Redskins change nickname to Football Team

[saxitoxin]

What amount of Native blood would be acceptable to you 'white man saxi' in order to call oneself native american?

Definitely not 1.2%.

What about 67%? Do you need to see her 'papers' saxi?

Does she have papers? Or just a fourth-hand story she once heard about how "a relative way back" is Crazy Horse? I'm going to guess the second one.

[mookiemcgee]

would my fiancee

Depends.

Is she "Native American" as in she holds citizenship in a tribe, speaks an indigenous language, practices an Animist or Totemic religion, participates in tribal ceremonies, votes in tribal elections, and was raised on sovereign tribal territory? Or is she "Native American" in the sense that she once heard a story of her ancestors on one side being Blackfeet and her ancestor on the other side being the King of Italy?

Do you want to see her papers heir saxi? She might be scared you will try to 'extinct' her too.

Do you have papers are do the alt-right folks just stick with tattoos nowadays?

[saxitoxin]

would my fiancee

Depends.

Is she "Native American" as in she holds citizenship in a tribe, speaks an indigenous language, practices an Animist or Totemic religion, participates in tribal ceremonies, votes in tribal elections, and was raised on sovereign tribal territory? Or is she "Native American" in the sense that she once heard a story of her ancestors on one side being Blackfeet and her ancestor on the other side being the King of Italy?

Do you want to see her papers heir saxi? She might be scared you will try to 'extinct' her too.

Does she have papers? Or just a fourth-hand story she once heard about how "a relative way back" is Crazy Horse? I'm going to guess the second one.

Do you have papers

Yes. It's called a passport and it costs $85.

[mookiemcgee]

This is a good look for you saxi. True colors for sure

[saxitoxin]

This is a good look for you saxi. True colors for sure

Okay. I'll interpret that to mean the fourth hand, word of mouth story about the great-great uncle being a powerful medicine man who was once in an orgy with Sitting Bull then (and the great-great grandfather on the other side who was once in line to be Duke of Pomerania; oh, yeah, and on St. Patrick's Day she's got a lot of Irish ancestors, too, she once heard about).

Meanwhile, she's ineligible to vote in tribal elections, she's never lived on a reservation, she doesn't speak any Native language, she doesn't practice any Animist or Totemic religion, and she's genetically a majority White (probably a bigger majority than she realizes). But she's proud to call herself Native American!

So, yeah, like I said, there are no Native Americans left. It's a complex tax shelter run by big casino magnates who are aping a culture that's been extinct for nearly 100 years.

[mookiemcgee]

This is a good look for you saxi. True colors for sure

Okay. I'll interpret that to mean the fourth hand, word of mouth story about the great-great uncle being a powerful medicine man who was once in an orgy with Sitting Bull then (and the great-great grandfather on the other side who was once in line to be Duke of Pomerania) .

Meanwhile, she's ineligible to vote in tribal elections, she's never lived on a reservation, she doesn't speak any Native language, she doesn't practice any Animist or Totemic religion, and she's genetically a majority White (probably a bigger majority than she realizes). But she's proud to call herself Native American!

So, yeah, like I said, there are no Native Americans left. It's a complex tax shelter run by big casino magnates who are aping a culture that's been extinct for nearly 100 years.

Her mom was born and lived on a res for the first 35 years of her life, she was born on the res and they moved when she was a child. What more personal details do you want about my fiancee and her family exactly? Are you going to send you ORION friends down to 'extinct her' so your argument doesnt die?

The mom has never applied for or held a US passport, doesn't want one. She has a Ca drivers license and she has docs from her Tribe stating her membership...but I'm really not about to ask her for copies of her 'papers' so some racist on CC can be proven wrong. You'll just have to take my words for it that I know some Native Americans and you know alot of skinheads ok!

[saxitoxin]

Her mom was born and lived on a res for the first 35 years of her life, she was born on the res and they moved when she was a child.

Fair enough. Edited.

Meanwhile, she's ineligible to vote in tribal elections, she's never lived on a reservation hasn't lived on a reservation in 30 years, she doesn't speak any Native language, she doesn't practice any Animist or Totemic religion, if someone asked her who John Jolly was she'd assume it was the inventor of the Jolly Rancher, and she's genetically a majority White (probably a bigger majority than she realizes). But she's proud to call herself Native American!

[2dimes]

I skimmed your link with the lawyer trying to protect the nooksak guys from banishment, might go back later.

I was aware of the practice of kicking people out. Seems like you are into it with your little rules for being First Nations here.

