ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[PLAYER57832]

Second, what the hell right do they have trumping religious freedom protected by our constitution and mandating an organization who is fundamentally opposed to the practice to provide coverage for that which is considered moral sin?

Are you saying this organization is employing only those who believe as they do, practice as they do? That violates various existing anti-discrimination laws. If they hire anyone, then the chance is they will hire someone who does not practice as they do, who might want to make use of contraceptives.

Of course, that the insurance provides coverage does not require anyone in the religion to use that section of coverage.

Your argument is basically, "because they do not believe in that aspect of healthcare, the organization should not have to pay for treatment of it."

By that argument, vegetarian/vegan organizations should not have to pay for treatments for atherosclerosis (hardened/clogged arteries) or cholesterol, since vegetables do not promote those conditions and the eating of substances that do promote those problems are against the organization's principles. Using similar arguments, a holistic care facility shouldn't have to included any "modern medicine" or surgery, since holistic care uses alternative methods.

Our country is based on a separation of church and state. Requiring certain insurance coverages is not the same as forcing someone of a given religion to use those coverages.

Again, no one is preventing them from going to planned parenthood or spending $50 a month to get a circular container of pills for themselves. It would be like me forcing your company to provide coverage for religious meditation at a Catholic Monastery because meditation can releave stress and could promote overall health. You should really pay for that even though it costs extra. I want that in my plan and if you don't provide it for me you are discriminating against me.

Its a lot more than fifty dollars. You have to have an exam, often lab tests, then get the perscription. We don't even have planned parenthood and they pretty much only offer contraception for birth control, not hormone treatments. Besides, even fifty dollars is a LOT of money for some people. They ARE paying for insurance and covering medical costs is the reason.

And, some policies DO cover spa treatments like meditation. Just not the average run-of -the-mill policies. But you don't need a prescription or a doctor's visit to do meditation. You DO need all those to get hormones.

[Frigidus]

Second, what the hell right do they have trumping religious freedom protected by our constitution and mandating an organization who is fundamentally opposed to the practice to provide coverage for that which is considered moral sin?

Are you saying this organization is employing only those who believe as they do, practice as they do? That violates various existing anti-discrimination laws. If they hire anyone, then the chance is they will hire someone who does not practice as they do, who might want to make use of contraceptives.

Of course, that the insurance provides coverage does not require anyone in the religion to use that section of coverage.

Your argument is basically, "because they do not believe in that aspect of healthcare, the organization should not have to pay for treatment of it."

By that argument, vegetarian/vegan organizations should not have to pay for treatments for atherosclerosis (hardened/clogged arteries) or cholesterol, since vegetables do not promote those conditions and the eating of substances that do promote those problems are against the organization's principles. Using similar arguments, a holistic care facility shouldn't have to included any "modern medicine" or surgery, since holistic care uses alternative methods.

Our country is based on a separation of church and state. Requiring certain insurance coverages is not the same as forcing someone of a given religion to use those coverages.

Again, no one is preventing them from going to planned parenthood or spending $50 a month to get a circular container of pills for themselves. It would be like me forcing your company to provide coverage for religious meditation at a Catholic Monastery because meditation can releave stress and could promote overall health. You should really pay for that even though it costs extra. I want that in my plan and if you don't provide it for me you are discriminating against me.

Its a lot more than fifty dollars. You have to have an exam, often lab tests, then get the perscription. We don't even have planned parenthood and they pretty much only offer contraception for birth control, not hormone treatments. Besides, even fifty dollars is a LOT of money for some people. They ARE paying for insurance and covering medical costs is the reason.

And, some policies DO cover spa treatments like meditation. Just not the average run-of -the-mill policies. But you don't need a prescription or a doctor's visit to do meditation. You DO need all those to get hormones.

