lead to him as possible. I believe that as long as you don't betray your birth/chosen religion you can go to your version/section of heaven. God is infinite, heaven is therefore likely infinite.

[Napoleon Ier]

Why believe the Bible...? Council of Nicea decided for you whats scripture.


Sola Scriptura doesn't work. Why join some organization? Because Christ founded it and declared "non praevalebunt". Also because I believe that the Holy Catholic Church is God's Church, reffered to in the Bible. And its declarations are as valid as the Word of God.


As forhistory, you cant judge a religion on its past. Lutherans murdered Catholics.Read English history 1558-1753. I dont use that as an argument against hem. Besides, most of the things Catholicism is accused of are made up by the Free Masons in league with the protestant heretics

Just NB, because ill probably make sme insulting remarks :
Im notinsulting you. Protestanism is stupid. You are obviously (based on your posts) not. Aquinas says the Faith doesn't come to us through intelligence, so at no point do I insult you.

[unriggable]

Yes....and the protestant denominations are all clean! No murders there at all!


UPON THIS ROCK* I SHALL BUILD MY CHURCH - GOD THE SON HIMSELF
*St Peter

I don't think he was implying that. It's kind of odd to judge a religion by its kill count though. Heck, all but the most peaceful religions have a violent past. It's better to look at what direction religions are headed at the moment. Of course things look pretty bleak in that light too, but it's more accurate.

Not even, Buddhism's been puched around by China. I think the only clean religion is scientology.

[Napoleon Ier]

I think the only clean religion is scientology.

Tom Cruise after a few pints on a Friday night...

[unriggable]

I think the only clean religion is scientology.

Tom Cruise after a few pints on a Friday night...

Eating a placenta =/= violence.

[b.k. barunt]

Why believe the Bible...? Council of Nicea decided for you whats scripture.


Sola Scriptura doesn't work. Why join some organization? Because Christ founded it and declared "non praevalebunt". Also because I believe that the Holy Catholic Church is God's Church, reffered to in the Bible. And its declarations are as valid as the Word of God.


As forhistory, you cant judge a religion on its past. Lutherans murdered Catholics.Read English history 1558-1753. I dont use that as an argument against hem. Besides, most of the things Catholicism is accused of are made up by the Free Masons in league with the protestant heretics

Just NB, because ill probably make sme insulting remarks :
Im notinsulting you. Protestanism is stupid. You are obviously (based on your posts) not. Aquinas says the Faith doesn't come to us through intelligence, so at no point do I insult you.

Can't judge a religion by its past? I can, and i don't see any organized "Chistian" denomination that i would join - based on their corrupt past histories. I see perfection in the scriptures and imperfection in power hungry organizations - especially the Roman Catholic church, whose history is so bloody and corrupt that only an idiot (or someone simply following what his parents told him to) would believe that God has anything whatsoever to do with it. Go figure.

[Napoleon Ier]

My parents are atheist and methodist. I converted. No point arguing down that road, ami.

The Church is the Community of saints reffered to in the Scriptures. Soit is obvious, its memers being human, that hey will sin. But as the Bride of Christ, the Church is the Sacred Institution that represents Christ on Earth, secundum scripturas.

[Snorri1234]

Well, I believe at their core all religions preach peace.

Tolerance? Not so much.

I agree. Peace is pretty much what everyone actually wants. Most people want a quiet and peacefull life and spend time with their families and have a job and get a nice spot in heaven if they follow their religion correctly.