Trump's Impeachment (Official Thread)

[TA1LGUNN3R]

You can't really be ok with a guy who won't say what kind of hold other countries have over him.

Scotty obviously has a cosmopolitan perspective.

You seem to be infected with hysterical 1950s McCarthyist fantasies of a fifth column of "evil foreigners."

I was thinking of the more recent reports about DeutscheBank.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/16/deutsche-bank-examined-trump-account-for-russia-links

Trump and his businesses have a long history with the German bank, which this month posted its latest net loss, of €1.4bn. It has been the only financial institution willing to lend Trump significant sums. In the 1990s other Wall Street banks, which had previously extended him credit, turned off the tap after Trump’s businesses declared bankruptcy four times.

In November 2008 the German bank took the unusual step of suing Trump after he failed to repay $40m of a $640m real estate loan. Trump countersued. The tycoon argued that Deutsche had contributed to the global recession, which had depressed property prices. He demanded $3bn in damages.

Deutsche’s astonished lawyers described Trump’s lawsuit as frivolous and demanded immediate payment. The two parties settled in 2010.

The bank then quietly re-established its relationship with Trump via Deutsche’s private bank. The private wealth division deals with ultra high-net worth individuals, typically with assets in excess of $50m.

A person familiar with the matter said the relationship resumed because Deutsche Bank hired a group of private wealth bankers including Rosemary Vrablic, who had previously worked at Citigroup and Bank of America and was Trump’s personal banker. Vrablic began working for Deutsche in 2006.

When he was questioned about his bona fides on Wall Street by the New York Times, Trump referred to Vrablic as the “boss” of Deutsche Bank, although she is not the group’s chief executive. A glowing profile of the banker appeared in Kushner’s New York Observer.

Sources in the banking world have expressed astonishment that Deutsche would continue lending to Trump in the wake of his $3bn 2008 lawsuit. Asked whether this was normal practice, one former Deutsche Bank employee, who worked for the bank in New York, said: “Are you kidding me?”

Another former CEO of a rival investment bank, speaking on condition of anonymity, said: “The idea that a bank would walk away from an enforcement lawsuit on a defaulted loan with a litigious borrower because they hired a banking team is preposterous.”

In January a US regulator, the New York Department of Financial Services, fined Deutsche Bank $425m for laundering around $10bn of Russian money. The UK’s Financial Conduct Authority imposed a £163m fine, its largest ever.

The US Department of Justice is still investigating the Russian scheme. In December Deutsche agreed to pay the department $7.2bn. The fine related to the mis-selling of residential mortgage-backed securities and other activities during 2005-7. The US originally asked Deutsche to pay $14bn.

Fascinating stuff

Former employee? Like, was he the janitor who got fired after he showed up late?

-TG

[Symmetry]

You can't really be ok with a guy who won't say what kind of hold other countries have over him.

Scotty obviously has a cosmopolitan perspective.

You seem to be infected with hysterical 1950s McCarthyist fantasies of a fifth column of "evil foreigners."

I was thinking of the more recent reports about DeutscheBank.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/feb/16/deutsche-bank-examined-trump-account-for-russia-links

Trump and his businesses have a long history with the German bank, which this month posted its latest net loss, of €1.4bn. It has been the only financial institution willing to lend Trump significant sums. In the 1990s other Wall Street banks, which had previously extended him credit, turned off the tap after Trump’s businesses declared bankruptcy four times.

In November 2008 the German bank took the unusual step of suing Trump after he failed to repay $40m of a $640m real estate loan. Trump countersued. The tycoon argued that Deutsche had contributed to the global recession, which had depressed property prices. He demanded $3bn in damages.

Deutsche’s astonished lawyers described Trump’s lawsuit as frivolous and demanded immediate payment. The two parties settled in 2010.

The bank then quietly re-established its relationship with Trump via Deutsche’s private bank. The private wealth division deals with ultra high-net worth individuals, typically with assets in excess of $50m.

A person familiar with the matter said the relationship resumed because Deutsche Bank hired a group of private wealth bankers including Rosemary Vrablic, who had previously worked at Citigroup and Bank of America and was Trump’s personal banker. Vrablic began working for Deutsche in 2006.

