BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN SHOWN IN SCHOOL

[Jenos Ridan]

Fine your opinion is that homosexuality is a sin, while I don't agree with you, it is your opinion. If you are tolerant that doesn't mean that you won't tell gay people what dangers they face. Your entire argument is wrong.

Except that's not what you're doing. You're labeling those who disagree with the homosexual lifestyle based on scripture as homophobes...not very tolerant and open-minded of you.

Anyone can say they are open-minded on any subject and label those who disagree with them as closed-minded.

Hence why some call people like Illiad hypocrites. In fact, this is why most athiests are seen in as such. It is because they ARE hypocrites, enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with. I can see that some are trying to not be, but yet, they still fail.
Of course, I'm hardly perfect. Nobody on earth is.

Jenos Whatever, your posts irritate me more than any other particpant in these debates. You label all atheists as hypocrites 'enough of the time to really count and so many are hypocritical so often that it is the impression those who don't know any different are left with'. Well prove it. Where is the hypocrisy in the opinions I, or any other sceptic on here, has stated? Challenge me. Challenge us. Give me a chance to say one thing and do another. Please. Because my ammunition is your guidebook and i would LOVE to get into this debate with you.

Firstly, I said MOST. NOT ALL, MOST. If your going to lynch me, then go it right! Be a little less clumsy with the accusations next time.

As for the 'challenge', you obivously have build up walls to protect yourself from truth, so it wouldn't really matter what I were to say. You'd flat-out refuse to hear me (typical atheist mindset, from the examples I see here. You all seem quite the militant bunch of God-haters here).

Typical atheist mindset? Atheists are just people who don't believe god. I don't believe in god and that's it. Please do not use stereotypes.

(note to reader, read all of it)
Then don't judge us. Fair is fair, afterall. Most Atheists I've had the misfortune to meet, both off-line and on, are close-minded, hateful, immoral, anti-religion militants who seem to have an unspoken but oh so clear agenda to crush a man's faith by harassment and belittlement. And then they claim to be non-hypocritial when they say that they aren't doing whatall I just said. This is the impression I'm left with.

However, can at least you and I call for a cease-fire? And read this last part. I've had too many ignore my calls to end debate and I'm sick of it.

[Iliad]

Fine I will stop this debate.

[Bertros Bertros]

However, can at least you and I call for a cease-fire? And read this last part. I've had too many ignore my calls to end debate and I'm sick of it.

You can't always expect to have the last word just cause you want to...

EDIT: Booo Iliad - I was enjoying you two duking it out

[Jenos Ridan]

Jenos:
I quoted you in full. Didn't put any words in your mouth.

if you are going to accuse people of hypocrisy, back it up. Simple.

You accused me of saying all. I said most. That is the issue. Of course not ALL have that mindset, but enough to give me that impression.

[Jenos Ridan]

However, can at least you and I call for a cease-fire? And read this last part. I've had too many ignore my calls to end debate and I'm sick of it.

You can't always expect to have the last word just cause you want to...

EDIT: Booo Iliad - I was enjoying you two duking it out

I think most every one here is sick and tired of the endless debates. There has been repeated calls for a cease-fire, I'm just a new voice in the crowd.

I don't want the last word, but I do want a consencus here; 'Bible-thumpers' get a thread all to themselves and agree to leave you guys alone on your threads. And visa versa. On 'normal' threads, no religious talk. We all know were it goes. Deal?

[Jenos Ridan]

Firstly, I said MOST. NOT ALL, MOST. If your going to lynch me, then go it right! Be a little less clumsy with the accusations next time.

As for the 'challenge', you obivously have build up walls to protect yourself from truth, so it wouldn't really matter what I were to say. You'd flat-out refuse to hear me (typical atheist mindset, from the examples I see here. You all seem quite the militant bunch of God-haters here).

Built up mental walls? I can't think up anything more wrong. I am always open to new ideas and I think most Athiests are as well. The reason I became athiest is because no religion can seem to offer any proper answers. Its always "Its the will of God" and "God works in mysterious ways". Why can no-one give me one straight answer?

