Do you smoke Pot?

[Snorri1234]

. People see it as comparable to cigarettes in its harm to lungs though, and frankly I just don't see it. Yes, maybe one joint may be equal to one cigarette in harmfulness,

Actually, the fact there is no filter and marijuana contains more tar makes it more harmfull than one cigarette, more like 2 or 3.

but people don't smoke weed nearly as often as cigarettes. ( A coupe joints a week vs. a pack of cigarettes every few days).

Still valid yes. It certainly isn't as harmfull as smoking. (Not to mention that a pack of cigarettes is really not much. I go to a pack every 2 days, even more when I go out.)

But making it more expensive, screw that!!! Haha, its already very expensive as it is now. And logically, I don't think it will get more expensive if legalized, but in fact, cheaper. Black markets cause higher prices. If the black market is eliminated, prices will...or should...drop considerably.

They will drop, but the government will raise huge taxes on it to "protect our health", like they do with cigarettes. Which is totally noble....even though they are banning a non-harmless substitute for it right now over here....

But still it's less expensive here where it's almost legal. (Big reason for that being the government can't tax it!)

[Napoleon Ier]

Think about it. A real goldmine!

[V.I.]

From an economic perspective alone, a 30% sales tax on drugs minus the cost of fighting the "war on drugs" makes it well worth the while.

I'm shocked, however I completely agree with Napoleon on this point. The amount of dollars tax-payers spend on the failing "War on Drugs" reaches into the billions each and every year.

Meanwhile, gangland violence, almost entirely supported with dollars from dealing illegal drugs, also exacts a high toll in dollars and human life. The number of imprisoned citizens on drug charges far exceeds all other offenses.

The capital saved on enforcement could be better used on prevention and rehabilitation programs.

[suggs]

Anyway, it should be legalised on the basis of a LOT of people smoke it.
It's tyranny of the majority otherwise.
Freedom, baby.

[Napoleon Ier]

Anyway, it should be legalised on the basis of a LOT of people smoke it.
It's tyranny of the majority otherwise.
Freedom, baby.

[Napoleon Ier]

That's it...fund my retirement...

[unriggable]

Napoleon, you keep smooth-talking your way through this forum but you never post evidence. Why would you ban something without a reason?

[Napoleon Ier]

Napoleon, you keep smooth-talking your way through this forum but you never post evidence. Why would you ban something without a reason?

[unriggable]

Napoleon, you keep smooth-talking your way through this forum but you never post evidence. Why would you ban something without a reason?

Informative.

[Napoleon Ier]

Napoleon, you keep smooth-talking your way through this forum but you never post evidence. Why would you ban something without a reason?

Informative.

Re-read what I'm saying. Carefully.

[riggable]

Napoleon, you keep smooth-talking your way through this forum but you never post evidence. Why would you ban something without a reason?

I have (annoyingly enough) read through this whole thread and there is no evidence that you have posted that is supporting the legalization of marijuana.

Furthermore, you shouldn't be arguing about banning a substance, as you have said, because you have already lost that argument due to the overwhelming fact that it is indead already illegal.

However, there are some reasons why the legalization of marijuana is a good idea. But (and this is coming from a self-proclaimed heavy pot smoker, but more than that, someone who has done a fair amount of research on this topic) I can easily find bigger/better arguments that show, realistically, that for a pot smoker/pot grower the worst thing that could happen is for the legalization of marijuana. I've already given a couple reasons, but I have lots more, as well as more evidence for those ones i've previously brought up.

[richardgarr]

IN my youth I smoked pot , hashish and oils, on a daily basis. I no longer smoke these things ,(my choice,simply does not appeal to me at this time)
yet many of my family,friends and people I know socially still do.
I personally believe that the time for re-legalizing the use of marijuana is long over due.
Even though I no longer smoke "pot", I have a lot of experience with this subject. There are many good points to why it should be legalized. Many of which are obvious; people being persecuted and jailed for possession of "pot", the ridiculous amount of time money and expense that is utilized in finding dealers, grow ops. Why! try and stop something that will never go away.? Sounds insane, sort of like a finger in the dike story.
The harm that a jail sentence can do to a persons life for possession of this relatively harmless substance. Imagine that school teacher , or cop, or professional of any sort , being jailed for "pot" possession, their reputation, job and home life is torn apart and destroyed, all because some self righteous politicians decided to make it illegal. The real harm being done by this , is being done by the law!

