Should an airline ticket be priced on your income?

[HitRed]

Capitalism strives to reduce waste. Waste kills profit. It also means opting out and not taking part is almost impossible and quickly punished. Even munks have to have some form of income. As I look out a the amazing number of people reintering the job marked I wonder if it was by choice or because of the Capitalist system.

[Symmetry]

Capitalism strives to reduce waste. Waste kills profit. It also means opting out and not taking part is almost impossible and quickly punished. Even munks have to have some form of income. As I look out a the amazing number of people reintering the job marked I wonder if it was by choice or because of the Capitalist system.

Much of what you posted can be said of Communism. A lot of the arguments between them seem very artificial.

[HitRed]

I've been to Russia. What I thought was the appetizer (salid plate of white rice with two peperoies on top and a slice of bread) turned out to be the entire meal. I'd choose capitalism.

[Symmetry]

I've been to Russia. What I thought was the appetizer (salid plate of white rice with two peperoies on top and a slice of bread) turned out to be the entire meal. I'd choose capitalism.

Aye, well us Brits aren't exactly famous for our cuisine...

[mrswdk]

I am saying corruption always happens in communist society because there is a lack of incentive to work harder, since everyone would get to ride in an airplane free... In theory.

The majority of people in any economy are not public officials with the capacity to engage in rent-seeking behaviour. Whether or not public officials are corrupt does not really relate to the question of how to motivate the wider populace to engage in productive enterprise.

Corruption is getting bad enough in the free world I am getting worried.

Ah, and now you are acknowledging that corruption and rent-seeking are not unique to any one particular economic system anyway. I guess we can drop the discussion about corruption then.

*drops and returns to the topic at hand*

When talking about how to incentivise productive enterprise I think you are getting distracted by the false dichotomy of 'capitalism vs socialism'. Those are ideologies, and in practice there is no economy in the world that is 'socialist' or 'capitalist'. All economies are a blend of systems that could be described as 'capitalist' and systems that could be described as 'socialist'.

Working out how to create and manage a functioning and successful society requires members of that society to first define what a functioning and successful society looks like, from the perspective of all its members, then work out how best to deliver that society. Some governments find it too difficult to do that, so instead what they do is pretend that all nations have a binary choice between one of two or three socio-economic systems: either the good one, that your current government is administering, or the bad one/s that other governments want to impose on you and that will destroy your savings and force you to eat nothing but bread and dress in old potato sacks for the rest of your life. As a narrative that's handy for the government's legitimacy, because then you become reliant on them to defend you from the imaginary threat, but it does nothing to help deliver the domestic society that would actually make your life better.

[Symmetry]

Mrsdwk- are you really unwilling to actually discuss the incident where you posted kiddie-fiddler images on CC? Until you address your little issue, you're discussing ethics, but hoping that people don't remember your past.

[2dimes]

In the former CCCP theft wasn't only done by government officials. Regular citizens would sometimes "lose" a box of something if they could. They were lacking so when they had an opportunity..

"Boris gave you toilet paper, where did he get extra?"
"Shhhh."

Socialist health care worked fairly well here for way over half a century. It required people to be somewhat honest to function like it did.

There are quite a bit of private services available now.

In several ways they start as an improvement since they usually try to reduce costs and provide better services. They turn out at very least to be slightly more expensive because the owner needs to see a profit on their investment or they will shut down and open some other venture. I'm not even going to say that is wrong, why buy equipment to provide services unless you will get paid?

The extra cost for those services is often still covered by public health care. That means they need to collect more taxes.

Once it increases enough, I don't know where the extra tax money will come from. The economy is down, there are less jobs here. Less income coupled with more tax. Businesses are closing so that's less tax coming in...

If tax money in can't cover the costs out... Eventually they couldn't print large enough numbers on the Zimbabwe dollar.. Hopefully it all works out and Canada some how can remain a great place to watch hockey and shovel snow off sidewalks, but only time will tell.

[Symmetry]

Long story short, you live in Canada and the healthcare system is good?

[mrswdk]

In the former CCCP theft wasn't only done by government officials. Regular citizens would sometimes "lose" a box of something if they could. They were lacking so when they had an opportunity..

Why are we talking about theft now?

In America today there are more rapes per 10,000 population than there were in the USSR.

[KoolBak]

Why are we talking about rape now? The UK, Germany and France are up in the top ten as well. GO EUROPE!

Back to thread.

[Dukasaur]

I am saying corruption always happens in communist society because there is a lack of incentive to work harder, since everyone would get to ride in an airplane free... In theory.

The majority of people in any economy are not public officials with the capacity to engage in rent-seeking behaviour. Whether or not public officials are corrupt does not really relate to the question of how to motivate the wider populace to engage in productive enterprise.

Corruption is getting bad enough in the free world I am getting worried.

Ah, and now you are acknowledging that corruption and rent-seeking are not unique to any one particular economic system anyway. I guess we can drop the discussion about corruption then.

*drops and returns to the topic at hand*

When talking about how to incentivise productive enterprise I think you are getting distracted by the false dichotomy of 'capitalism vs socialism'. Those are ideologies, and in practice there is no economy in the world that is 'socialist' or 'capitalist'. All economies are a blend of systems that could be described as 'capitalist' and systems that could be described as 'socialist'.

