Double space for the win!

[mrswdk]

I don't see why taking notes on a laptop/phone would be any more or less distracting than using pen and paper. The only difference for me is that I can take way more notes if I'm typing than if I use a pen.

tbh I rarely took notes at uni so I just used a pen and paper, but at work it's almost always my laptop.

[thegreekdog]

I've always and continue to take notes with pen and paper. I do this primarily for memorization purposes. When I was in school my study method was: (1) take written notes; (2) organize and transfer written notes to Word; (3) print the Word document; (4) study; (5) profit.

I will note, for whatever it's worth, that people in law school took notes on laptops and, more often that not, were playing a videogame rather than taking notes. Perhaps that's the high tech version of doodling.

[Symmetry]

I've always and continue to take notes with pen and paper. I do this primarily for memorization purposes. When I was in school my study method was: (1) take written notes; (2) organize and transfer written notes to Word; (3) print the Word document; (4) study; (5) profit.

I will note, for whatever it's worth, that people in law school took notes on laptops and, more often that not, were playing a videogame rather than taking notes. Perhaps that's the high tech version of doodling.

Pen and paper note taking is my preferred method too. It's great for a bunch of reasons- you absorb the info better, keeps up your handwriting skills, encourages organisation when you type up the notes, and gives you a hard back-up. Plus you're right to point out that computers can be a distraction whether that's games, looking at other stuff on the internet, or chatting.

One habit that I only ever got partially in to is labelling my handwritten notes. A few of my friends use notebooks, and they number each page, and put a contents page at the front, and even an index at the back.

[mrswdk]

You don't need to keep up your handwriting skills if you never need to write by hand.

[Symmetry]

You don't need to keep up your handwriting skills if you never need to write by hand.

It's always a useful skill to have- one of the charities I work for needs handwritten notes when you talk one on one with service users. Being able to write quickly and accurately has been pretty useful.

It's a good skill to maintain.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

There was a similar discussion before, but I couldn't take notes and listen to a lecture at the same time. Like the classic walk and chew bubblegum thing or whatever it is. If I'm writing something down, whatever they were saying at that times just whistles on through the empty space in my head. There's no way I could do notes on a computer and retain any appreciable amount of information. Maybe if it was recorded and I could repeat segments at will.

I always preferred books for that reason.

[Symmetry]

There was a similar discussion before, but I couldn't take notes and listen to a lecture at the same time. Like the classic walk and chew bubblegum thing or whatever it is. If I'm writing something down, whatever they were saying at that times just whistles on through the empty space in my head. There's no way I could do notes on a computer and retain any appreciable amount of information. Maybe if it was recorded and I could repeat segments at will.

I always preferred books for that reason.

This is kind of why I admire people who can write short-hand. I've only picked up maybe 3 or 4 shorthand methods- I use a long line for "the", for example.

[mrswdk]

You don't need to keep up your handwriting skills if you never need to write by hand.

It's always a useful skill to have- one of the charities I work for needs handwritten notes when you talk one on one with service users.

I know you said charity, but on a side note it is ridiculous just how long paper-based patient records have managed to survive within the NHS. Go to hospital: "oh we don't have access to your GP's notes. Yes I know you already told them your whole history, but now you're going to have to tell me too". It's tragic. Electronic records would make everything so much more efficient.

Once they get hold of some proper funding they will switch to electronic records in a heartbeat. Same goes for your charity.

[Symmetry]

You don't need to keep up your handwriting skills if you never need to write by hand.

It's always a useful skill to have- one of the charities I work for needs handwritten notes when you talk one on one with service users.

I know you said charity, but on a side note it is ridiculous just how long paper-based patient records have managed to survive within the NHS. Go to hospital: "oh we don't have access to your GP's notes. Yes I know you already told them your whole history, but now you're going to have to tell me too". It's tragic. Electronic records would make everything so much more efficient.

Once they get hold of some proper funding they will switch to electronic records in a heartbeat. Same goes for your charity.

I hope not entirely- not long ago the entire NHS was effectively held hostage by ransomware that locked out access to electronic notes. I'm not opposed to electronic records, but as a complete replacement they are flawed.

[mrswdk]

Although if they're electronic then the patient could hold their own copy as well (cloud, computer, on an app, wherever).

WannaCry only worked on people with hella out of date and non-patched versions of Windows. If a) NHSE would've just stumped up a bit of money for a newer version of Windows and b) bozos at hospitals actually updated security patches, WannaCry would've have affected the NHS at all.

[Symmetry]

Although if they're electronic then the patient could hold their own copy as well (cloud, computer, on an app, wherever).

