Jesus Christ!

[Snorri1234]

I love the way this complete goon thinks people are more concerned about paedophile priests (which are, in any case a myth invented by the socialo-politico-mediato-masonic sub-structures that pervert public opinion) than about Islamic terror.

Hahaha, sexual abuse by priests is a myth! Awesome!

[Guiscard]

I love the way this complete goon thinks people are more concerned about paedophile priests (which are, in any case a myth invented by the socialo-politico-mediato-masonic sub-structures that pervert public opinion) than about Islamic terror.

Hahaha, sexual abuse by priests is a myth! Awesome!

Classic!

[Napoleon Ier]

I love the way this complete goon thinks people are more concerned about paedophile priests (which are, in any case a myth invented by the socialo-politico-mediato-masonic sub-structures that pervert public opinion) than about Islamic terror.

Hahaha, sexual abuse by priests is a myth! Awesome!

Find me a single reliable statistic relating Holy Orders with a higher incidence of paedophilia.

[Snorri1234]

I love the way this complete goon thinks people are more concerned about paedophile priests (which are, in any case a myth invented by the socialo-politico-mediato-masonic sub-structures that pervert public opinion) than about Islamic terror.

Hahaha, sexual abuse by priests is a myth! Awesome!

Find me a single reliable statistic relating Holy Orders with a higher incidence of paedophilia.

Did I ever say that was the case?

[comic boy]

Both, I think...


Hello Napoleon Ier, Your account has been issued a Forum Ban, which prevents posting in the forum and accessing private messages. Comment from Moderator (moz976): You just had to push the limit, eh? Wicked just warned you not to flame outside flame wars, and what's the very next post you make? Another flame in the Jesus Christ thread. As promised, here's your 24-hr forum timeout. Yes we really do mean what we say. Regards,The Conquer Club

Oh, I also want to lodge an official complaint about this flagrant example of uninteligeent racism and abuse:

I think an interesting point was made earlier that most people are rather more concerned about Catholic priests buggering boys in the very recent past.

I love the way this complete goon thinks people are more concerned about paedophile priests (which are, in any case a myth invented by the socialo-politico-mediato-masonic sub-structures that pervert public opinion) than about Islamic terror.

Goon !

It would appear that you are incapable of making a point without name calling, just dont learn do you ?

[Skittles!]

I love the way this complete goon thinks people are more concerned about paedophile priests (which are, in any case a myth invented by the socialo-politico-mediato-masonic sub-structures that pervert public opinion) than about Islamic terror.

Hahaha, sexual abuse by priests is a myth! Awesome!

Find me a single reliable statistic relating Holy Orders with a higher incidence of paedophilia.

Find one yourself, I'm pretty sure there are quite a few of them when the Catholic church protected priests who were paedophiles. Not all, mind you, but some have been and there have been cases on them. If you do not want to be in the real world and think the Catholic church is great and perfect, then you obviously won't believe there have been cases against said above.

[Jenos Ridan]

While Naps comes off as a loon, I have this to ask: How many evil things did Jesus do? How many innocents were murdered under His orders by His disciples or at His Hands? How many young women were defiled by the Twelve or the Lord Himself? Did Jesus EVER say to spread His word by the sword? How many Romans, Greeks and Jews died in which battles with His followers in Galliee? Where was His armed camp and HQ? Can you name the Cities His Disciples (Peter, Luke, Matthew, etc.) razed to the ground?

Until you address this, I don't think the agrument is remotely taking in all the facts.

You're approaching this from the wrong direction. Sure, Mohammad wasn't a nice guy by today's standards. However, was he significantly worse than any other major military figure? No.

How much private property did Sherman devastate? How many cities did the Caesars raze? How many women were raped and children killed in the Fall of Troy?

Yes, Jesus does have a better record than Mohammad. God, (who IS Jesus) however, doesn't. A 30 second Google search revealed 744 instances of God randomly killing people. Admittedly the source isn't very good, but, since they're all refrenced, I would assume at least a majority are in context. Now, I'm sure you can match me instance for instance on murderous acts endorsed by the Koran, but then you'll be missing the point. Christianity is not as squeaky-clean as you claim. Christianity is not inherently better, or worse, than Islam.