Is she "Native American" as in she holds citizenship in a tribe, speaks an indigenous language, practices an Animist or Totemic religion, participates in tribal ceremonies, votes in tribal elections, and was raised on sovereign tribal territory? Or is she "Native American" in the sense that she once heard a story of her ancestors on one side being Blackfeet and her ancestor on the other side being the King of Italy?

I certainly don't think anyone's genetic family changed just because some nuns beat their parents until they no longer spoke "The savage tongue." Some of those languages are lost. Portions of others are missing parts.

I think some are certainly descendant from people that may have joined a tribe. I don't think that is completely wrong.

I also believe your story people being voted in might still happen. Do you have examples of that?

[saxitoxin]

When Americans imagine Mohegan Elders ...



The reality of Mohegan Elders ...

Paramount Chief James Gesser
- Earns an upper six figure salary as CEO of Mohegan Gaming and Entertainment, Inc. protecting the sacred rituals of his people like roulette and blackjack
- Runs a Jersey Mike's franchise where he perpetuates the culinary arts of the Mohegan Nation like the Grilled Pastrami Reuben
- Speaks the ancient Mohegan tongue of English
- Studied shamanic ritual (AKA B.A. in Hotel Management from Southwest Louisiana State University)
- Carries forth the honored name of his forefathers, "Gesser"
His appearance, name, profession, and language mean he could be discriminated against by the White colonizer. It is good we are protecting this impoverished, oppressed tribal elder and his knowledge of the ancient culture and rituals of the Mohegans that he can pass his wisdom and respect for the ecology of Earth to future generations.

Museum Fremen

From the time of the God-Emperor onwards the cultural impact of the Fremen ebbed, thanks in no small part to the terraforming of Arrakis. By the time of the God Emperor's death, the Fremen were relegated to being no more than 'museum' pieces, their ancient and purposeful traditions diluted into honorary forms without meaning.

https://dune.fandom.com/wiki/Fremen

[mookiemcgee]

Oh wow, you found a tribal leader that doesn't look Indian... that must prove no Native Americans exist and all tribal leaders are white.

[saxitoxin]

Oh wow, you found a tribal leader that doesn't look Indian... that must prove no Native Americans exist and all tribal leaders are white.

Can you ask your fiancee to translate "I could do this all day" into her ancient, indigenous language? (Let us know if the translation comes back: "I could do this all day.") THX!!!

[mookiemcgee]

Oh wow, you found a tribal leader that doesn't look Indian... that must prove no Native Americans exist and all tribal leaders are white.

Can you ask your fiancee to translate "I could do this all day" into her traditional language?

573 federally recognized tribes... want to post a picture of every single one's leader? Cus otherwise you are just cherry picking. How's your german btw?

[saxitoxin]

Oh wow, you found a tribal leader that doesn't look Indian... that must prove no Native Americans exist and all tribal leaders are white.

Can you ask your fiancee to translate "I could do this all day" into her traditional language?

573 federally recognized tribes tax shelters for Caesars Entertainment and Harrah's

fixed

[mookiemcgee]

Oh wow, you found a tribal leader that doesn't look Indian... that must prove no Native Americans exist and all tribal leaders are white.

Can you ask your fiancee to translate "I could do this all day" into her traditional language?

573 federally recognized tribes tax shelters for Caesars Entertainment and Harrah's

fixed

You do seem a little fixated on 'purity of blood'. Where's that come from? Maybe you aren't german, how's you latin?

[saxitoxin]

Maybe you aren't german

I'm definitely not German.

Anyway, great news has just come in smoke signals emanating from the ancient Medicine Lodge of the thousand fires (AKA a press release from a Madison Ave PR firm)!

The coyote bears an omen of good fortune for the children of Atius-Tirawa (AKA new franchise fees on Harrah’s Northern California)!

When Eldorado Resorts’ $17.3bn merger with Caesars Entertainment closes next year, the Reno-based casino company will also take on the firm’s five tribal gaming management contracts across three states. Through its Harrah’s brand, Caesars is the largest commercial casino operator of tribal properties in the US and the company has long-standing management deals with casinos in California, Arizona and North Carolina.

Caesars’ newest Indian casino, the $168m Harrah’s Northern California in Amador County, opened its doors this April. Owned by the Buena Vista Rancheria Band of Me-Wuk Indians, the property features 950 slot machines, 20 tables games, three quick serve restaurants and a full-service restaurant.

https://www.casino-review.co/eldorado-casino-caesar/

[2dimes]

I get that joke. "That guy's not African/American, he's never even been to Africa." but.. How would someone's genetics change from speaking a particular language?

[mookiemcgee]

Maybe you aren't german

I'm definitely not German.