That and I cant believe in any god who would act so childishly.

And yet, I have found the opposite to be true sometimes. As for religion failing, that could be any number of reasons why, likely they preached some watered down 'devotional'-type worship style. You probably got bored. It happens, I know people who got bored and left because of bad sermons and lousy worship. The best answer I can give is this; God loves you and has already forgiven you. But now the ball is in your court. As for why the world is screwed up, look no further than the fall of man really. I guess somewhere you heard this old tirade, but it is the best I have at this hour.

To repeat myself yet again, I know how you feel. Same thoughts used to dwell here too. Again, the later hour. The only downside to my job.

[Anarchy Ninja]

Not to incite anything but then why don't leftists get one? I seem to remeber the marxist thread being invaded on the first page

[Bertros Bertros]

However, can at least you and I call for a cease-fire? And read this last part. I've had too many ignore my calls to end debate and I'm sick of it.

You can't always expect to have the last word just cause you want to...

EDIT: Booo Iliad - I was enjoying you two duking it out

I think most every one here is sick and tired of the endless debates. There has been repeated calls for a cease-fire, I'm just a new voice in the crowd.

I don't want the last word, but I do want a consencus here; 'Bible-thumpers' get a thread all to themselves and agree to leave you guys alone on your threads. And visa versa. On 'normal' threads, no religious talk. We all know were it goes. Deal?

I for one enjoy a good discussion and am fascinated particularly by religion. If you don't like it, don't get involved, but don't expect everyone else to.

[Jenos Ridan]

Not to incite anything but then why don't leftists get one? I seem to remeber the marxist thread being invaded on the first page

Ok then, rightys and leftys (Oh God, the inuendo!) both get threads, and a few crossovers. Time to elect leaders for both sides.

[Dancing Mustard]

Oh be quiet you fool. If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.
Jay starts these threads with an ardent desire to debate; we oblige him because we like debating too. That's what forums are about.
If you don't like the idea that people are critically discussing your beliefs, then you either need to toughen up, or stay out of these threads. We'll talk about whatever we please, however we please; I fail to see any point in just creating threads in which we can pat each other on the back in a self-congratulatory fashion whilst safe in the knowledge that only people who agree with us will respond.

In other words Jenos: "Shut up, grown ups are talking"

[Anarchy Ninja]

I don't think JR has a problem with debating, it just sometimes gets boring when you feel your hearing the same things over and over. I don't mind debating either, but it makes it impossible to discuss anything with like minded individuals if others are consitsently badgering you and saying say no your wrong your an idiot or somesuch nonsense

[Jenos Ridan]

Oh be quiet you fool. If you can't stand the heat then get out of the kitchen.
Jay starts these threads with an ardent desire to debate; we oblige him because we like debating too. That's what forums are about.
If you don't like the idea that people are critically discussing your beliefs, then you either need to toughen up, or stay out of these threads. We'll talk about whatever we please, however we please; I fail to see any point in just creating threads in which we can pat each other on the back in a self-congratulatory fashion whilst safe in the knowledge that only people who agree with us will respond.

In other words Jenos: "Shut up, grown ups are talking"

I'm hardly alone on this.

Why bother induging Jay? It occurs to me now that everyone is either on one side of the line or the other on any thread started by him. Neither is actually debating. Now, I enjoyed the Marxism threat, until it got stale. I see your point. But, we need to avoid stalemates in the future. I don't think anyone likes a stalemate.

[MeDeFe]

Except that there isn't one, jay was unable to defend his position. The only fault was showing an R-17 rated movie, not a movie which jay thinks is promoting sin.

[Jenos Ridan]

I don't think JR has a problem with debating, it just sometimes gets boring when you feel your hearing the same things over and over. I don't mind debating either, but it makes it impossible to discuss anything with like minded individuals if others are consitsently badgering you and saying say no your wrong your an idiot or somesuch nonsense

Funny, you can see my point but Prancing Mustard seems to be blind?
Anyway, where were we.....?

