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Postby static_ice on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:13 pm

unriggable wrote:
static_ice wrote:
hecter wrote:But you CAN'T just switch back and forth like that. It's not the way it works. You are either gay straight or bi, and you can't just switch between gay and straight.


and how would you know? do you have experience :lol:


Well if he decided to be gay then you must have decided to be straight. Do you remember thinking 'I should be straight'?


wow, I gotta compliment you on that one =D>

but when I was a lil preteen, I just turned naturally straight because I ummm, well, started "noticing" girls more and got more interested in talking to them

but that kid couldn't talk to them, so he had 2 choices:

A) be a loser that cries himself to sleep and wakes up in the middle of the night to jack off

or B) turn gay and atleast be accepted by some people
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Postby hecter on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:14 pm

hecter wrote:
static_ice wrote:
hecter wrote:But you CAN'T just switch back and forth like that. It's not the way it works. You are either gay straight or bi, and you can't just switch between gay and straight.


and how would you know? do you have experience :lol:

For starters, I know a lot of gays and bi's. They can't just turn off who they are and become somebody else just because they said so. I also know that I can't just wake up one morning and say "I think I'll be gay today." Again, it's just not the way it works.
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Postby static_ice on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:16 pm

you can't repeat something you already said, because that didn't convince me. You have to make a new point or disprove my point.
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Postby hecter on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:18 pm

I've disproved your point multiple times.
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Postby static_ice on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:20 pm

well, this isn't a formal debate with a moderator; the mod is supposed to decide whose points win...in my opinion you haven't disproved my points (thats just IMO so don't argue with that)

but in all debates you can't repeat the same thing over and over again the only thing you can do is say something new or surrender :twisted:
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Postby hecter on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:25 pm

Being gay in not a choice. It is impossible for somebody to wake up in the morning and honestly say "I am going to be gay today." Nobody can do that. You are either gay bi or straight, and you can only discover what orientation you are. Discover, not decide. If somebody is switching between gay and straight, then they are either lying to themselves, or they're bisexual.
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Postby static_ice on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:30 pm

okay, my friend's friend made the decision of "I'm going to be straight now" not "I'm gonna be gay today"

because he now had the option of being straight open to him

anyone can lie to themselves, or they can discover something about themselves, way after puberty
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Postby hecter on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:32 pm

Your friend is lying to himself and that is very unhealthy. He should come to terms with who he is, and that will help everybody around him. But you cannot honestly decide these things. That is my point.
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Postby static_ice on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:38 pm

okay can't come up with a relevant argument there my friend has his hands around my neck right now begging me to go...
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Postby DIRESTRAITS on Sat Mar 10, 2007 5:49 pm

Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, homosexuality is not natural. Scientifically speaking, the purpose of life is to reproduce, which is impossible for homosexuals, therefore the trait never would have developed in the species. Furthermore, if it was an inherited genetic trait, it would have died long ago as those who possess it would have been unable to reproduce.
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Postby hecter on Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:10 pm

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, homosexuality is not natural. Scientifically speaking, the purpose of life is to reproduce, which is impossible for homosexuals, therefore the trait never would have developed in the species. Furthermore, if it was an inherited genetic trait, it would have died long ago as those who possess it would have been unable to reproduce.

Yes but every species has it's genetic abnormalities such as albinos. It also could be inherited by gay people pretending to be straight, or the gene could potentially lie dormant. But that's all science mumbo jumbo.
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Postby Jesse, Bad Boy on Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:28 pm

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, homosexuality is not natural.


There are a dozen ways you can approach this one and it really depends on your definition of 'natural'. At the most generalised definition, it means that which falls within human experience, making homosexual natural. At a slightly more precise definition of it occuring within nature, homosexuality also fills that definition. The definition which is often used erroneously is simply that it goes against the norm. In the same way, one could define any minority interest as unnatural - for example, if less than the majority liked ice-cream then eating ice-cream would be unnatural under this definition.

