CHRISTIANS SHOULD CONFORM TO THE WORLD!

[jay_a2j]

The world's changing, therefore you should adapt. It'll gradually become more and more "outdated" and "intolerant", until it comes to a point where other people won't take it anymore and will feel like lynching you.

Been reading Revelation I see.

[Balsiefen]

Lets start a thread on why Leftists should not hold to their outdated, intolerant views. Why Leftists should adapt to the world today. Why they should "just do what everyone else is doing".

Fixed.

agreed, this shouldnt drag christianity into this, the cristians whare i live are accepting and generally nice people, their views are reasonable and not outdated, and they do not force theit views and opinions on other people or their children.

[heavycola]

Lets start a thread on why Christians should not hold to their outdated, intolerant views. Why Christians should adapt to the world today. Why they should "just do what everyone else is doing".

They can hold whatever views they want, just don't force them on me, that's all.

but, but, but thats what WE are saying with the showing of Brokeback Mountain in school. This will never do.... I'd like some reasonable, well thought out views on why we Christians should not force our beliefs on others, but the world can force theirs on us. Come on, there must be some takers!

You never answered what views brokeback Mountain 'forces' on anyone. When I was at school we had to read bits of Mein Kampf in history, doesn;t mean we were forced into being nazis. And the bible DOES have some pretty nasty and violent stuff in it - same argument.

If you're talking about posting the ten commandemnst in schools, courthouses etc, please answer:

- hasn't the old covenant been fulfilled? Every time someone brings up OT law that's your response, why are the 10 Cs different?
- What do the following: 'do not commit adultery', 'do not make idols', 'worship no other god but me', 'do not covet', 'keep the sabbath holy' have to do with education or a jury-based justice system?

Whether you like it or not, you share a country with all manner of heretics - muslims, hindus, atheists, buddhists etc - who have no use for these. Buddhists make idols, hindus don't keep sabbath, and so on. And i know you keep slamming 'tolerance' as some weak-kneed, spineless approach to one's fellow human beings in all their diverses cultures and beliefs, but you really need to try it, jay.

[Jenos Ridan]

This is THE question we should asnwer.


Why can't we ALL get along for once?




( Before saying anything against me...I am not religious and I wouldn't even if my life depended on it..)

To answer your single question in all honesty, No. No and No means NOOOOOOOO! Not as long as BOTH sides are entrenched. People like Backglass need to tune down the anti-religion hate and just shut up. I don't get his beef, it is almost as if he'd been violated by a priest as a kid. Wait, could that be it? Oh God, I hope for his sake not!

As for the not trusting bit, well you just proved an old point about non-religious folk doubting even themselves.

[Bertros Bertros]

The question really should be why should hardline fundamentalist christians conform? It's unfair to lump the nice old ladies who totter down to the parish church in the UK to sell old jumpers and homemade cakes in with the scripture quoting zealots.

The majority of Christians I know do conform in the sense meant here. Admittedly these are all in the UK where twice as many people watch trashy soap operas three times a week than go to church once a month so I guess I'm lucky. This outburst from the Brokeback thread is not tolerant...

Wake up! No one said that the movie is telling everyone to "be gay". This is YOU reading what you want into my posts. It IS promoting tolerance (as if it is a normal lifestyle and that there is NOTHING wrong with it). So then a child raised in the ways of God see's the movie then when told by his/her pastor that homosexuality is a sin, they will be like...."Wait, I was told that it is normal and that nothing is wrong with being homosexual." Thus sending mixed messages to the child. Legality DOES NOT demand tolerance. NO LAW is above GOD'S LAW! The problem is that you don't "get this" and that's ok. Just stop condemning those of us who do "get it".

Now I understand that you wholly believe that no law is above God's law (notice it is the same when said quietly...) and that is your choice, but it is not everybodys. Approximately a third of the worlds population claims to be christian. Of those only a fraction are fundamentalists...

Did you know Jay that here the UK the Church of England openly allow gay clergy? And even allow those clergy to marry? Look - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4558428.stm Ok not everyone is happy about it - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/3007568.stm but the guy is an openly gay and also a bishop none the less...

So to answer the question you posed, but with the condition that it only applies to fundamentalists is easy. Because to not "conform" as you call it is to preach hate and intolerance and for me at least, that is not acceptable, and indeed not very Christian...