When I did smoke "pot" , it forced me to deal with drug dealers, the underbelly of society, the black market. By it being illegal I was put into a position that I had to put myself in dangerous situations, just so I could go home and mellow out.
Yes it was my choice to buy "pot" off of these types of people. and yes, a lot of these people also were involved in other illegal matters, that the "pot" helped fund.
Not wanting to be part of that world, I learned to grow my own, and make my own oils and hashish at home.

Many of the people I smoked with over the years were hard working honest folk , that enjoyed toking, so growing our own was the solution to being forced to deal in the black market. Problem with that is, if I had ever been caught , I would have been triad and sent to prison. Luckily I was not.
I can talk for a books worth on the benefits of pot, but I won't.lol.

1- legalization will seriously harm the funding of other illegal activities. Many gangs or dealers use pot as a income to fund other things.

2- It would relieve the over taxed jail and court systems

3- It could be monitored and made safe for use, through proper regulation of potency and control of what goes in it.

4- Legalization would create a legal market and as a result new business oprotunities .

5- The taxes made from the sale of pot would be substantial, as well as the money put towards jailing, investigating and trial of pot smokers, would be saved, and could be better put to use helping society instead of enforcing a pointless law.

6- By legalizing it , we can educate our youth properly, and teach responsible usage, just like we try to do with alcohol.

7. Many youth use 'pot" simply because they are told not to,

8- There are many medical uses for pot, as well as it is a great for helping people with eating and nerve disorders, it is a non-chemical remedy

OK , thats it for now. Just a few things off the top of my head.

[unriggable]

Napoleon, you keep smooth-talking your way through this forum but you never post evidence. Why would you ban something without a reason?

I have (annoyingly enough) read through this whole thread and there is no evidence that you have posted that is supporting the legalization of marijuana.

Well I'm basing my logic on the 'innocent until proven guilty' notion which rests in the idea that only things that deserve to be illegal should be illegal, and I have seen no good reasons so far.

But reasons to legalize - it is one of the best natural painkillers with little to no side effects, it has never directly caused a death, and it is less permanent in side effects than alcohol.

[riggable]

At richardgarr: gar f*ck! i had around 200 lines of reasoning arguing against most of your thinking above, and then when i clicked submit the computer said "PLEASE LOG IN" so i lost it all. Sorry. maybe i'll try later when i'm less frustrated.

Napoleon, you keep smooth-talking your way through this forum but you never post evidence. Why would you ban something without a reason?

I have (annoyingly enough) read through this whole thread and there is no evidence that you have posted that is supporting the legalization of marijuana.

Well I'm basing my logic on the 'innocent until proven guilty' notion which rests in the idea that only things that deserve to be illegal should be illegal, and I have seen no good reasons so far.

But reasons to legalize - it is one of the best natural painkillers with little to no side effects, it has never directly caused a death, and it is less permanent in side effects than alcohol.

it is, in fact, NOT the best natural painkiller at all. THis is a common myth that people try to associate with a reason to legalize pot. If you want a better painkiller, try tylenol, or even advil. The reason pot is a good painkiller for cancer patients is more of a mental thing. Most cancer patients inface take other pain medication along with pot. Furthermore, pot increases hunger(not a myth), and not-being-hungry is an issue with cancer patients.

Furthermore, weed can have disasterous side affects:
A person with a dependency on marijuana, who stops taking marijuana, can feel a 'withdrawal' just like a cocaine or heroin addict. I've read independent reports in which a person, after stopping smoking marijuana after daily use for an extended period of time, felt symptons such as "Pain in the kidneys comparable to kidney stones"
weed, while fantastic, is not a harmless drug, and to think otherwise is slightly naive.

Also, to say marijuana has never been the cause of a death is saying that a knife sharpener has never been the cause of a stabbing. Marijuana inhibits and changes many parts of the brain linked to emotions and reflexes and choice-making ability. This can cause things such as car accidents, much like DUI, when in conjonction with marijuana. This is why Cops, who pull over teenagers for speeding or other driving violations, ask and frequently search cars for signs of marijuana use.