It occurs in nature apart from humans, as well. Homosexual behaviour has been noted in over 450 species, including penguins. A common counter-claim to this is that they are not exclusively homosexual or that they are simply going for same-sex mates due to lack of opposite-sex mates, which is not always true; the penguins mentioned in the link above would not leave their current same-sex mate even when female penguins were introduced.

In the debate as a whole, though, whether it is natural or not is moot (though it most certainly is by anything but the wooliest of definitions). Not everything that is natural is good (for example, otters are known to eat their young) and not everything that is unnatural is bad (how many people do you know who refuse to wear glasses when they need them because they don't occur in nature?).

Scientifically speaking, the purpose of life is to reproduce, which is impossible for homosexuals, therefore the trait never would have developed in the species. Furthermore, if it was an inherited genetic trait, it would have died long ago as those who possess it would have been unable to reproduce.


There are dozens of reasons why this argument falls flat on its face, so I'll say them all methodically. Firstly, it is questionable that the purpose of life is to reproduce. While as a population it is obviously necessary to our survival, it hardly follows that the only ambition every human has is to reproduce. On the contrary, I know many people (and I'm sure you do) who do not wish to reproduce and have other desires in their lives. Purpose tends to be self-defined and is not so simple as to sum up in one thing.

Also, there is the assertion that homosexuals cannot reproduce. Homosexuality is not linked to infertility in any way. If a gay man copulates with a woman, he is as likely to impregnate her as a heterosexual man is, all other things being equal. With modern techniques, such as surrogate mothering or IVF, it is possible for homosexuals to have children.

The hidden reasoning behind the above argument tends to be that by not reproducing, that couple is not contributing the society and humanity's survival. This is flawed reasoning on several counts; firstly, having more children is very questionable in helping humanity's survival, as overpopulation is a present and very important problem.

Secondly, it implies that the only way to benefit humanity is by having children. Not is this pseudologous if we take it as true, but is also nonsense because it simply isn't true; anyone heterosexual couple can pop out babies, and if those children are not looked after (as quite a few aren't) then the benefit to society is very questionable as well. Raising the child is just as, if not more, important than merely having the child. Homosexuals have, are, and will continue doing this for the foreseeable future.
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Postby unriggable on Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:29 pm

DIRESTRAITS wrote:Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, homosexuality is not natural. Scientifically speaking, the purpose of life is to reproduce, which is impossible for homosexuals, therefore the trait never would have developed in the species. Furthermore, if it was an inherited genetic trait, it would have died long ago as those who possess it would have been unable to reproduce.


Honestly, I believe it is a genetic disease that is recessive (you can carry it and not be gay). I know that the idea is pretty cruel, but it does what diseases want - to prevent from reproduction.

I know its not a decision because there are gay giraffes and dogs and what not and they dont switch to straight.

Sickle cell is an inheritable trait that kills people, adn that didnt die.
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Postby hecter on Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:37 pm

Jesse, Bad Boy wrote:A whole bunch of intelligent and rational arguements that were well researched, as they usually are.

=D> Bravo Jesse! That was awsome. Good job! :D
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Postby boogiesadda on Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:40 pm

DIRESTRAITS wrote:
Fish Breeder Boy wrote:DIRESTRAIGHTS is a very homophobic, so I would highly advise not talking to him about this subject because further socializing with him will just cause more anger.

I am not gay (although Dire thinks I am) I am a metrosexual, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being gay. If your gay more power to you.


The reason I hate you is you use the fact you are gay to draw attention to yourself, and won't stop hitting on guys. Not to mention the fact you like to spread AIDS rumors about me


oh my god grow up :roll: or are you still in high school?
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Postby Fish Breeder Boy on Sat Mar 10, 2007 6:56 pm

boogiesadda wrote:
DIRESTRAITS wrote:
Fish Breeder Boy wrote:DIRESTRAIGHTS is a very homophobic, so I would highly advise not talking to him about this subject because further socializing with him will just cause more anger.

I am not gay (although Dire thinks I am) I am a metrosexual, but I don't think there's anything wrong with being gay. If your gay more power to you.


The reason I hate you is you use the fact you are gay to draw attention to yourself, and won't stop hitting on guys. Not to mention the fact you like to spread AIDS rumors about me


oh my god grow up :roll: or are you still in high school?


