When will the party let the people choose their own future?

[muy_thaiguy]

Is this where I sign up for the free trip to Hawai'i?

Win a contest for the next pro bowl?

[mrswdk]

Nice 180, mrs...
you should stick to pokemon, hun

How did I make a 180 in the process of summing up other people's opinions?

[riskllama]

[mrswdk]

I was summarizing other people's opinions, not my own.

[muy_thaiguy]

Hawaii seceding would mean issues playing the Pro Bowl there (football is pretty big on the islands), their main university would not be able to be in any athletic conference, and tourism (a big player in their economy) would take a hit.

[mrswdk]

Right. And the removal of the South China Sea islands from Chinese administration would hurt all the fishermen, rig workers and island constructors/caretakers who currently make their livings in the South China Sea. As well as all the military personnel who find employment guarding the islands from encroachment.

Economic security for the win, everyone gets to keep their prizes ^0^

[riskllama]

are you not a denizen of troll forest?

[muy_thaiguy]

Right. And the removal of the South China Sea islands from Chinese administration would hurt all the fishermen, rig workers and island constructors/caretakers who currently make their livings in the South China Sea. As well as all the military personnel who find employment guarding the islands from encroachment.

Economic security for the win, everyone gets to keep their prizes ^0^

You mean the Chinese military personnel and dredge workers building and occupying artificial islands in areas claimed and owned by other countries? A bit of a difference there.

[riskllama]

hey muy thai, threads over. mrs declared herself the winner, ate the entire buffet and went to bed...

[muy_thaiguy]

hey muy thai, threads over. mrs declared herself the winner, ate the entire buffet and went to bed...

And let me guess, she didn't bring anything to the potluck either. Fucking freeloaders.

[riskllama]

that's how they do it in China, I guess...
*shrug*

[jimboston]

In summary, the denizens of Troll Forest are perfectly happy for America to occupy Hawai'i in violation of international law but not for China to occupy various parts of the South China Sea in violation of international law.

Who is claiming that America is occupying Hawaii?
Are there other countries opposed to Hawaii being part of the USA?
Is there even a majority of Hawaiian citizen's opposed to this?

[jimboston]

I was summarizing other people's opinions, not my own.

Who's opinions? A minority of nutjobs?

What's your opinion then?

[jimboston]

Hawaii seceding would mean issues playing the Pro Bowl there (football is pretty big on the islands), their main university would not be able to be in any athletic conference, and tourism (a big player in their economy) would take a hit.

It would be bad for them for a whole shitload of reasons...

Again, I support their right to make a bad decision.
I don't think it's a real concern.

[jimboston]

Right. And the removal of the South China Sea islands from Chinese administration would hurt all the fishermen, rig workers and island constructors/caretakers who currently make their livings in the South China Sea. As well as all the military personnel who find employment guarding the islands from encroachment.

Economic security for the win, everyone gets to keep their prizes ^0^

It only hurts the invading Chinese people... it helps the other countries whose territory China is encroaching.

[riskllama]

shh, you'll wake her...

[Lord Arioch]

Doers it exist any country in the world which isnt occypied if u go far enuff back? ...
I mean lets give them all back!

[mrswdk]

Right. And the removal of the South China Sea islands from Chinese administration would hurt all the fishermen, rig workers and island constructors/caretakers who currently make their livings in the South China Sea. As well as all the military personnel who find employment guarding the islands from encroachment.

Economic security for the win, everyone gets to keep their prizes ^0^

You mean the Chinese military personnel and dredge workers building and occupying artificial islands in areas claimed and owned by other countries? A bit of a difference there.

And you mean the universities, sports teams and tourist industry built on islands claimed by Hawai'i but annexed by the US. Same thing.

[mrswdk]

Right. And the removal of the South China Sea islands from Chinese administration would hurt all the fishermen, rig workers and island constructors/caretakers who currently make their livings in the South China Sea. As well as all the military personnel who find employment guarding the islands from encroachment.