Sorry my mistake, you prefer Aryan don't you.

[saxitoxin]

Maybe you aren't german

I'm definitely not German.

Sorry my mistake, you prefer Aryan don't you.

Germany is a nation-state in central Europe. I mean, I've been there a couple times as a tourist but I'm not a German citizen, don't vote in German elections, have no residence in Germany, and have never worn tracht. (Though I do speak some German so I guess, in a way, I'm more German than your fiancee is Cherokee or whatever? So, since I'm zero-percent German ...)

[mookiemcgee]

Maybe you aren't german

I'm definitely not German.

Sorry my mistake, you prefer Aryan don't you.

Germany is a nation-state in central Europe. I mean, I've been there a couple times as a tourist but I'm not a German citizen, don't vote in German elections, have no residence in Germany, and have never worn tracht. (Though I do speak some German so I guess, in a way, I'm more German than your fiancee is Cherokee or whatever? So, since I'm zero-percent German ...)

Well CA was once all Native American land, and she was born here and still lives here so has been a resident her entire life. I guess right off that bat that makes her 100% more Native than you are German. It's true doesn't pray to the old Native gods, and doesn't speak the old Native languages, where as you seem culturally tied to Germany in the 1930s that you do have her on that one. The DNA tests proving her ancestry and the aforementioned tribal paperworks would seem to be the tie-breaker here, Native Americans still exist!

[mookiemcgee]

Maybe you aren't german

I'm definitely not German.

Sorry my mistake, you prefer Aryan Nation don't you.

Germany is a nation-state in central Europe.

Good point, fixed

[saxitoxin]

Maybe you aren't german

I'm definitely not German.

Sorry my mistake, you prefer Aryan don't you.

Germany is a nation-state in central Europe. I mean, I've been there a couple times as a tourist but I'm not a German citizen, don't vote in German elections, have no residence in Germany, and have never worn tracht. (Though I do speak some German so I guess, in a way, I'm more German than your fiancee is Cherokee or whatever? So, since I'm zero-percent German ...)

Well CA was once all Native American land

Great. Southern Italy was once all Etruscan land. Call me when Italy carves out Etruscan territory, arbitrarily declares some Italians as remnant members of the Etruscan civilization, and then sets-up a chain of tax free casinos and Quiznos franchises on it.

Anyway, it's fine if you want to perpetuate some make-believe you've invented so you can proudly tell your friends you're in an interracial relationship without actually having to deal with any of the attendant discrimination that comes with that. I don't judge. Just don't try to pass it off here that your girlfriend - who is at least 70% white, is ineligible to vote in tribal elections, doesn't speak a tribal language, doesn't live in a tribal community, doesn't participate in tribal rituals or ceremony, and knows jackshit about tribal history - is "running with the spirit of coyote" or whatever nonsensical gibberish you two picked-up from watching a Kevin Costner movie.

[mookiemcgee]

Maybe you aren't german

I'm definitely not German.

Sorry my mistake, you prefer Aryan don't you.

Germany is a nation-state in central Europe. I mean, I've been there a couple times as a tourist but I'm not a German citizen, don't vote in German elections, have no residence in Germany, and have never worn tracht. (Though I do speak some German so I guess, in a way, I'm more German than your fiancee is Cherokee or whatever? So, since I'm zero-percent German ...)

Well CA was once all Native American land

Great. Southern Italy was once all Etruscan land. Call me when Italy carves out Etruscan territory, arbitrarily declares some Italians as remnant members of the Etruscan civilization, and then sets-up a chain of tax free casinos and Quiznos franchises on it.

Uh the difference is USA did carve out land for Natives. Had the italians done the same, the etruscans could have as many Quiznos as they want!

Can you acknowledge that Native Americans and the state and federal US gov'ts made agreements? in some cases giving them some sovereignty and land?

you personally don't agree with what they are doing on their small amount land, even if it's covered in the agreements. So it's best to just say they don't exist and that it's all a tax scam. I get it, you hate them for their freedoms.

[saxitoxin]

Can you acknowledge that Native Americans and the state and federal US gov'ts made agreements? in some cases giving them some sovereignty and land?

Yes, that's established history. However, there are many agreements that have come into being in history and are no longer valid.

Those agreements were signed when Native American nations were operating as functioning nation-states. Since 1924, every Native American has been a U.S. citizen, there is no more Native American citizenship only tribal membership that can be freely given or revoked (and frequently is), and the persons claiming tribal membership today have almost no genetic relation to those who signed the agreements (and, in fact, they are more genetically related to the representatives of the U.S. and state governments that oppressed the actual Native Americans, before that culture went extinct).