I feel that denying someone access to contraception for moral reasons is about as reasonable as denying someone access to blood transfusions for the same excuse. If you don't want to use contraception, that's great, don't. If you want to try to do everything in your power to prevent others with a less orthodox view of sex from obtaining contraception, that's a problem. If you have issues with providing someone with common, basic medical needs then you shouldn't be getting into anything involving the medical industry. It would be like joining the army and saying "my religion doesn't allow me to shoot at people over six feet tall". It might seem perfectly reasonable to you, but there are demands of the job you chose that go against this principle.

[Phatscotty]

I hate this stupid facebook "If you beleive nobody should go broke cuz you get sick..." crap. Why should anyone die at all? What about lung cancer for smokers who use 3 packs a day? the guy that ate 2 mcdonalds sausage mcmuffins every morning for 15 years>? Where is your head? Look where its already been tried like in hawaii and massachussetes

[Titanic]

I hate this stupid facebook "If you beleive nobody should go broke cuz you get sick..." crap. Why should anyone die at all? What about lung cancer for smokers who use 3 packs a day? the guy that ate 2 mcdonalds sausage mcmuffins every morning for 15 years>? Where is your head? Look where its already been tried like in hawaii and massachussetes

How about looking where its being used in Europe and every other industrialised nation in the world? You know, all the countries that kick your arse in health statistics.

[Mr_Adams]

The Efficiency of the Court System combined with the Compassion of the IRS

and the expediancy of the DMV.

[Frigidus]

The Efficiency of the Court System combined with the Compassion of the IRS

and the expediancy of the DMV.

This is a great description of what we currently have, yes.

[Phatscotty]

I hate this stupid facebook "If you beleive nobody should go broke cuz you get sick..." crap. Why should anyone die at all? What about lung cancer for smokers who use 3 packs a day? the guy that ate 2 mcdonalds sausage mcmuffins every morning for 15 years>? Where is your head? Look where its already been tried like in hawaii and massachussetes

How about looking where its being used in Europe and every other industrialised nation in the world? You know, all the countries that kick your arse in health statistics.

how about you worry about yourself and stay out of my life? ever cross your mind? Don't Tread on Me

[Frigidus]

I hate this stupid facebook "If you beleive nobody should go broke cuz you get sick..." crap. Why should anyone die at all? What about lung cancer for smokers who use 3 packs a day? the guy that ate 2 mcdonalds sausage mcmuffins every morning for 15 years>? Where is your head? Look where its already been tried like in hawaii and massachussetes

How about looking where its being used in Europe and every other industrialised nation in the world? You know, all the countries that kick your arse in health statistics.

how about you worry about yourself and stay out of my life? ever cross your mind? Don't Tread on Me

???

You could say that about absolutely any government action taken, ever. It therefore is not a reasonable position to take.

[Phatscotty]

I don't look to other places to see what my place should be like. MYOB

[Frigidus]

I don't look to other places to see what my place should be like. MYOB

Well, OK, but why mention Massachusetts or Hawaii then?

[Snorri1234]

I don't look to other places to see what my place should be like. MYOB

Really? Are you suffering from some mental deficiency?

[stahrgazer]

Again, no one is preventing them from going to planned parenthood or spending $50 a month to get a circular container of pills for themselves. It would be like me forcing your company to provide coverage for religious meditation at a Catholic Monastery because meditation can releave stress and could promote overall health. You should really pay for that even though it costs extra. I want that in my plan and if you don't provide it for me you are discriminating against me.

Your numbers are way off. To get hormones for any reason, one must make a consultation appointment; typically a clinic requires some initial blood and/or urine tests before prescribing hormones, and most physicians require at least a quarterly visit for prescription renewals.

Of course, fertility is as natural as having a healthy heart is, but for some people, being fertile can be as deadly as having an unhealthy heart. For other people, hormonal supplements are needed to ensure they remain healthy and minimize their risk for cancer. My mother required hormones for that reason, and had to see a doctor monthly for blood work to get the necessary hormones; the hormone she received was a typical "birth control" hormone, but as she was past menopause, she was not taking them for birth control.

If hormones were available over the counter, I would agree with your comparison to meditation, which doesn't require a Catholic monastery - it could be a Buddhist monastery or NO monastery, so is available "over the counter".

