Serena Williams

[Neoteny]

The event, no. The media, some. The thread, 100%.

It's just weird getting pushback every time I'm picking on the site's resident Goebbels. Just let me troll the nazis without having to wade through a sea of "um, sir, the discourse" from the lanyards.

Lol were you crying when you wrote that? Best go back to saxi's thread and tell us how tough you and antifa are. We all believe you btw, you're the ultimate internet tough guy.

Famously normal person. Just happens to hate all the black athletes and Jews.

Glad to see your favorite tactic of exporting people you don't like somewhere else is still in play.

[nietzsche]

lol y'all love getting mad at black people. Tennis dorks look back fondly chuffing about McEnroe's outbursts. And here we are.

Dude... McEnroe was constantly criticized until he retired and now everyone looks back fondly. Perhaps when Serena retires, people will look back fondly. She's the greatest tennis player in history (men or women) and the whole fiasco was beneath her. She does look like a spoiled brat. Yeah, we can look at it from a racism or sexism lens. Or we could look at it from a privileged athlete millionaire dressing down a non-privileged non-athlete non-millionaire. I think it was the latter.

while I agree about the mcEnroe part about tantrums...

I can't let you say that serena is the best player of all times... simply because she's barely had competition throughout her career... just shooting stars that came and went. Like when she started.. remember Martina Hingis... she was supposed to dominate tennis for a decade and she simply disapeared, her sister Venus was just good competition for a couple of years and a few comebacks but she never really dominated again... all these balkan and slav girls that have been comming and going............

On the other hand.... during the same period (and a shorter one because serena started late 90s, federer and nadal mid-late 2000s) you've had the two best tennismen in history. No one has ever dominated like these two did... then came along Djokovic as well... all three by far better tennis players than serena.

Also, there is much less merit for women and you can't possibly compare their titles with the men.... they need to win just in 2 sets for grand slams, while men in 3.... that's about twice the athletic effort needed when matchups are quite even for men.... the seasons are way more difficult.
I see no reason why women only play in 2 winning sets and men in 3 and they are asking for the same prizemoney... while they don't get as much public attention and revenues.

anyways: Margaret Smith Court won 24 grand slams, serena 23.... so even counting titles your statement makes 0 sense.

Federer 20, Nadal 17, Djokovic and Sampras 14.... don't be ridiculous telling me that serena williams is the best tennis player of all times men or women combined.... she is one of the greatest, but let's not be a feminist idiot pretending women achievement are like men achievement when they have to do half of the job against weaker competition please

yeah i meant to respond to that but i thought it was neoteny who had said it and kept looking for it and thought neoteny had deleted it..

not even close to the best tennis player of all time. That would go to Federer without any hesitation. Imagine how many more tittles Federer would have had if he hadn't coincided with Nadal or Djokovic.

I particularly prefer Djokovic, I think at his top he was insanely good. I dislike Federer because he's so serious, and Nadal is a whiny bitch and women like him too much. I think in the end it will be Federer, then Dojokovic because Nadal will waste the rest of his pro years whining about something, a knee, how good Federer is, or the heat or whatever.

Also there's an advantage Serena has over the other female tennis players, she's so much stronger.. that's of course not her fault, but in my eyes.. kind of ruins it..

but no, the best will go to Federer. It seems Djokovic will have a couple of professional years without Nadal and Federer in the circuit so he might have a shot at reaching the same number of tittles.. perhaps that's why Federer has decided to stay, to make the road difficult for both Nadal and Djokovic..

but no matter tittles, i think the pundit analysis will be that Federer is the best.

[nietzsche]

also, Djokovic does impersonations

[thegreekdog]

lol y'all love getting mad at black people. Tennis dorks look back fondly chuffing about McEnroe's outbursts. And here we are.

Dude... McEnroe was constantly criticized until he retired and now everyone looks back fondly. Perhaps when Serena retires, people will look back fondly. She's the greatest tennis player in history (men or women) and the whole fiasco was beneath her. She does look like a spoiled brat. Yeah, we can look at it from a racism or sexism lens. Or we could look at it from a privileged athlete millionaire dressing down a non-privileged non-athlete non-millionaire. I think it was the latter.

while I agree about the mcEnroe part about tantrums...

I can't let you say that serena is the best player of all times... simply because she's barely had competition throughout her career... just shooting stars that came and went. Like when she started.. remember Martina Hingis... she was supposed to dominate tennis for a decade and she simply disapeared, her sister Venus was just good competition for a couple of years and a few comebacks but she never really dominated again... all these balkan and slav girls that have been comming and going............

On the other hand.... during the same period (and a shorter one because serena started late 90s, federer and nadal mid-late 2000s) you've had the two best tennismen in history. No one has ever dominated like these two did... then came along Djokovic as well... all three by far better tennis players than serena.

Also, there is much less merit for women and you can't possibly compare their titles with the men.... they need to win just in 2 sets for grand slams, while men in 3.... that's about twice the athletic effort needed when matchups are quite even for men.... the seasons are way more difficult.
I see no reason why women only play in 2 winning sets and men in 3 and they are asking for the same prizemoney... while they don't get as much public attention and revenues.

anyways: Margaret Smith Court won 24 grand slams, serena 23.... so even counting titles your statement makes 0 sense.

Federer 20, Nadal 17, Djokovic and Sampras 14.... don't be ridiculous telling me that serena williams is the best tennis player of all times men or women combined.... she is one of the greatest, but let's not be a feminist idiot pretending women achievement are like men achievement when they have to do half of the job against weaker competition please

yeah i meant to respond to that but i thought it was neoteny who had said it and kept looking for it and thought neoteny had deleted it..

not even close to the best tennis player of all time. That would go to Federer without any hesitation. Imagine how many more tittles Federer would have had if he hadn't coincided with Nadal or Djokovic.