I'll leave it there because I'm still pissed about all my infromation I wrote to RichardGarr being deleted, but you get my drift.

Again, I'm a heavy pot user! i love the idea of pot, smoking pot, and being high. I'm just heavily against legalizing it, and I have to defend my views even if it goes against a beloved plant.

[Snorri1234]

it is, in fact, NOT the best natural painkiller at all. THis is a common myth that people try to associate with a reason to legalize pot. If you want a better painkiller, try tylenol, or even advil. The reason pot is a good painkiller for cancer patients is more of a mental thing. Most cancer patients inface take other pain medication along with pot. Furthermore, pot increases hunger(not a myth), and not-being-hungry is an issue with cancer patients.

He said one of the best. And tylenol isn't very natural if you're referring to the stuff in the supermarket.
But it IS a very good painkiller for diseases where normal painkillers just don't work that good. And it doesn't have the bad effects of other medicines.

Furthermore, weed can have disasterous side affects:
A person with a dependency on marijuana, who stops taking marijuana, can feel a 'withdrawal' just like a cocaine or heroin addict. I've read independent reports in which a person, after stopping smoking marijuana after daily use for an extended period of time, felt symptons such as "Pain in the kidneys comparable to kidney stones"
weed, while fantastic, is not a harmless drug, and to think otherwise is slightly naive.

Kicking the habit from marijuana is waaay easier than kicking heroin. Most of it is psychological dependency anyway, and the fact it is not as addictive as other drugs (and cigarettes) means kicking it is relatively easy for most people. We don't ban alcohol because some people get heavily addicted to it, do we?

Also, to say marijuana has never been the cause of a death is saying that a knife sharpener has never been the cause of a stabbing. Marijuana inhibits and changes many parts of the brain linked to emotions and reflexes and choice-making ability. This can cause things such as car accidents, much like DUI, when in conjonction with marijuana. This is why Cops, who pull over teenagers for speeding or other driving violations, ask and frequently search cars for signs of marijuana use.

When you're high, you're far less likely to run over people or cause accidents in the car. Because people who are high realise their driving-ability is affected, something not in common with alcohol which gives you overconfidence.

I'll leave it there because I'm still pissed about all my infromation I wrote to RichardGarr being deleted, but you get my drift.

Could've gone back and copied it?

[sam_levi_11]

no, i do better stuff, but what is it to you

[riggable]

it is, in fact, NOT the best natural painkiller at all. THis is a common myth that people try to associate with a reason to legalize pot. If you want a better painkiller, try tylenol, or even advil. The reason pot is a good painkiller for cancer patients is more of a mental thing. Most cancer patients inface take other pain medication along with pot. Furthermore, pot increases hunger(not a myth), and not-being-hungry is an issue with cancer patients.

He said one of the best. And tylenol isn't very natural if you're referring to the stuff in the supermarket.
But it IS a very good painkiller for diseases where normal painkillers just don't work that good. And it doesn't have the bad effects of other medicines.

You are completely making this up. There is no way to quantify the bad effects of marijuana in comparison to the bad effects of Tylenol, or advil, or any other pain medicine. The truth is, there are lots of on-shelf medicines that don't have serious side affects if taken properly, and which do the job of killing-pain much better than marijuana. Hence, legalizing marijuana for its 'pain-killing ability' is not a good reason. Legalizing marijuana for its beneficial effects for people with fatal diseases, on the other hand, isn't that bad of a reason(and hey! what do you know! it is legal in some places in the U.S.)

Furthermore, weed can have disasterous side affects:
A person with a dependency on marijuana, who stops taking marijuana, can feel a 'withdrawal' just like a cocaine or heroin addict. I've read independent reports in which a person, after stopping smoking marijuana after daily use for an extended period of time, felt symptons such as "Pain in the kidneys comparable to kidney stones"
weed, while fantastic, is not a harmless drug, and to think otherwise is slightly naive.

Kicking the habit from marijuana is waaay easier than kicking heroin. Most of it is psychological dependency anyway, and the fact it is not as addictive as other drugs (and cigarettes) means kicking it is relatively easy for most people. We don't ban alcohol because some people get heavily addicted to it, do we?