When he was questioned about his bona fides on Wall Street by the New York Times, Trump referred to Vrablic as the “boss” of Deutsche Bank, although she is not the group’s chief executive. A glowing profile of the banker appeared in Kushner’s New York Observer.

Sources in the banking world have expressed astonishment that Deutsche would continue lending to Trump in the wake of his $3bn 2008 lawsuit. Asked whether this was normal practice, one former Deutsche Bank employee, who worked for the bank in New York, said: “Are you kidding me?”

Another former CEO of a rival investment bank, speaking on condition of anonymity, said: “The idea that a bank would walk away from an enforcement lawsuit on a defaulted loan with a litigious borrower because they hired a banking team is preposterous.”

In January a US regulator, the New York Department of Financial Services, fined Deutsche Bank $425m for laundering around $10bn of Russian money. The UK’s Financial Conduct Authority imposed a £163m fine, its largest ever.

The US Department of Justice is still investigating the Russian scheme. In December Deutsche agreed to pay the department $7.2bn. The fine related to the mis-selling of residential mortgage-backed securities and other activities during 2005-7. The US originally asked Deutsche to pay $14bn.

Fascinating stuff

Former employee? Like, was he the janitor who got fired after he showed up late?

-TG

Did you expect them to name their confidential sources?

[saxitoxin]

Obama's attempts to influence the 2012 French presidential election have today been revealed by Wikileaks -

Press Release (English)
16 February, 2017
CIA espionage orders for the last French presidential election
All major French political parties were targeted for infiltration by the CIA's human ("HUMINT") and electronic ("SIGINT") spies in the seven months leading up to France's 2012 presidential election. The revelations are contained within three CIA tasking orders published today by WikiLeaks as context for its forth coming CIA Vault 7 series. Named specifically as targets are the French Socialist Party (PS), the National Front (FN) and Union for a Popular Movement (UMP) together with current President Francois Hollande, then President Nicolas Sarkozy, current round one presidential front runner Marine Le Pen, and former presidential candidates Martine Aubry and Dominique Strauss-Khan.

https://wikileaks.org/cia-france-electi ... english%29

So it seems the only difference between our side and old order is that our side is successful when it does stuff like this.

[Symmetry]

Wikileaks are part of the problem, but apart from that. welcome back Saxi.

[saxitoxin]

Great point by Assange -



If the intelligence community continues its dirty tricks, Trump should declare a state of emergency, dissolve the CIA and NSA, and create new agencies from scratch. Time to drop the 82nd Airborne on Langley, weapons cocked and ready to rock.

[Symmetry]

Great point by Assange -



If the intelligence community continues its dirty tricks, Trump should declare a state of emergency, dissolve the CIA and NSA, and create new agencies from scratch. Time to drop the 82nd Airborne on Langley, weapons cocked and ready to rock.

It's an argument I kind of find interesting. It's pretty much the Russian model of a mafia state projected on to the US though. It just doesn't make much sense.

[betiko]

I want to see the world torn down to its foundations and then rebuilt in a certain way and Russia figures prominently in this reorganization program. None of these stories matter to me.

You re kind of telling this on a joke tone, but that s actually what you re really hoping for along with mrswdk and the other jackasses of your kind proliferating on the OT forum. You re all just a bunch of bored trolls wanting to see some interesting headlines on the news. You guys don't like the world you re living in, and you want to see it burn down, not really caring if what would come out of it.

[Symmetry]

I want to see the world torn down to its foundations and then rebuilt in a certain way and Russia figures prominently in this reorganization program. None of these stories matter to me.

You re kind of telling this on a joke tone, but that s actually what you re really hoping for along with mrswdk and the other jackasses of your kind proliferating on the OT forum. You re all just a bunch of bored trolls wanting to see some interesting headlines on the news. You guys don't like the world you re living in, and you want to see it burn down, not really caring if what would come out of it.

mrsdwk only wants to be a part of something, like all expats
saxi wants people to think that he doesn't want to be a part of something

That's the difference.

[saxitoxin]

I want to see the world torn down to its foundations and then rebuilt in a certain way and Russia figures prominently in this reorganization program. None of these stories matter to me.

You re kind of telling this on a joke tone, but that s actually what you re really hoping for along with mrswdk and the other jackasses of your kind proliferating on the OT forum. You re all just a bunch of bored trolls wanting to see some interesting headlines on the news. You guys don't like the world you re living in, and you want to see it burn down, not really caring if what would come out of it.