WannaCry only worked on people with hella out of date and non-patched versions of Windows. If a) NHSE would've just stumped up a bit of money for a newer version of Windows and b) bozos at hospitals actually updated security patches, WannaCry would've have affected the NHS at all.

And yet it did work, and not just on the NHS, but on systems in a lot of other countries too. Blaming the victims of the attack can only ever go so far.

A solely electronic record is vulnerable.

[mrswdk]

I'm just saying, WannaCry was pretty easily avoidable. If you want to ride a bike but are worried about head injuries what do you do - put on a helmet, or just keep walking to work?

A paper record is also vulnerable. What if it gets lost? At least electronic ones can be backed up, and shared between services more easily.

Solutions brah, not problems.

[Symmetry]

I'm just saying, WannaCry was pretty easily avoidable. If you want to ride a bike but are worried about head injuries what do you do - put on a helmet, or just keep walking to work?

A paper record is also vulnerable. What if it gets lost? At least electronic ones can be backed up, and shared between services more easily.

Solutions brah, not problems.

But you are advocating a solely electronic solution as a replacement to paper, whereas I advocate using both paper and electronic notes.

[mrswdk]

If you get clinicians to take notes on their own paper record, and then also upload those notes to a single electronic record, that'll make every care interaction take longer - and clinicians (esp. GPs) are already pretty pushed for time during consultations as it is.

If the only reason you're advocating keeping paper copies is a safeguard in case something happens to the electronic copies, you could print off the single electronic record at regular intervals. Then you'd have a paper backup.

[Symmetry]

If you get clinicians to take notes on their own paper record, and then also upload those notes to a single electronic record, that'll make every care interaction take longer - and clinicians (esp. GPs) are already pretty pushed for time during consultations as it is.

If the only reason you're advocating keeping paper copies is a safeguard in case something happens to the electronic copies, you could print off the single electronic record at regular intervals. Then you'd have a paper backup.

I was advocating several reasons for handwriting notes as a skill, to be fair, and not only in your NHS context. Even within an NHS context, that would be an immense task of bureaucracy though- it would require a massive investment in infrastructure and compliance. As we've already established, that level of compliance is idealistic, but not all that practicable under WannaCry style attacks.

So, to return to our original point of disagreement, it really is a useful skill to be able to maintain an ability to write by hand.

[mrswdk]

That is true. Improving services takes a lot of work, so we probably shouldn't bother. Doctors should also be encouraged to maintain their skills in strapping struggling patients to operating tables and giving them pieces of wood to bite on while their leg is sawn off.

[Symmetry]

That is true. Improving services takes a lot of work, so we probably shouldn't bother. Doctors should also be encouraged to maintain their skills in strapping struggling patients to operating tables and giving them pieces of wood to bite on while their leg is sawn off.

Jeez- bit of an extreme response, no? Using a pen to take some notes isn't saw-doctory. How long has it been since you wrote something down, pen to paper?

Are you upset about this because you feel it's a skill you've lost?

[DoomYoshi]

Use the private health system.

[Dukasaur]

Paper notes can be stuck on the wall so you can see all of them at a glance.

Not so with a computer screen. Although you can open multiple notes in different windows and overlap them, you will forever be clicking on the one behind to see what is buried.

[mrswdk]

@DY I do. I don't think I need to go into too much detail as to why given the length at which saxi has already waxed lyrical on here about all the things wrong with the NHS.

[mrswdk]

Paper notes can be stuck on the wall so you can see all of them at a glance.

Not so with a computer screen. Although you can open multiple notes in different windows and overlap them, you will forever be clicking on the one behind to see what is buried.

lol. Which is most effort: tilting your head to look at different notes or pressing Alt+Tab to switch between electronic documents? See the debate hosted live by Rebel Wilson, only at Lazy Fest 2018.

[2dimes]

Important medical hystory should be tattooed right on an ass cheek. Handy permanent and right on scene when you need it.

Whenever I see a hot chick unconscious, I check for it incase she thinks like me. Boy if I had a nickel for every time someone asks, "Hey what are you doing to that lady?"

[DoomYoshi]

Important medical hystory should be tattooed right on an ass cheek. Handy permanent and right on scene when you need it.

Whenever I see a hot chick unconscious, I check for it incase she thinks like me. Boy if I had a nickel for every time someone asks, "Hey what are you doing to that lady?"

I just read an article about tattoos causing surgery mishaps.

[2dimes]

I just read an article about tattoos causing surgery mishaps.

Ass cheek surgery is super rare.

[nietzsche]

technology will advance to the point we can create digital notes with electrical impulses from the brain. and then we can easily print them out in convenient sizes so we can see them and use our spatial oriented intelligence.

meanwhile stop being an idiot mrs wdk (you need to stop watching your phone every 3 minutes for that).