Yeah we are. But Dire apparently is still three, and thinks that "homos" as he calls them, are going to hell. :roll: Not a homophobe my ass.

unriggable wrote:
DIRESTRAITS wrote:I'm not a homopobe


DIRESTRAITS wrote:God I hate bisexuals.


Explain.


I still haven't heard his explanation yet.
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Postby I GOT SERVED on Sat Mar 10, 2007 7:15 pm

I don't know why, but for some reason I feel to share my view point on this topic.

Firstly: I find it very hard to believe that one wakes up every morning and chooses their sexuality. I don't disrespect the people that do this every morning, but I think that they're just running from their problems instead of dealing with them.

Secondly: The whole process of finding out whether you're straight, gay, etc. can be long and arduous. I don't know this from experience, but I've talked to many people (numerous friends, family members, you name it, and I probably talked to them) who have made their decision. Once you make this decision, then there isn't too much leniency. It can be hard to make this decision at first, hence some flip-flopping. But you can't be flip-flopping for years on end.

Thirdly: If you totally disagree, then tear my opinion to shreds in a some-what respectable manner. Please. Don't just say "OMG, YOUR WRONG". Some meat to your response would be nice.

Thanks.
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Postby areon on Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:08 pm

unriggable wrote:Honestly, I believe it is a genetic disease that is recessive (you can carry it and not be gay). I know that the idea is pretty cruel, but it does what diseases want - to prevent from reproduction.

Sickle cell is an inheritable trait that kills people, adn that didnt die.


First, most microbes that require hosts don't want to cause extinction of species they require for survival. Second, sickle cell anemia is not a recessive trait. It is the negative possibility of a gene that helps people survive from malaria.

Do you think that this gay disease was genetically engineered to punish homosexuals or just occurred naturally?
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Postby hecter on Sat Mar 10, 2007 9:38 pm

Homosexuality is not a disease you stupid son of a bitch. It's just the people are. Accept that. Homosexuality is not going to cause the death of the human race, stupid people like you are.
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Postby flashleg8 on Sun Mar 11, 2007 12:30 am

Got to say I'm completely with Hecter and Jesse on this one.

Jesse, Bad Boy wrote:
Direstrates wrote:Scientifically speaking, the purpose of life is to reproduce, which is impossible for homosexuals, therefore the trait never would have developed in the species. Furthermore, if it was an inherited genetic trait, it would have died long ago as those who possess it would have been unable to reproduce.


There are dozens of reasons why this argument falls flat on its face, so I'll say them all methodically. Firstly, it is questionable that the purpose of life is to reproduce. While as a population it is obviously necessary to our survival, it hardly follows that the only ambition every human has is to reproduce...


I think the case has been argued conclusively enough but thing I'd add is in support of the above quoted post is there is precedents in other life forms for non-reproducing members of a species, I'm thinking worker or drone bees and ants etc. They do not participate in the production of offspring but contribute to the survival of the species. And as Jesse before me eloquently pointed out the term "natural" itself is not used properly at all.
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Re: Gay?

Postby CrazyAnglican on Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:29 am

hecter wrote:Does your whole family think you're gay?



Nope, sometimes I get rather depressed.
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Postby Roger Dodger on Sun Mar 11, 2007 2:59 am

oh. my!!!! :shock:
Last edited by Roger Dodger on Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Lord Canti on Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:09 am

unriggable wrote:
DIRESTRAITS wrote:Looking at it from a purely scientific standpoint, homosexuality is not natural. Scientifically speaking, the purpose of life is to reproduce, which is impossible for homosexuals, therefore the trait never would have developed in the species. Furthermore, if it was an inherited genetic trait, it would have died long ago as those who possess it would have been unable to reproduce.


Honestly, I believe it is a genetic disease that is recessive (you can carry it and not be gay). I know that the idea is pretty cruel, but it does what diseases want - to prevent from reproduction.

I know its not a decision because there are gay giraffes and dogs and what not and they dont switch to straight.

Sickle cell is an inheritable trait that kills people, and that didnt die.