Obviously kicking the habit of marijuana is easier than heroin, I didn't claim otherwise and I wouldn't claim otherwise. Nearly all of marijuana addiction is psychological dependancy, and you make it seem like that makes it less real, which is untrue. Psychological dependency can be just as hard to break as a physical dependency, depending on the person.
And your right in saying people get heavily addicted to alcohol, and guess what? it is banned for some people,(those of us under 21), just not illegal for everyone. Alcohol is banned for kids under 21 for specifically 2 reasons, one of which being that the younger kids are statistically more likely to get heavily addicted to it than older adults. I'm not saying that I agree with that sentiment, but thats a reason given.
And your point is moot in any case, because alcohol IS legal for people of age, whereas marijuana is illegal.

Also, to say marijuana has never been the cause of a death is saying that a knife sharpener has never been the cause of a stabbing. Marijuana inhibits and changes many parts of the brain linked to emotions and reflexes and choice-making ability. This can cause things such as car accidents, much like DUI, when in conjonction with marijuana. This is why Cops, who pull over teenagers for speeding or other driving violations, ask and frequently search cars for signs of marijuana use.

When you're high, you're far less likely to run over people or cause accidents in the car. Because people who are high realise their driving-ability is affected, something not in common with alcohol which gives you overconfidence.

I'm sorry, but your point is simply not true, and your reasoning is even more absurd. I could give chemical reaction evidence as to why this isn't true, but i'll leave it simply to the fact that I drove stoned a couple of days ago and I drove worse that I had in a long time.
Saying alcohol gives you overconfidence has absolutely nothing to do with this argument, as i would agree that DUI is a horrible offense, and we would agree on this I think.

I'll leave it there because I'm still pissed about all my infromation I wrote to RichardGarr being deleted, but you get my drift.

Could've gone back and copied it?

[/quote]
tried to, i'll rewrite it in awhile when I get to the time, if I feel like it.

[unriggable]

it is, in fact, NOT the best natural painkiller at all. THis is a common myth that people try to associate with a reason to legalize pot. If you want a better painkiller, try tylenol, or even advil. The reason pot is a good painkiller for cancer patients is more of a mental thing. Most cancer patients inface take other pain medication along with pot. Furthermore, pot increases hunger(not a myth), and not-being-hungry is an issue with cancer patients.

He said one of the best. And tylenol isn't very natural if you're referring to the stuff in the supermarket.
But it IS a very good painkiller for diseases where normal painkillers just don't work that good. And it doesn't have the bad effects of other medicines.

You are completely making this up. There is no way to quantify the bad effects of marijuana in comparison to the bad effects of Tylenol, or advil, or any other pain medicine. The truth is, there are lots of on-shelf medicines that don't have serious side affects if taken properly, and which do the job of killing-pain much better than marijuana. Hence, legalizing marijuana for its 'pain-killing ability' is not a good reason. Legalizing marijuana for its beneficial effects for people with fatal diseases, on the other hand, isn't that bad of a reason(and hey! what do you know! it is legal in some places in the U.S.)

Sure its inefficient but it has literally no side effects. Not to mention that it acts instantly - some people just can't wait.

Furthermore, weed can have disasterous side affects:
A person with a dependency on marijuana, who stops taking marijuana, can feel a 'withdrawal' just like a cocaine or heroin addict. I've read independent reports in which a person, after stopping smoking marijuana after daily use for an extended period of time, felt symptons such as "Pain in the kidneys comparable to kidney stones"
weed, while fantastic, is not a harmless drug, and to think otherwise is slightly naive.

Kicking the habit from marijuana is waaay easier than kicking heroin. Most of it is psychological dependency anyway, and the fact it is not as addictive as other drugs (and cigarettes) means kicking it is relatively easy for most people. We don't ban alcohol because some people get heavily addicted to it, do we?