If your religion wants to get 'biblical' - lust and gluttony are both in the list of "seven deadly sins" so if your religion thinks insurance shouldn't cover contraception because of a spiritual crime of lust, does the religion make an equal prohibition for providing insulin to diabetics whose spiritual crime usually begins with intake of too much sugar?

If you would make an argument that not everyone who needs insulin got diabetes because they ate too much sugar, I will again point out that not everyone who needs "birth control" needs it for contraceptive methods.

Maybe, instead, you believe that healthcare should be rationed for only the "deserving." The only patients who should receive heart transplants are those who have always eaten properly and always exercised properly, so that their heart disease is "through no fault of their own." Only those who contracted AIDS outside of sexual activity or illegal drug use should "deserve" their treatment; only those who always drank the right amount of water "deserve" kidney transplants.. and as to that, some religions are against kidney, heart, or other transplants, so maybe NO insurance should be required to pay for those.

[Symmetry]

Again, no one is preventing them from going to planned parenthood or spending $50 a month to get a circular container of pills for themselves. It would be like me forcing your company to provide coverage for religious meditation at a Catholic Monastery because meditation can releave stress and could promote overall health. You should really pay for that even though it costs extra. I want that in my plan and if you don't provide it for me you are discriminating against me.

Your numbers are way off. To get hormones for any reason, one must make a consultation appointment; typically a clinic requires some initial blood and/or urine tests before prescribing hormones, and most physicians require at least a quarterly visit for prescription renewals.

Of course, fertility is as natural as having a healthy heart is, but for some people, being fertile can be as deadly as having an unhealthy heart. For other people, hormonal supplements are needed to ensure they remain healthy and minimize their risk for cancer. My mother required hormones for that reason, and had to see a doctor monthly for blood work to get the necessary hormones; the hormone she received was a typical "birth control" hormone, but as she was past menopause, she was not taking them for birth control.

If hormones were available over the counter, I would agree with your comparison to meditation, which doesn't require a Catholic monastery - it could be a Buddhist monastery or NO monastery, so is available "over the counter".

If your religion wants to get 'biblical' - lust and gluttony are both in the list of "seven deadly sins" so if your religion thinks insurance shouldn't cover contraception because of a spiritual crime of lust, does the religion make an equal prohibition for providing insulin to diabetics whose spiritual crime usually begins with intake of too much sugar?

If you would make an argument that not everyone who needs insulin got diabetes because they ate too much sugar, I will again point out that not everyone who needs "birth control" needs it for contraceptive methods.

Maybe, instead, you believe that healthcare should be rationed for only the "deserving." The only patients who should receive heart transplants are those who have always eaten properly and always exercised properly, so that their heart disease is "through no fault of their own." Only those who contracted AIDS outside of sexual activity or illegal drug use should "deserve" their treatment; only those who always drank the right amount of water "deserve" kidney transplants.. and as to that, some religions are against kidney, heart, or other transplants, so maybe NO insurance should be required to pay for those.

This reminds me of a grim joke about there being "good AIDS" and "bad AIDS"depending on how you catch it.

Nicely put Stahrgazer.

[PopeBenXVI]

As usual your comparisons don't make sense. First, A JW doctor performing or not performing a procedure has nothing to do with whether or not insurance one might carry covers that procedure. Second, contraception is not a necessary part of "Health Care". It is not like needing a bi pass or cancer treatment. Fertility is a natural healthy function of your body in case you did not know that.

Like it or not, contraception IS very much a part of healthcare. YOU may make that choice for yourself, you have no right to decide that my doctor is an idiot and knows less than you about the matter.

You are however right that forcing others to do as you wish when they may not agree with it is Totalitarian just like forcing a private religious institution to cover unnecessary coverage for medication they deem sinful. You are avoiding that no one is preventing them from getting the pill. YOUR VIEW is Totalitarian because you are forcing.......mine is not because I am not forcing anything I am just not going to pay for it just like if you wanted a sex change operation. Pay for it yourself but stop being a Dictator and telling me I have to pay for your decisions on unnecessary procedures

I am the dictator? No one is FORCING anyone to use any medical care, just to provide insurance. You, by contrast, want to dictate to every women on Earth and their doctors what medication they should put into their bodies. If your church considers contraception sinful, then deal with it in church, NOT by claiming that insurance coverage somehow violates your rights.