A nation-state can't exist without any citizens. Membership is not a synonym for citizenship, otherwise the AAA would be a sovereign nation. The nation-states no longer exist. There are only shells, a legal fiction built on a cultural fiction that is funded by Caesar's and Harrah's as a complex tax shelter; an ingenious scheme by which multi-billionaire dollar corporations can avoid paying taxes without generating the mildest squeak of protest from progressives.

in some cases giving them some sovereignty and land?

They have never had sovereignty as the term is understood in law. "Sovereignty" is a word of art used by the so-called "Native Americans" (the 1% of the white population claiming to be connected to the extinct culture of aboriginal Americans).

Since 1831 they have been internal dependencies of the United States like the Isle of Mann is to the UK. They are, at most, autonomous. They are not sovereign. They do not have any of the elements of sovereignty: they do not engage in diplomatic relations with other sovereign states, they do not have a monopoly on political violence in their territory (federal law enforcement has an absolute right to enter tribal territory even if state police do not), and they do not enjoy any of the rights accorded to sovereign states under international law such as control of airspace or maritime EEZs. Indeed, with the exception of the Navajo and the Eastern Band of the Cherokee, none of them even have a significant enough population to viably operate as a sovereign state.

[jimboston]

I ended my post like that because to me that name is funny.

Walter Wetzel is a funny name wether is belongs to a Jewish Boy from Brooklyn or a Native America.
It’s funny sounding alliterative name... it sounds like it belongs in a comic book.

If you want to interpret my comment about that name as ugly... that’s on you.

You were pretty insensitive.

I’m insensitive because I found the name of a Native American chief to be humorous?

You need to thicken your blood.

This is seriously a joke right out of a Mel Brooks movie.

It’s so “comic-booky”... like Peter Parker, Lois Lane, Lex Luthor, J. Jonah Jameson, etc.

It’s funny. If you think it’s not funny you have no sense of humor.

Furthermore, I didn’t comment in anyway on his Native American heritage. I don’t care, and whether or not the logo was designed by an “actual Native American” or not is IMHO meaningless to the logo’s value today. Finally, he may have Native American blood, whatever that means... but he also must’ve had significant German or Jewish German blood. It’s also kinda funny that a guy with some German.Jewish roots winds up running an Native American Tribe.

If you don’t think that’s funny you need to thicken your skin a bit. That’s something out of a Mel Brooks movie.

Um. Why does it not matter whether or not a claimed racist logo was designed by a person of the same heritage of the logo and didn't find it racist?

I said who designed the logo was meaningless. One person may have profited from designing a logo 50 years ago. That doesn’t mean it’s important in the debate today whether or not the logo has value. Another way of phrasing it... one person’s opinion is not important (even if he’s from said group) especially since he presumably [if he designed the logo] got paid to design it or to act as a consultant on the design.

I DID NOT SAY that the sum total opinion of Native Americans was unimportant in the debate.

I think Native Americans and the owners of the franchise are the only people whose opinions should matter. IMHO if a majority of Native Americans are unoffended and/or take some pride in the current logo... then the rest of us should all not care. (Obviously the owners of the franchise can/should also be able to do whatever the f*** they want too...)

As a person of Irish American Heritage I am not ‘offended’ by the Fighting Irish logo or the Boston Celtics logo. Quite the contrary, in my youth I took some sense of pride in these logos and thought the represented the ‘fighting spirit’ of the Irish or some such bullshit.

Perhaps Native Americans feel the same way about some of these logos. I don’t know. I do know, that if Native Americans are cool with the Redskins logo then liberal know-it-all’s should just shut up.

BTW... why does no one complain about the Syracuse Orangemen? This university’s team name is insensitive to Irish Catholics and should be changed immediately. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orangemen

[jimboston]

Maybe a nun assigned the name Walter Wetzel when he was taken away from his family and forced into a residential school.

Did you see a picture of the guy?

Oh, sorry Jameson O'Boston, I thought he might have been born in the mid 20th century when some (100% by Saxi maths) of the genetics of the Siksikaitsitapi might be of mixed heritage.

I don't know, maybe as a child Hutterites dumped him at the reserve, or he wandered in by himself.

Maybe he got grief from the locals for looking too much like a whitey. It's all good, feel free to judge him without walking a mile in his moccasins, but you do sound a little bit like the Klansman in Porky's who said, "That boy just doesn't look American. Know what I mean?"

Boy has a name like a comic book character and looks like that.

I couldn’t make this shit up.

Ya’ll need to get some thick skin.

Are we no longer allowed to reference how people look or use generalities in jokes in any way?

This world just got 15% less fun.