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

[heavycola]

My god you are insufferable.
let's play:

Nappy 1er's Choose Your Own Adventure™!

page 46

Incredibly, an inferior intellect has pointed out an "error"(!) in something you have posted. How do you respond?

a) 'OMG lyke u r not inteelijent 3n0ugh to b3 on teh saym 1nt3rnets as le great napoleon l3t al0ne teh same w3ebsit!!111 L0L11!!!'
b) 'your point is, in any case, a myth invented by the socialo-politico-mediato-masonic sub-structures that pervert public opinion'
c) 'Acftually, <insert hilarious misspelling of poster's nick>, you are not fit to lick the biactol from my sinkhole'
d) Express your disbelief and disgust that anyone who is not you has disagreed with one of your infallible pronouncements (may lead to fight with pope later in book)
e) Attempt to patronise poster without actually responding to his/her point (probability of success: 1/100)

YOU decide!

[comic boy]

While Naps comes off as a loon, I have this to ask: How many evil things did Jesus do? How many innocents were murdered under His orders by His disciples or at His Hands? How many young women were defiled by the Twelve or the Lord Himself? Did Jesus EVER say to spread His word by the sword? How many Romans, Greeks and Jews died in which battles with His followers in Galliee? Where was His armed camp and HQ? Can you name the Cities His Disciples (Peter, Luke, Matthew, etc.) razed to the ground?

Until you address this, I don't think the agrument is remotely taking in all the facts.

You're approaching this from the wrong direction. Sure, Mohammad wasn't a nice guy by today's standards. However, was he significantly worse than any other major military figure? No.

How much private property did Sherman devastate? How many cities did the Caesars raze? How many women were raped and children killed in the Fall of Troy?

Yes, Jesus does have a better record than Mohammad. God, (who IS Jesus) however, doesn't. A 30 second Google search revealed 744 instances of God randomly killing people. Admittedly the source isn't very good, but, since they're all refrenced, I would assume at least a majority are in context. Now, I'm sure you can match me instance for instance on murderous acts endorsed by the Koran, but then you'll be missing the point. Christianity is not as squeaky-clean as you claim. Christianity is not inherently better, or worse, than Islam.

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

Couldnt agree more

[MeDeFe]

Well Jenos, that's your definition of a Christian, other Christians might have somewhat different definitions. That has already been pointed out in this thread, though, religion is very much a case of interpreting the scripture.

Of course the OT points straight to Jesus, the books were put in an order that would make them do so. The Torah has largely the same books, but in a different order and they don't point to him. So, meh, I rest my case.

As for role-models, there's next to nothing about Jesus from the time when he lived. Some notes by roman historians that a person calling himself the Christ is walking around and doing some talking. The gospels were first written several decades after his death, and none by his disciples as I recall. Maybe he would have been as good a model if there were sources from the time when he lived mentioning him, maybe he wouldn't be much better than Mohammed.

[joecoolfrog]

Both, I think...


Hello Napoleon Ier, Your account has been issued a Forum Ban, which prevents posting in the forum and accessing private messages. Comment from Moderator (moz976): You just had to push the limit, eh? Wicked just warned you not to flame outside flame wars, and what's the very next post you make? Another flame in the Jesus Christ thread. As promised, here's your 24-hr forum timeout. Yes we really do mean what we say. Regards,The Conquer Club

Oh, I also want to lodge an official complaint about this flagrant example of uninteligeent racism and abuse:

I think an interesting point was made earlier that most people are rather more concerned about Catholic priests buggering boys in the very recent past.

I love the way this complete goon thinks people are more concerned about paedophile priests (which are, in any case a myth invented by the socialo-politico-mediato-masonic sub-structures that pervert public opinion) than about Islamic terror.

I love the way the troll makes 2+2 = 5

[Jenos Ridan]

Well Jenos, that's your definition of a Christian, other Christians might have somewhat different definitions. That has already been pointed out in this thread, though, religion is very much a case of interpreting the scripture.

Last I checked, "my" definition is not alot different that most denominations.

Of course the OT points straight to Jesus, the books were put in an order that would make them do so. The Torah has largely the same books, but in a different order and they don't point to him. So, meh, I rest my case.

Eh? The prophecies in Isaiah don't point to Jesus? Well who do they point too?! I really doubt the order would matter much, being that the books, you already conceeded, are the same.

As for role-models, there's next to nothing about Jesus from the time when he lived. Some notes by roman historians that a person calling himself the Christ is walking around and doing some talking.

And this invalidates the example given by Him how?

The gospels were first written several decades after his death, and none by his disciples as I recall.

Does not prove that Luke, Matthew, Mark and John didn't see and hear what they did, assuming that you are indeed right about them not having wrote them. The gosples depict things from a very close persective, too close I think for anyone who was not actually present at the events in question.