I am not dictating anything, it's you and your commi contraception pushers that are the dictators. Their are far more people who need cancer treatment paid for than birth control pills to live so what is more important to you? The difference here again is you guys are the dictators forcing companies to pay for unnecessary things (just beacause you may want them) when the real problem is life saving treatment at affordable rates. Anyone who wants birth control can go buy them and I wont stop you but I wont pay for it.

For as much as Player talks about people going bankrupt over medical bills maybe you can point out how many of those people went bankrupt because they could not pay for their method of birth control.

I love how you types always complain about oppressive religious rules (that you don't even have to follow) but then you oppress others into doing your will legally and that's ok. Oh the hypocrisy.

[stahrgazer]

I am not dictating anything, it's you and your commi contraception pushers that are the dictators. Their are far more people who need cancer treatment paid for than birth control pills to live so what is more important to you?

As I noted in an earlier post, my mother required "birth control pills" to help keep her in remission. At some point, she couldn't afford the pills, and her insurance didn't pay for "contraceptives" regardless the reason.

My mother passed away Jan 12, 2002 from the cancer that returned within 6 months of her not able to purchase the proper hormones.

So, I say again, CONTRACEPTIVES ARE IMPORTANT - and not just to prevent pregnancy.

[Phatscotty]

I don't look to other places to see what my place should be like. MYOB

Well, OK, but why mention Massachusetts or Hawaii then?

Certainly you will grant we the right to look to other places AS EVIDENCE to understand how I DONT WANT TO BE! I don't have to go looking anywhere when I am happy as is

[Frigidus]

I don't look to other places to see what my place should be like. MYOB

Well, OK, but why mention Massachusetts or Hawaii then?

Certainly you will grant we the right to look to other places AS EVIDENCE to understand how I DONT WANT TO BE! I don't have to go looking anywhere when I am happy as is

You do have the right to point out the bad and ignore the good, but that doesn't cut it in an argument. You might not want something for whatever reason as an individual, but that isn't enough in a country of millions.

[MeDeFe]

Again, no one is preventing them from going to planned parenthood or spending $50 a month to get a circular container of pills for themselves. It would be like me forcing your company to provide coverage for religious meditation at a Catholic Monastery because meditation can releave stress and could promote overall health. You should really pay for that even though it costs extra. I want that in my plan and if you don't provide it for me you are discriminating against me.

Your numbers are way off. To get hormones for any reason, one must make a consultation appointment; typically a clinic requires some initial blood and/or urine tests before prescribing hormones, and most physicians require at least a quarterly visit for prescription renewals.

Of course, fertility is as natural as having a healthy heart is, but for some people, being fertile can be as deadly as having an unhealthy heart. For other people, hormonal supplements are needed to ensure they remain healthy and minimize their risk for cancer. My mother required hormones for that reason, and had to see a doctor monthly for blood work to get the necessary hormones; the hormone she received was a typical "birth control" hormone, but as she was past menopause, she was not taking them for birth control.

If hormones were available over the counter, I would agree with your comparison to meditation, which doesn't require a Catholic monastery - it could be a Buddhist monastery or NO monastery, so is available "over the counter".

If your religion wants to get 'biblical' - lust and gluttony are both in the list of "seven deadly sins" so if your religion thinks insurance shouldn't cover contraception because of a spiritual crime of lust, does the religion make an equal prohibition for providing insulin to diabetics whose spiritual crime usually begins with intake of too much sugar?

If you would make an argument that not everyone who needs insulin got diabetes because they ate too much sugar, I will again point out that not everyone who needs "birth control" needs it for contraceptive methods.