Obviously kicking the habit of marijuana is easier than heroin, I didn't claim otherwise and I wouldn't claim otherwise. Nearly all of marijuana addiction is psychological dependancy, and you make it seem like that makes it less real, which is untrue. Psychological dependency can be just as hard to break as a physical dependency, depending on the person.
And your right in saying people get heavily addicted to alcohol, and guess what? it is banned for some people,(those of us under 21), just not illegal for everyone. Alcohol is banned for kids under 21 for specifically 2 reasons, one of which being that the younger kids are statistically more likely to get heavily addicted to it than older adults. I'm not saying that I agree with that sentiment, but thats a reason given.
And your point is moot in any case, because alcohol IS legal for people of age, whereas marijuana is illegal.[/quote]

Two things.
He's saying that if a drug which is somewhat easy to get addicted to is legal, why make a drug which is less addictive illegal? It's like making automatic weapons legal but banning pistols.

Also, it's statistically proven that children who live in countries where they are legally allowed to drink at any age will binge a lot less often than places like here, because they see the drink the same way they see coca-cola.

[riggable]

it is, in fact, NOT the best natural painkiller at all. THis is a common myth that people try to associate with a reason to legalize pot. If you want a better painkiller, try tylenol, or even advil. The reason pot is a good painkiller for cancer patients is more of a mental thing. Most cancer patients inface take other pain medication along with pot. Furthermore, pot increases hunger(not a myth), and not-being-hungry is an issue with cancer patients.

He said one of the best. And tylenol isn't very natural if you're referring to the stuff in the supermarket.
But it IS a very good painkiller for diseases where normal painkillers just don't work that good. And it doesn't have the bad effects of other medicines.

You are completely making this up. There is no way to quantify the bad effects of marijuana in comparison to the bad effects of Tylenol, or advil, or any other pain medicine. The truth is, there are lots of on-shelf medicines that don't have serious side affects if taken properly, and which do the job of killing-pain much better than marijuana. Hence, legalizing marijuana for its 'pain-killing ability' is not a good reason. Legalizing marijuana for its beneficial effects for people with fatal diseases, on the other hand, isn't that bad of a reason(and hey! what do you know! it is legal in some places in the U.S.)

Sure its inefficient but it has literally no side effects. Not to mention that it acts instantly - some people just can't wait

Well, once again this isn't true, but then again, what most people use who want the pain killer that 'acts instantly' as you say, don't even smoke pot. They take pure ThC pills: thats something that is 100% THC as opposed to 12-20% Thc of Marijuana. Scientists are working on synthesyzing pure ThC, as we speak. Then, we can have the people who need the benefits of the ThC get it without ruining the definition and lifestyle of pot and potheads.

and I would be totally for a synthesized pure THC pill, obviously.

[Snorri1234]

I'm sorry, but your point is simply not true, and your reasoning is even more absurd. I could give chemical reaction evidence as to why this isn't true, but i'll leave it simply to the fact that I drove stoned a couple of days ago and I drove worse that I had in a long time.
Saying alcohol gives you overconfidence has absolutely nothing to do with this argument, as i would agree that DUI is a horrible offense, and we would agree on this I think.

My bad, yeah I see what I typed didn't make sense at all. I tried to say that when stoned you're far less likely to run over people than if you were drunk. Obviously driving when stoned is worse than driving sober.
Stoned driving is not the bestest idea ever, but it really isn't as bad as driving while drunk.

[Bavarian Raven]

why would you even want it legal? smoking of ANYKIND is bad and should be outlawed ASAP for everyone's sake.

[darvlay]

why would you even want it legal? smoking of ANYKIND is bad and should be outlawed ASAP for everyone's sake.

Jawohl, mein fuhrer!

[Napoleon Ier]

Obviously hard drugs should be illegal in public spaces, but if some idiot crackhead wants to die, fine, that's one less person honest taxpayers have to pay welfare for. As or those who do earn and smoke, we can tax their products ridiculously, bringing in huge revenue. legalizing drugs is the ultimate tax-targeting strategy - idiots pay for useful elements in society to advance themselves.

*awaits horrified reaction from snorri claiming drugs boost IQ by 10 points per use*

[Dancing Mustard]

drugs boost IQ by 10 points per use

Perhaps you should try some?

[Napoleon Ier]

drugs boost IQ by 10 points per use

Perhaps you should try some?

Yes, I do have an unfair advantage over you, it's true.