Working out how to create and manage a functioning and successful society requires members of that society to first define what a functioning and successful society looks like, from the perspective of all its members, then work out how best to deliver that society. Some governments find it too difficult to do that, so instead what they do is pretend that all nations have a binary choice between one of two or three socio-economic systems: either the good one, that your current government is administering, or the bad one/s that other governments want to impose on you and that will destroy your savings and force you to eat nothing but bread and dress in old potato sacks for the rest of your life. As a narrative that's handy for the government's legitimacy, because then you become reliant on them to defend you from the imaginary threat, but it does nothing to help deliver the domestic society that would actually make your life better.

+1

Well said.

[Dukasaur]

Yupper, the gov can do ur taxes without you.

Services based on income?

The nation would crumble in record time.

Not really. It is the basic model of how primitive human societies work. Everyone gets fed to the best of the tribe's ability. Small children and feeble old people are not expected to contribute as much as adults in the prime of their life. It is understood that the strongest hunter is more likely to score a kill than the weakest hunter. It doesn't mean the weak hunter is locked out and forced to starve.

Now, we have come a long way from primitive societies, and admittedly the profit motive has been a big part of that. Profits have driven innovation in new ways of making things as well as in completely new things to make. Nobody can deny that the free market is a powerful engine driving the creation of a vast pile of wealth.

And yet, when we get to a stage where the vast pile of wealth is accumulating in the courtyards of a tiny minority while other members of the tribe are forever on the outside looking in, one does start to ask oneself if it has gone too far.

Until 1980, we were at least able to tell ourselves that even if the rich continue to get richer, the poor are getting better off too. But since 1980, the trend has reversed. The economy zooms into the stratospheres, there are more fabulous fortunes than ever before, and yet the trickle down to the working man has stopped. By every metric the average working man is worse off now than he was in 1980. He works longer hours, is deeper in debt, is less likely to ever pay off his mortgage, is less likely to be able to afford a foreign vacation, is less likely to be able to send his kids to university, and so on and so forth. It's not surprising that he starts to ask himself why he is supporting a system which brags about its incredible increases in productivity when none of the profits ever come to his doorstep.

[Bernie Sanders]

When the top 3 Billionaires have more assets than the bottom 50% of Americans, we can truly say the working class lost the class warfare.

[armati]

mrswdk
"Working out how to create and manage a functioning and successful society requires members of that society to first define what a functioning and successful society looks like"

You might like The Republic by Plato.

[armati]

Duk, yes really.
Charged by income is the cart before the horse.
Basic, a person is in business for profit, no profit no business, no jobs, free dont cut it for a business person.

[armati]

Postby Symmetry on Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:15 am

Long story short, you live in Canada and the healthcare system is good?

I live in Canada and yes, the healthcare is excellent compared to most other counties and improving.

[Bernie Sanders]

Duk, yes really.
Charged by income is the cart before the horse.
Basic, a person is in business for profit, no profit no business, no jobs, free dont cut it for a business person.

Working class and/or middle class create jobs with spending.

Businesses compete for that spending. No spending by the working class causes a loss of jobs.

Businesses don't live and die by taxes....they live or die due to competitive bidding for those customers.

[2dimes]

I feel like duke's intentions are good.

I'm guessing mrswdk has a narrow view of the China he experienced. It's not wrong but I dare him to go out to some farming area and live without plumbing and electricity, bathing in a river for a year.

When the top 3 Billionaires have more assets than the bottom 50% of Americans, we can truly say the working class lost the class warfare.

It never bothers me that there are some that have way more than most. What's the point of jealously? I actually find it fun and interesting to see stories and pictures of things like The DuPont mansion.

Sure I'd like infinite funds to buy everything I see but if I am honest, I have more than I need.

I have seen a young lady in real life get turned down, trying to get something to eat in a Burger King with a toddler in a stroller.

What I gathered was there was some program where she was on a list and they could get a certain amount of food credits. Seems she already had hers for the week. I was on vacation over eating every day and I didn't like seeing her and a young child go hungry, we bought her some lunch. I doubt It changed much, I can't fix everything and in the big picture she is probably still broke years after.

I don't believe she should get free airfare but she certainly deserved a cheeseburger.

[KoolBak]

Yo Dimey....my beer fridge is empty How bout you hook a feller up with some LaBatts and Kokanee?

[2dimes]

I'll grab a flat of each. Come pick them up.

[armati]

'Working class and/or middle class create jobs with spending'

Yes Bernie, thats true. and so is "charged by income will kill a society"

[2dimes]

Like being in Edmonton is not enough punishment.

$17.49 for a six pack?

http://www.liquordirect.ca/Kokanee-Glac ... P7642.aspx

Maybe I can't afford to buy two flats of beer.

[mrswdk]

I feel like duke's intentions are good.

I'm guessing mrswdk has a narrow view of the China he experienced. It's not wrong but I dare him to go out to some farming area and live without plumbing and electricity, bathing in a river for a year.

Ironic that you are calling my experience of China narrow, when the image of China that you just painted above appears to be derived from a 1970s Cold War propaganda poster.

As it happens I have been to both of the two poorest provinces in China (Gansu and Guizhou). I did not see anybody riding horse and carts to market to trade their children for chickens, although I did see deprivation. China is still a developing economy.

I have no idea why you brought China up. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to the point you were trying to make.

[2dimes]

Your experiences there were positive and that's valid but I suspect there is poverty in China.

Maybe that's complicated or even wrong.

[armati]

If I only had 6 months to live I would move to Edmonton.
It would seem so much longer that way.