[heavycola]

morning bertros

[Bertros Bertros]

Morning

[Jenos Ridan]

In order to conform to the ways of the world, one would have to abandon faith. Simple as that. But, simple does NOT mean easy. Does anyone here actually think for one second that you could force christians to conform without brain-washing them(which, the religion is said by atheists to do), trampling on their human rights(again, another accusation) and thus destroying the whole notion of being christian? Sure there are a few churches that are unusually accepting. These churches are considered false by many. So, the 'true' christians are going to be an impossible task sort of killing them outright(and yet another accusation).

[Bertros Bertros]

In order to conform to the ways of the world, one would have to abandon faith. Simple as that. But, simple does NOT mean easy. Does anyone here actually think for one second that you could force christians to conform without brain-washing them(which, the religion is said by atheists to do), trampling on their human rights(again, another accusation) and thus destroying the whole notion of being christian? Sure there are a few churches that are unusually accepting. These churches are considered false by many. So, the 'true' christians are going to be an impossible task sort of killing them outright(and yet another accusation).

Are you seriously saying you consider the Anglican Church to be false, or that members of the Church of England are not "true Christians"?

[Jenos Ridan]

In order to conform to the ways of the world, one would have to abandon faith. Simple as that. But, simple does NOT mean easy. Does anyone here actually think for one second that you could force christians to conform without brain-washing them(which, the religion is said by atheists to do), trampling on their human rights(again, another accusation) and thus destroying the whole notion of being christian? Sure there are a few churches that are unusually accepting. These churches are considered false by many. So, the 'true' christians are going to be an impossible task sort of killing them outright(and yet another accusation).

Are you seriously saying you consider the Anglican Church to be false, or that members of the Church of England are not "true Christians"?

If Catholics and Mormons aren't, then why not? As much as I could try to put it more delicately, I long ago reallized that being blunt is generally a better way. Haves immensely on hassle. It is obvious you disagree, fine. Then let it die here after you declare it (thus giving you the last words) so.

[Bertros Bertros]

Can I ask which Church you belong to, Jenos?

I don't per se disagree, but must admit that it was a leading question...

[Jenos Ridan]

Can I ask which Church you belong to, Jenos?

I don't per se disagree, but must admit that it was a leading question...

Sure, since you asked so civilly. I think we need more of this kind of talk.
I go to Life Center Church.

[Bertros Bertros]

So that is an evangelical church which has evolved from the missionary baptists? I was interested to see if your religion was under your own definition a false one, but as baptism arguably has its origins outside of the protestant reformation thats not the case. Hence it was a leading question...

To get back on topic a little I think the wide diversity of religious beliefs all stemming from the same origin, the teachings of a single man, is perhaps the most compelling reason for conformity. Whoever Jesus was there is little dispute that he believed in acceptance, tolerance and understanding. The religions which make exceptions to this in the name of Jesus are not honouring his original intent, whether or not the words of the Bible can be interpreted to loosely support their prejudice.

The idea that conforming is about letting the atheists have their way is misleading. Conforming, in this sense, is about being nice to each other. This is not something that is exclusive to any group regardless of their beliefs.

[Guilty_Biscuit]

Someone should probably have said by now that Christians have conformed to the world and continue to adapt depending on public opionion.

So why do Christians conform to the world when God clearly hasn't asked them to move with the times???

[The1exile]

So why do Christians conform to the world when God clearly hasn't asked them to move with the times???

Because you can believe in Christ and not follow the fundamentalist bullshit. of course some people will insist that makes you non xian.

Apologies for any bitterness in this post but I just had an RE exam today...

[Backglass]

So you don't want some guy coming up to you on the street telling you "Repent! Or you will go to hell!" Understood. You would prefer that they believe what they want to believe but not to "force" it on you. Fine.

Great! No public streets. No public schools. No public office buildings. No public courthouses. We agree!

People like Backglass need to tune down the anti-religion hate and just shut up.

Wow...guess I am living in your head! Aren't you late for kneeling and wailing 101?

And wheres the hate? I just think your silly for devoting your life to myths & legends, thats all. I dont't hate you young Jedi, it's called "debate". In fact you have good taste in music and I agree with many of your political opinions.

I don't get his beef, it is almost as if he'd been violated by a priest as a kid.

Nope. Just dont buy into the campfire stories, thats all.

BUT since you think such things are so comical, here's the priestly news from the last few weeks:

• Oregon priest sexually abused two boys - OR [5/17/07]
• Community shocked by allegations against priest - CA [5/16/07]
• Priest acused of molesting girl - UK [5/16/07]
• Priest pleads guilty to abuse - VT [4/30/2007]

And thats just the first page of Google News. But I am sure, these most recent events are just isolated circumstances.

[2dimes]

Golly, that third guy must be in a pile of trouble with the church, girls are off limits for priests presuming he's catholic.