Maybe he would have been as good a model if there were sources from the time when he lived mentioning him, maybe he wouldn't be much better than Mohammed.

That is simply absurd; If He was as bad as Mohammad (or somehow worse), the Romans would have cleaned Judea out alot sooner than 70 AD.

[Neutrino]

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

Yes, as I said, Christ has a better record than Mohammad. However, that's not very hard. Mohammad was a military leader, first and foremost and military leaders frequently aren't the nicest people in the world. It's why you criticise him for this that puzzles me so. You describe yourself as an "armchair general", so I would assume you're ambivalent, at worse, to the concept of war. Why all the hate for Mohammad, then? There really isn't a great deal of difference between him and any other major military figure.


That last bit also strikes me as a little ignorant. Aside from being a huge generalization and entirely subjective, the superiority that you claim Christianity achieved wasn't even through Christianity's actions. Christianity was quite happy leeching off the fuedal system and resisted the advances of the last few hundred years with all its might.

[Iliad]

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

Yes, as I said, Christ has a better record than Mohammad. However, that's not very hard. Mohammad was a military leader, first and foremost and military leaders frequently aren't the nicest people in the world. It's why you criticise him for this that puzzles me so. You describe yourself as an "armchair general", so I would assume you're ambivalent, at worse, to the concept of war. Why all the hate for Mohammad, then? There really isn't a great deal of difference between him and any other major military figure.


That last bit also strikes me as a little ignorant. Aside from being a huge generalization and entirely subjective, the superiority that you claim Christianity achieved wasn't even through Christianity's actions. Christianity was quite happy leeching off the fuedal system and resisted the advances of the last few hundred years with all its might.

no they didn't. Those scientists just needed a few rocks for their telescopes and they needed to see how the planets moved

[Skittles!]

Jenos, you claim to of read the Qu'ran. If you did, you would know that the Islamic religion was constantly attacked via pagan religions and Jewish tribes when the Hijrah (Sp?) was going on. No wonder why Mohammed is claimed as having a bad record, because he was trying to protect his faith. Wow! Why didn't it come to me before?

[Napoleon Ier]

Jenos, you claim to of read the Qu'ran. If you did, you would know that the Islamic religion was constantly attacked via pagan religions and Jewish tribes when the Hijrah (Sp?) was going on. No wonder why Mohammed is claimed as having a bad record, because he was trying to protect his faith. Wow! Why didn't it come to me before?

"Protecting" land you've taken off other people in the first place doesn't justify war crimes committed by Mohammad. No, he wasn't very different from plenty of military leaders: but as far as Islam is concerned, all he and his actions were infallible in their morality, which is just what makes Islam so harmful.

[Guiscard]

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

Yes, as I said, Christ has a better record than Mohammad. However, that's not very hard. Mohammad was a military leader, first and foremost and military leaders frequently aren't the nicest people in the world. It's why you criticise him for this that puzzles me so. You describe yourself as an "armchair general", so I would assume you're ambivalent, at worse, to the concept of war. Why all the hate for Mohammad, then? There really isn't a great deal of difference between him and any other major military figure.

Indeed. It's all a matter of context, which was the point Jenos missed in my original post. Neither Jesus nor Muhammad were planning their message based around the morals of a specific period centuries later. The message Jesus was preaching was specifically tailored to a people within an organised and relatively stable society: Live your every day life in these ways, obey the laws of the land, treat others as you would have them treat you... A good message, certainly, and many of the elements also apply to the western world today. When we look at the interpretation of Christ's message in more turbulent times, for example in sub-Roman Britain or Northern Europe, we see a much more violent interpretation, and more stress on the Old Testement verses which promote the military superiority of God's chosen peoples. As Neutrion said, Muhammad was a prophet in a turbulent tribal society, very similar to the Israelites in the OT. You can't blame him for tailoring his message to his surroundings. Moses was a prophet, but also a leader in war, and God was fully supportive in his efforts. Would you criticise Moses now because his message doesn't necessarily apply to our current moral system or way of life? I doubt it.

[brooksieb]

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

Yes, as I said, Christ has a better record than Mohammad. However, that's not very hard. Mohammad was a military leader, first and foremost and military leaders frequently aren't the nicest people in the world. It's why you criticise him for this that puzzles me so. You describe yourself as an "armchair general", so I would assume you're ambivalent, at worse, to the concept of war. Why all the hate for Mohammad, then? There really isn't a great deal of difference between him and any other major military figure.