Maybe, instead, you believe that healthcare should be rationed for only the "deserving." The only patients who should receive heart transplants are those who have always eaten properly and always exercised properly, so that their heart disease is "through no fault of their own." Only those who contracted AIDS outside of sexual activity or illegal drug use should "deserve" their treatment; only those who always drank the right amount of water "deserve" kidney transplants.. and as to that, some religions are against kidney, heart, or other transplants, so maybe NO insurance should be required to pay for those.

This reminds me of a grim joke about there being "good AIDS" and "bad AIDS"depending on how you catch it.

Nicely put Stahrgazer.

[PLAYER57832]

I love how you types always complain about oppressive religious rules (that you don't even have to follow) but then you oppress others into doing your will legally and that's ok. Oh the hypocrisy.

Except you ARE insisting that not just I, but every other women in American must follow YOUR rules and not even the World/national churches' rules, by-the-way (the Roman Catholic church DOES allow use of hormones in come circumstances, they are narrow, but reasons do exist).

I only insist that you stop attempting to prevent this.

Having contraceptive coverage does not require you to use it. Removing that coverage, however, does effectively remove it from the reach of many people. Quit trying to lie or deny your way out of this. You are just plain wrong.

[PopeBenXVI]

I love how you types always complain about oppressive religious rules (that you don't even have to follow) but then you oppress others into doing your will legally and that's ok. Oh the hypocrisy.

Except you ARE insisting that not just I, but every other women in American must follow YOUR rules and not even the World/national churches' rules, by-the-way (the Roman Catholic church DOES allow use of hormones in come circumstances, they are narrow, but reasons do exist).

I only insist that you stop attempting to prevent this.

Having contraceptive coverage does not require you to use it. Removing that coverage, however, does effectively remove it from the reach of many people. Quit trying to lie or deny your way out of this. You are just plain wrong.

What the hell are you talking about? Show me where I just insisted you MUST follow my rules on not using contraception? I previously wrote "you can get your pills and I wont stop you but I am not paying for them" Thanks for lying again

I am talking about not forcing private companies to add things to what they pay for in their insurance coverage, I am not promoting the withholding of hormone replacement therapy you commi dictator!

Not having contraception coverage is not taking away the ability to get it yourself or get hormone replacement therapy. Stop misrepresenting.
Maybe I missed it but how many families did you say go bankrupt because the evil companies would not provide their contraception for them?

[Neoteny]

That's hilarious.

[spurgistan]

I don't look to other places to see what my place should be like. MYOB

Well, OK, but why mention Massachusetts or Hawaii then?

Certainly you will grant we the right to look to other places AS EVIDENCE to understand how I DONT WANT TO BE! I don't have to go looking anywhere when I am happy as is

You do have the right to point out the bad and ignore the good, but that doesn't cut it in an argument. You might not want something for whatever reason as an individual, but that isn't enough in a country of millions.

Can I ask what the hell is wrong with Massachusetts? We're actually doing just fine, and everybody has health care. Just sayin'.

[Phatscotty]

your state budget is doing just fine? hmm, just off the top of my head, I heard you guys spent way too much, and now your health program is way over budget, and you don't have enough taxes coming in, and the state is making big cuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwJKlvWx ... re=related

How divorced from reality are you?

[Titanic]

your state budget is doing just fine? hmm, just off the top of my head, I heard you guys spent way too much, and now your health program is way over budget, and you don't have enough taxes coming in, and the state is making big cuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwJKlvWx ... re=related

How divorced from reality are you?

What, as opposed to the private budgets? Not like any private corporations or individuals don't go bankrupt at all (Citigroup, Lehmans, GM etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc....)

[Phatscotty]

your state budget is doing just fine? hmm, just off the top of my head, I heard you guys spent way too much, and now your health program is way over budget, and you don't have enough taxes coming in, and the state is making big cuts.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwJKlvWx ... re=related

How divorced from reality are you?

What, as opposed to the private budgets? Not like any private corporations or individuals don't go bankrupt at all (Citigroup, Lehmans, GM etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc....)

total deflection into something un-related. total dodge to the issue at hand. thanks for playing