Don't worry backglass and mustard, I have no intention of stopping my babbling.

I know I'm a mere shadow of the church folk but, "I just can't quit you."

[Huckleberryhound]

Wow, some people are so stuck on themselves.

My sentaments exactly.

[2dimes]

I've been stuck to a pair of undergarments.

[mr. incrediball]

Lets start a thread on why Christians should not hold to their outdated, intolerant views. Why Christians should adapt to the world today. Why they should "just do what everyone else is doing".

not all christians, jay, just the homophobic ones who blindly believe everything the bible says... btw jay have you noticed the number of gay vicars?

[Guiscard]

So the basic idea here is that the church should never have to adapt its views and doctrine to match the standards of the world around it...

In that case we'd still have slavery, would we not? That's a perfect example of the church conforming to outside moral standards...

200 years ago many within he church fought against slavery, but others still believed it was justified by their religion. Now I doubt anyone within the church would argue that is is immoral and wrong.

Now some within the church are working to be more accepting of homosexuality, just as others think it is immoral and wrong. Maybe in 100 years you'll be a bit more sensible.

Move with the times.

[vtmarik]

There's a fine line between not shoving your religious beliefs down people's throats and letting them do it to you. You can have the strength of your convictions and no one complains. That doesn't mean that you have to sit there and take it when someone starts infringing on your rights.

If someone asks you to leave because you're wearing a cross, but they don't do the same to someone wearing a crescent, star of david, pentacle, etc. That's discrimination. Don't just leave and then complain later, you sue that motherfucker. The ACLU will fight for you too.

The main reason whiny Christians stand around complaining that they're being oppressed is because they like to complain but are too lazy/stubborn to stand up for their rights and fight for them. You've been discriminated against? Don't write Pat Robertson, take them to court.

[jay_a2j]

btw jay have you noticed the number of gay vicars?

Hmm now that you mention it...I've been completely wrong! Gayness is a good thing! God IS tolerant of homosexuals! Thanks for pointing that out! The number of "gay vicars" proves its not sin!!

[Jenos Ridan]

So you don't want some guy coming up to you on the street telling you "Repent! Or you will go to hell!" Understood. You would prefer that they believe what they want to believe but not to "force" it on you. Fine.

Great! No public streets. No public schools. No public office buildings. No public courthouses. We agree!

People like Backglass need to tune down the anti-religion hate and just shut up.

Wow...guess I am living in your head! Aren't you late for kneeling and wailing 101?

And wheres the hate? I just think your silly for devoting your life to myths & legends, thats all. I dont't hate you young Jedi, it's called "debate". In fact you have good taste in music and I agree with many of your political opinions.

I don't get his beef, it is almost as if he'd been violated by a priest as a kid.

Nope. Just dont buy into the campfire stories, thats all.

BUT since you think such things are so comical, here's the priestly news from the last few weeks:

• Oregon priest sexually abused two boys - OR [5/17/07]
• Community shocked by allegations against priest - CA [5/16/07]
• Priest acused of molesting girl - UK [5/16/07]
• Priest pleads guilty to abuse - VT [4/30/2007]

And thats just the first page of Google News. But I am sure, these most recent events are just isolated circumstances.

I never said you hated me specifically, just religion (but not the followers thereof) in general. Yes, we do have some things in common, won't deny that. Yes, I was being funny about it, but it is a serious concern.

[Jenos Ridan]

So that is an evangelical church which has evolved from the missionary baptists? I was interested to see if your religion was under your own definition a false one, but as baptism arguably has its origins outside of the protestant reformation thats not the case. Hence it was a leading question...

To get back on topic a little I think the wide diversity of religious beliefs all stemming from the same origin, the teachings of a single man, is perhaps the most compelling reason for conformity. Whoever Jesus was there is little dispute that he believed in acceptance, tolerance and understanding. The religions which make exceptions to this in the name of Jesus are not honouring his original intent, whether or not the words of the Bible can be interpreted to loosely support their prejudice.

The idea that conforming is about letting the atheists have their way is misleading. Conforming, in this sense, is about being nice to each other. This is not something that is exclusive to any group regardless of their beliefs.

To the first question, yes. I don't gather you looked us up though? And I should clarify, I meant misguided but false is what came out. But there are false churches to go to. Scientology and the Catholics are tied for first place on the list of falsehood. I don't hate people for anything they are or choose to do, racism is contrary to the Word and so is any hate towards your neighbors, be they black, gay or of another creed. But sin is still sin. Can't hate a man just because he has a wall between him and God, cause I'd be building the same wall myself.