I understand you're trying to paint a creative picture of your ideas about homosexuality.....but you said it yourself...the idea is pretty cruel.

I think it's funny how people think one's feelings of sexual attraction are predetermined.

They are learned, as most feelings are, through our life experiences. Depending on how one is raised as a child and who he interacts with is probably the strongest factor.
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Postby Skittles! on Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:11 am

Roger Dodger wrote:i for one would like to say, Yes, I AM A Lesbian. ! :shock: surprised.

i do not discriminate against " the breeders" lol. to each is own.

i have one son who is very straight and one that is not.

even though i am a lesbian, it did upset me when my son came out. being gay is very hard especially for men. i wanted more/ better for my son.

however the love i have for him is greater than the neg. feelings i have towards his sexual orientation.

i want to state for the record that i am very conservative. i detest " love makes a family" and organizations that push their ideology down peoples throats. i don't believe in gay marriage but, i do believe that if a person is in a long term relationship. ( i mean long like 10yrs til death. ) that an individuals partner should be entittled to your medical benefits, insurance, pension, property.

i have seen too many people lose everything even though they shared paying a mortgage, car payments and bought things together. some family members that don't really care about anything other than how much is everything worth.

my parents did not approve of my choice in life but, they did respect me.
and love me, being catholic & all.

i have to also say that all i ask of my son is to be careful and always be safe. the same thing i ask of my other some who is just as likely to pick up an STD by a woman as well.

my partner is handicapped. sometimes it is dificult but, like anyone else who cares about someone. i stick with it and, just keep on going.

if anyone has a problem with who i am that is fine.

one thing i dislike and will be honest about is bi-sexuals, gender reassignment and transvestites/transsexuals just creep me out.

political correctness has bunched up these people into the lesbian & gay community. there are other groups that they can belong to other than our groups.

i don't care what people think about me but, i have always been a decent, honest, honorable, patriotic , loving and giving person.
i would hope that when i die, that would count for something since i have not commited any moral sins. sodomy doesn't count for lesbians btw.

so, these are my 2 cents and, if anyone wants to see the family pictures.

pm me and i will send them your way.

RD aka Millie


You've just earnt my respect RD.
I hope things are all going fine =).
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Postby Lord Canti on Sun Mar 11, 2007 3:13 am

Roger Dodger wrote:i for one would like to say, Yes, I AM A Lesbian. ! :shock: surprised.

i do not discriminate against " the breeders" lol. to each is own.

i have one son who is very straight and one that is not.

even though i am a lesbian, it did upset me when my son came out. being gay is very hard especially for men. i wanted more/ better for my son.

however the love i have for him is greater than the neg. feelings i have towards his sexual orientation.

i want to state for the record that i am very conservative. i detest " love makes a family" and organizations that push their ideology down peoples throats. i don't believe in gay marriage but, i do believe that if a person is in a long term relationship. ( i mean long like 10yrs til death. ) that an individuals partner should be entittled to your medical benefits, insurance, pension, property.

i have seen too many people lose everything even though they shared paying a mortgage, car payments and bought things together. some family members that don't really care about anything other than how much is everything worth.

my parents did not approve of my choice in life but, they did respect me.
and love me, being catholic & all.

i have to also say that all i ask of my son is to be careful and always be safe. the same thing i ask of my other some who is just as likely to pick up an STD by a woman as well.

my partner is handicapped. sometimes it is dificult but, like anyone else who cares about someone. i stick with it and, just keep on going.

if anyone has a problem with who i am that is fine.

one thing i dislike and will be honest about is bi-sexuals, gender reassignment and transvestites/transsexuals just creep me out.

political correctness has bunched up these people into the lesbian & gay community. there are other groups that they can belong to other than our groups.

i don't care what people think about me but, i have always been a decent, honest, honorable, patriotic , loving and giving person.
i would hope that when i die, that would count for something since i have not commited any moral sins. sodomy doesn't count for lesbians btw.

so, these are my 2 cents and, if anyone wants to see the family pictures.

pm me and i will send them your way.

RD aka Millie


May God bless you
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