[Dancing Mustard]

Well not quite no.
1. You never actually made that point.
2. It isn't really valid. When you start threads promoting your opinion on a public forum; you can't really cry and throw the toys out of the pram when you are proved wrong in all of them.
3. It isn't just people shouting the same things in every thread; it just so happens that the same side runs out of logical arguments in each one, and resorts to book-quoting.






4. Here's a clue, both Jenos and Jay are always on that side.

[The1exile]

You know the only people I've ever seen who closeminded enough to seriously believe AIDS was contracted via homosexual activity were on video, and I've never had the misfortune to meet them.

Luns, I thought you were better than that.

[luns101]

Telling that what they do and might be genetic is "evil" is not tolerant. Hollywood isn't propagandizing homosexuality. There is nothing wrong about a movie that explores what it means to be gay! Saying that movie is propaganda is rather close-minded.

You're beyond help. I'm going to concentrate my discussion with Bertros Bertros. At least he is being rationale.

[luns101]

OK then, I am also relatively happy with the Friday the 13th movies as well. They are not directly promoting killing sprees. Jason Vorhees continually struggles with the inner demons he has had since he was left to drown at Camp Crystal Lake and the death of his mother. His biggest challenge is dealing with a society of promiscuous teenagers and bumbling law enforcement which try and suppress him from 'working out his anger' problems. In the end, maniacal serial killers are not shown in a positive light.

I don't know what got into me on that one, HC. Perhaps I need more fiber in my diet or something...

[Backglass]

Most Atheists I've had the misfortune to meet, both off-line and on, are close-minded, hateful, immoral, anti-religion militants who seem to have an unspoken but oh so clear agenda to crush a man's faith by harassment and belittlement.

WOW. You either have some serious hangups or hang out in ALL the wrong places.

Atheist = Don't believe in god(s). Thats all. No agenda, no immorality, no hate.

Please talk to a minister or counselor about your issues dude...seriously...it's not the atheist's doing the hating here.

[beezer]

Please add me to the list of "homophobes". You're right, luns - they are trying to set themselves up as the tolerant, open-minded ones and labeling us as the close-minded ones. Obviously, they don't like it when that notion is challenged.

[The1exile]

Please add me to the list of "homophobes". You're right, luns - they are trying to set themselves up as the tolerant, open-minded ones and labeling us as the close-minded ones. Obviously, they don't like it when that notion is challenged.

Let me ask then. What do you have against homosexuuals apart from that the Bible says so, in the OT, in the same places that it says don't eat meat and so on?

Do you even know any, personally?

[Guiscard]

Please add me to the list of "homophobes". You're right, luns - they are trying to set themselves up as the tolerant, open-minded ones and labeling us as the close-minded ones. Obviously, they don't like it when that notion is challenged.

If you don't like the fact that homosexuality is legal and acceptable in your country, ratified through laws passed by your directly elected representatives (America IS a democracy, right?)

then

move!

My argument doesn't even touch on the 'moral' issue. Your government says it is OK to be homosexual and therefore there should not be a problem with homosexuality being shown as, at the least, a lifestyle in publicly funded state schools.

Send your kids to church school if you object to the way your elected government does things.

[The1exile]

Send your kids to church school if you object to the way your elected government does things.

If by "church school", you mean faith schools, I'm not sure that'll work.

I go to a catholic school, but levels of homosexuality are far from those Luns, jay and Beezer would like.

[Guiscard]

Send your kids to church school if you object to the way your elected government does things.

If by "church school", you mean faith schools, I'm not sure that'll work.

I go to a catholic school, but levels of homosexuality are far from those Luns, jay and Beezer would like.

Oh yeh... I went to Catholic High School too, just cause it was nearer my house and a better school than the comp, but they're more free in their curriculum, more so in the US than the UK I believe.

[heavycola]

Please add me to the list of "homophobes". You're right, luns - they are trying to set themselves up as the tolerant, open-minded ones and labeling us as the close-minded ones. Obviously, they don't like it when that notion is challenged.

They don't like it up 'em? Based on a close viewing of Brokeback Mountain, i would have to argue...