That last bit also strikes me as a little ignorant. Aside from being a huge generalization and entirely subjective, the superiority that you claim Christianity achieved wasn't even through Christianity's actions. Christianity was quite happy leeching off the fuedal system and resisted the advances of the last few hundred years with all its might.

mohammed was not a military leader, a guy called hamza was, mohammed was like jesus about being slapped or something like that, take the slap and don't slap back, look or get the film [/b]the message
it shows you how islam was made and is backed from religous leaders and councils in egypt and lebanon

[brooksieb]

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

Yes, as I said, Christ has a better record than Mohammad. However, that's not very hard. Mohammad was a military leader, first and foremost and military leaders frequently aren't the nicest people in the world. It's why you criticise him for this that puzzles me so. You describe yourself as an "armchair general", so I would assume you're ambivalent, at worse, to the concept of war. Why all the hate for Mohammad, then? There really isn't a great deal of difference between him and any other major military figure.


That last bit also strikes me as a little ignorant. Aside from being a huge generalization and entirely subjective, the superiority that you claim Christianity achieved wasn't even through Christianity's actions. Christianity was quite happy leeching off the fuedal system and resisted the advances of the last few hundred years with all its might.

mohammed was not a military leader, a guy called hamza was, mohammed was like jesus about being slapped or something like that, take the slap and don't slap back, look or get the film [/b]the message[b]
it shows you how islam was made and is backed from religous leaders and councils in egypt and lebanon

[brooksieb]

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

Yes, as I said, Christ has a better record than Mohammad. However, that's not very hard. Mohammad was a military leader, first and foremost and military leaders frequently aren't the nicest people in the world. It's why you criticise him for this that puzzles me so. You describe yourself as an "armchair general", so I would assume you're ambivalent, at worse, to the concept of war. Why all the hate for Mohammad, then? There really isn't a great deal of difference between him and any other major military figure.


That last bit also strikes me as a little ignorant. Aside from being a huge generalization and entirely subjective, the superiority that you claim Christianity achieved wasn't even through Christianity's actions. Christianity was quite happy leeching off the fuedal system and resisted the advances of the last few hundred years with all its might.

mohammed was not a military leader, a guy called hamza was, mohammed was like jesus about being slapped or something like that, take the slap and don't slap back, look or get the film [/b]the message[b]
it shows you how islam was made and is backed from religous leaders and councils in egypt and lebanon

[brooksieb]

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

Yes, as I said, Christ has a better record than Mohammad. However, that's not very hard. Mohammad was a military leader, first and foremost and military leaders frequently aren't the nicest people in the world. It's why you criticise him for this that puzzles me so. You describe yourself as an "armchair general", so I would assume you're ambivalent, at worse, to the concept of war. Why all the hate for Mohammad, then? There really isn't a great deal of difference between him and any other major military figure.


That last bit also strikes me as a little ignorant. Aside from being a huge generalization and entirely subjective, the superiority that you claim Christianity achieved wasn't even through Christianity's actions. Christianity was quite happy leeching off the fuedal system and resisted the advances of the last few hundred years with all its might.

mohammed was not a military leader, a guy called hamza was, mohammed was like jesus about being slapped or something like that, take the slap and don't slap back, look or get the film [/b]the message[b]
it shows you how islam was made and is backed from religous leaders and councils in egypt and lebanon

[Neoteny]

Take a careful look at the label 'Christian'. Especially the part prior to 'ian.' In order to be one, one must be a fairly good representation of Christ. Meaning, whatever Jesus did and said is WHAT CHRISTIANS BELIEVE PERIOD THE FRIGGIN' DOT! I could take more time to do into minute detail about it all but suffice it to say for now that I have told you this before, others surely have, and I will not be the last "moronic skydaddyist" who will tell you this. Simply put, Jesus is the ONLY role-model we should follow and that is because that was His purpose. Furthermore, the entirety of the Old Testament was working towards and pointing RIGHT AT HIM! He was the forfillment of everything man needed to do, ritually, to make himself right. The New Testament is all about the new covenant between man and God, some things have changed (bacon for breakfast, two kinds of thread in my shirt, etc), others remain the same (adultery is still wrong, as is murdur and stealing, etc.). Also, He don't ask for 110%, only that you have an honest and sincere desire to know Him and walk His narrow path. That is why Islam fails to compare, indeed, why all the religions of the world always end up coming up short; alot of the time, the role-model is poor or the message is something along the lines of "life sucks, grin and take it like a man". But go ahead, laugh it up, make your wisecracks and then when you are done, come back and we'll have an honest little chat again.