Economic security for the win, everyone gets to keep their prizes ^0^

It only hurts the invading Chinese people... it helps the other countries whose territory China is encroaching.

Right. And liberating Hawai'i would help the Hawai'ians whose lands America has encroached in their entirety.

[mrswdk]

I was summarizing other people's opinions, not my own.

Who's opinions? A minority of nutjobs?

Quite I was summarizing the opinions of yourself, rishaed, Bernie, muythaiguy etc.

[mrswdk]

In summary, the denizens of Troll Forest are perfectly happy for America to occupy Hawai'i in violation of international law but not for China to occupy various parts of the South China Sea in violation of international law.

Who is claiming that America is occupying Hawaii?

Did you not read OP?

[rishaed]

In summary, the denizens of Troll Forest are perfectly happy for America to occupy Hawai'i in violation of international law but not for China to occupy various parts of the South China Sea in violation of international law.

If this is your summary of our opinions then.... LOL
Hawaii has been a State for over 50 years. If people (By which I mean the international community) truly had an issue of us allowing Hawaii to become a state they have had more than enough time to voice any complaints a/o take other actions. Also Hawaii was not, is not being claimed by any other nation as part of its territory. And the Japanese by attacking Hawaii recognized it as part of the U.S. (Which means that for the international community Hawaii= U.S. territory/state). At which point it is no longer an international issue if Hawaii seeks to seceed from the Union (which ain't happening by a long shot.) vs. if the CCP in an attempt to take control over a $5 Trillion/yr. shipping lane plus natural Resources, to which at least 5 other nations claim the waters are theirs, build artificial islands (which doesn't qualify according to the law of the sea.) in an attempt to legitimize their claim to the area. The two are seperate issues, but you can go beat your CCP drum for all i care.

[mrswdk]

What does the international community have to do with it? We're talking about what the people of Hawai'i want and wanted, not what some hippy in France or Brazil thinks about the situation.

Hawai'i seceding from the Union would obviously have international ramifications. It would greatly diminish America's capacity to project power around the Pacific and into Asia, which would have enormous implications for East and SE Asian politics given America's very active engagement/meddling in the region. The knock-on effects are at least as great as China establishing uncontested control over the South China Sea.

But as I said, the question here is not what far-flung countries think about this. The issue is why you guys are happy for the US to annex islands illegally but not for other countries to (allegedly) do the same.

[rishaed]

What does the international community have to do with it? We're talking about what the people of Hawai'i want and wanted, not what some hippy in France or Brazil thinks about the situation.

Hawai'i seceding from the Union would obviously have international ramifications. It would greatly diminish America's capacity to project power around the Pacific and into Asia, which would have enormous implications for East and SE Asian politics given America's very active engagement/meddling in the region. The knock-on effects are at least as great as China establishing uncontested control over the South China Sea.

But as I said, the question here is not what far-flung countries think about this. The issue is why you guys are happy for the US to annex islands illegally but not for other countries to (allegedly) do the same.

Actually: Hawaii seceding from the Union would not have a great impact there. (The partial loss yes, but technically The Midway Islands are the further reaching Base.) Also of note is that the Midway Islands are not part of Hawaii, therefor your argument is invalid. Also you don't think that U.S. Naval and Airforce do not have military bases with Asian Allies. For example there's one in Okinawa as well as quite a few in S. Korea. Thus all the U.S. government has to do would be to then move those military personel to the other bases. Hawaii has so much more to lose by attempting to leave the U.S. than they would want to risk. I'm not saying our government is perfect, however the instability and economic loss to the Hawaiian islands would be significant. As well as the fact that if Secession wasn't allowed in 1856, then I doubt the precedent has changed. Aka. Its not gonna happen.

[Bernie Sanders]

Right. And the removal of the South China Sea islands from Chinese administration would hurt all the fishermen, rig workers and island constructors/caretakers who currently make their livings in the South China Sea. As well as all the military personnel who find employment guarding the islands from encroachment.

Economic security for the win, everyone gets to keep their prizes ^0^