I particularly prefer Djokovic, I think at his top he was insanely good. I dislike Federer because he's so serious, and Nadal is a whiny bitch and women like him too much. I think in the end it will be Federer, then Dojokovic because Nadal will waste the rest of his pro years whining about something, a knee, how good Federer is, or the heat or whatever.

Also there's an advantage Serena has over the other female tennis players, she's so much stronger.. that's of course not her fault, but in my eyes.. kind of ruins it..

but no, the best will go to Federer. It seems Djokovic will have a couple of professional years without Nadal and Federer in the circuit so he might have a shot at reaching the same number of tittles.. perhaps that's why Federer has decided to stay, to make the road difficult for both Nadal and Djokovic..

but no matter tittles, i think the pundit analysis will be that Federer is the best.

The level of competition may matter to some extent, but we it's impossible to measure. Sure, Federer could have won more titles if he didn't have significant competition. Alternatively I could say Federer was not good enough to beat the competition he had (i.e. Djokovic and Nadal and Krygios (someday!) are actually not that good but Federer is also not that good). The only objective measurement is titles and performance. You can't rank men and women tennis players against each other based on any objective measurement (to my knowledge).

I also think physical dominance should not be something that handicaps sports dominance. Muhammad Ali was as big as his opponents, but faster. Does that mean we should take away from his greatness?

[Neoteny]

Even as a sports fan, I can't think of a more tedious discussion to have than "who is the best ever." Doubly so for a cross-gender sport and triply so for fucking tennis.

So, no, it wasn't me.

[betiko]

you just can't argue with the fact that female tennis doesn't have steady competition..... even serena williams has had big ups and downs.... i mean kudos for being a mother and not retiring, that is a huge achievement. Just tell me who have been her nemesis during her career? there is no consistent nemesis... her sister? no.
Just no one has been able to be consistent in female tennis for 5 years, not even serena who has had like 3 or 4 comebacks in her career...

Nadal, Federer and Djokovic have had some bad injuries and rough patches too... they have been winning almost all grand slams of the last 15 years or so, at least 80% of them.... with great other tennis players around them that will not be remembered because they started tennis on the wrong timing.

If you are a woman and you're good; you can aim at winning ANY grand slam throughout the entire serena era. She is not as frightening as the 3 mentioned in male tennis.
You know when the season starts that the australian open should be for djoko, rolland garros for nadal, tat federer can still win wimbledon and flushing meadows will depend on injuries and general form... probably the least difficult to win if you're not one of the three

[thegreekdog]

you just can't argue with the fact that female tennis doesn't have steady competition..... even serena williams has had big ups and downs.... i mean kudos for being a mother and not retiring, that is a huge achievement. Just tell me who have been her nemesis during her career? there is no consistent nemesis... her sister? no.
Just no one has been able to be consistent in female tennis for 5 years, not even serena who has had like 3 or 4 comebacks in her career...

Nadal, Federer and Djokovic have had some bad injuries and rough patches too... they have been winning almost all grand slams of the last 15 years or so, at least 80% of them.... with great other tennis players around them that will not be remembered because they started tennis on the wrong timing.

If you are a woman and you're good; you can aim at winning ANY grand slam throughout the entire serena era. She is not as frightening as the 3 mentioned in male tennis.
You know when the season starts that the australian open should be for djoko, rolland garros for nadal, tat federer can still win wimbledon and flushing meadows will depend on injuries and general form... probably the least difficult to win if you're not one of the three

Again, it's impossible to measure other than by titles. You can make lots of subjective arguments, which you've done, but there is only one objective measurement.

Also - Neo is right on this one especially when you bring subjectivity into it.

[Neoteny]

Anyone who feels the need to compare Federer or whoever to Williams is the guy who always brings up Kobe in the Jordan/James discussion.

[thegreekdog]

Anyone who feels the need to compare Federer or whoever to Williams is the guy who always brings up Kobe in the Jordan/James discussion.

Lebron James is better than both. It's not even close. Also, to further certify myself - I watched all three of those guys play.

[Neoteny]

I will not be sucked into this discussion, but I will go on record agreeing with a caveat: Jordan played against chumps in an era where defense was barely considered. Maybe he could have dominated today too, but we'll never know, and the discussion is not worth more than a paragraph.

[thegreekdog]

I will not be sucked into this discussion, but I will go on record agreeing with a caveat: Jordan played against chumps in an era where defense was barely considered. Maybe he could have dominated today too, but we'll never know, and the discussion is not worth more than a paragraph.

Shut up. I was making a point. Now you've ruined it.

[Neoteny]

I ruin everything I touch. It's actually kinda fun.

[riskllama]

I ruin everything I touch. It's actually kinda fun.

i was actually kicking around the idea of changing my username to rex everything, but you can have it if you want.

llama = helping

[GoranZ]

cartoons are funny...

Only for people that can handle them. Look at Symmetry and imagine him on cartoon. I bet he will complain that the cartoon is sexist and racist

[nietzsche]

Anyone who feels the need to compare Federer or whoever to Williams is the guy who always brings up Kobe in the Jordan/James discussion.

Lebron James is better than both. It's not even close. Also, to further certify myself - I watched all three of those guys play.

OMG you are no worth talking to. FOED.

[Dukasaur]

All the best female tennis players are Czech.

[Symmetry]

All the best female tennis players are Czech.

You might want a Czech, mate, but sadly you're more of a porn man.

[nietzsche]

oh but i would definitely support Serena choking the ram with one hand and squeezing his balls with the other while repeating "who's embarrassing now huh, why are you crying, why are your balls so small"

and she lost the US Open (the least classy of the grand slams) to a Canadian this year.