Yes, as I said, Christ has a better record than Mohammad. However, that's not very hard. Mohammad was a military leader, first and foremost and military leaders frequently aren't the nicest people in the world. It's why you criticise him for this that puzzles me so. You describe yourself as an "armchair general", so I would assume you're ambivalent, at worse, to the concept of war. Why all the hate for Mohammad, then? There really isn't a great deal of difference between him and any other major military figure.


That last bit also strikes me as a little ignorant. Aside from being a huge generalization and entirely subjective, the superiority that you claim Christianity achieved wasn't even through Christianity's actions. Christianity was quite happy leeching off the fuedal system and resisted the advances of the last few hundred years with all its might.

mohammed was not a military leader, a guy called hamza was, mohammed was like jesus about being slapped or something like that, take the slap and don't slap back, look or get the film [/b]the message[b]
it shows you how islam was made and is backed from religous leaders and councils in egypt and lebanon

I wouldn't necessarily call him a general in the vein of Alexander, but his political movements and a good sense of timing did help win him some territory.

[Jenos Ridan]

Jenos, you claim to of read the Qu'ran. If you did, you would know that the Islamic religion was constantly attacked via pagan religions and Jewish tribes when the Hijrah (Sp?) was going on. No wonder why Mohammed is claimed as having a bad record, because he was trying to protect his faith. Wow! Why didn't it come to me before?

Jews attacked him! Absurd, he was told by the Jewish elders "we do not accept you as one of our prophets" and he wigged out. That is why the Muslims now face Mekka, a former site of arab pagan worship. As I recall, he struck them first. Want to explain to us all were Dhirimitude comes from or what exactly it is?

You know what, chew on this:

Sura 14:4
"We sent not a messenger except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. So Allah leads astray those whom Ho pleases and guides whom He pleases and He is Exalted in power, full of wisdom."

Leads astray? So Allah, apparently, can righteously send a good man to predition and send evil men to paradise.

Sura 2:6-7
"As to those who reject Faith. It is the same to them whether you warn them or do not warm them; they will not believe. Allah has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearing. And on their eyes is a veil; Great is the chastisement they [incur]."

Confirmed! Allah will send you to hell or heaven on a whim. This stands in stark contrast to the examples of Yahweh given in John 3:16, Romans 5:8 and 1 John 5:13. This is reinforced by Sura 8:30 "They plot and plan, and Allah too plans, but the best of planners (planners meaning deceivers) is Allah." and the notion of Jihad, the only sure way to enter paradise, is explained in no uncertain terms in Sura 3:157, 2:193 and 9:29. Allah's whilly nature concerning heaven and hell is repeated in Sura 2:284 "Allah forgives whom He pleases, and punishes whom He pleases, for Allah as power over all things." This stands diametrically opposed to Romans 10:13 "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."

Defending his family is one thing, coming to the aid of kin or tribal allies is another, but flat-out telling people to go out and kill a poet for satrizing him? Saying that people go straight to paradise for such things? Establishing a code may which Jews and Christians are taxed simply by being Jewish or Christian in land that used to be theirs but is now Muslim-occupied?

Still think that the two are even the tiniest bit similar? I'll have none of that "Crusades and Inquistion" tripe, nothing those heretics did was validated by anything Jesus, the Apostles, or any of the early followers did, absolutely nothing. There is a reason why in most bibles the words spoken by Jesus are in red, those are the words He spoke. Those words are the truth of God from God Himself. End of story. So, if you wish to continue this excerise, be my guess.

[heavycola]

Go Jenos! You SHOW the world's billion muslims how wrong they are! If only they could read your post, christianity would win everywhere and islam would slink into oblivion, sheepish and chastised.

The way you intepreted bits of the Quran to fit your argument - brilliant! The way you dismissed the crusaders as heretics - wow! Kazam! KO!

It's so simple!
Christianity = sensible and unimpeachable
Islam = deceiver-worshipping, violent and silly

Thanks, Jenos!

[heavycola]

Jenos, you claim to of read the Qu'ran. If you did, you would know that the Islamic religion was constantly attacked via pagan religions and Jewish tribes when the Hijrah (Sp?) was going on. No wonder why Mohammed is claimed as having a bad record, because he was trying to protect his faith. Wow! Why didn't it come to me before?

but as far as Islam is concerned, all he and his actions were infallible in their morality,

Like nazi-collaborating popes?