Not sure why you're surprised. I've been perfectly consistent in my support of Putin, Assad, Qaddafi, and other leaders whom the West has said can't exist in this world. The rational solution, when you're told the current world will not tolerate your perspective, is to blow it up and create a new world from scratch. And that's what we're doing. To quote patches -



Obviously it would be easier to have a world of diverse perspectives but the West wasn't willing to live that way. You wanted all or nothing. And so now you have nothing.

[mrswdk]

I was thinking that after inflicting chaos on numerous other countries by trying to enforce US/UK-style modes of government on them, it's pretty entertaining to see the US and UK ripping themselves apart as the result of applying US/UK-style modes of government to themselves.

[thegreekdog]

can you begin to imagine the apoplexy of the mouth breathing cretins that voted for this guy if the shoe was on the other foot?

the truly amazing part of all this for me, as an outsider, is the complete inability that some people have to simply admit that they were wrong.

Um... far be it from me to whatever, but it seems like there is a lot of hypocrisy on Team Blue right now, no?

[nietzsche]

let's see how long does this popular argument last: that liberals are just being hypocrites and nothing's wrong with Trump being president.


it's like the accepted go to argument right now, everywhere you see support from trump. i did not follow the campaign and follow this only some days, but i've seen many of these arguments. Like, "of course he's not a misogynist, that's the way men talk", "he's not saying that because he plans to do it, these are only campaign promises, everybody knows that", "of course he's not related to russia, that's just what hillary wants you to believe" and much more others.

you might get tired of watching news hosts and people in the street throwing their arms in the air every day, but don't fool yourself. that's not why you continue to find arguments pro trump.

[betiko]

let's see how long does this popular argument last: that liberals are just being hypocrites and nothing's wrong with Trump being president.


it's like the accepted go to argument right now, everywhere you see support from trump. i did not follow the campaign and follow this only some days, but i've seen many of these arguments. Like, "of course he's not a misogynist, that's the way men talk", "he's not saying that because he plans to do it, these are only campaign promises, everybody knows that", "of course he's not related to russia, that's just what hillary wants you to believe" and much more others.

you might get tired of watching news hosts and people in the street throwing their arms in the air every day, but don't fool yourself. that's not why you continue to find arguments pro trump.

This and mostly his saucage looking fingers

[TA1LGUNN3R]

let's see how long does this popular argument last: that liberals are just being hypocrites and nothing's wrong with Trump being president.


it's like the accepted go to argument right now, everywhere you see support from trump. i did not follow the campaign and follow this only some days, but i've seen many of these arguments. Like, "of course he's not a misogynist, that's the way men talk", "he's not saying that because he plans to do it, these are only campaign promises, everybody knows that", "of course he's not related to russia, that's just what hillary wants you to believe" and much more others.

you might get tired of watching news hosts and people in the street throwing their arms in the air every day, but don't fool yourself. that's not why you continue to find arguments pro trump.

This and mostly his saucage looking fingers

Trump is a clown, but the argument is true. The progressive left builds a platform on tolerance and other hype words, yet dedicate a whole movement to making fun of Trump's small hands, fat and pasty body, small penis, rug, and numerous other things when they condemn him for calling Hilary a nasty woman. They're so eager to build the strawman that they disregard that nasty means vicious or spiteful, which she most definitely is, and instead turn it into Trump shaming women.

-TG

[betiko]

let's see how long does this popular argument last: that liberals are just being hypocrites and nothing's wrong with Trump being president.


it's like the accepted go to argument right now, everywhere you see support from trump. i did not follow the campaign and follow this only some days, but i've seen many of these arguments. Like, "of course he's not a misogynist, that's the way men talk", "he's not saying that because he plans to do it, these are only campaign promises, everybody knows that", "of course he's not related to russia, that's just what hillary wants you to believe" and much more others.

you might get tired of watching news hosts and people in the street throwing their arms in the air every day, but don't fool yourself. that's not why you continue to find arguments pro trump.

This and mostly his saucage looking fingers

Trump is a clown, but the argument is true. The progressive left builds a platform on tolerance and other hype words, yet dedicate a whole movement to making fun of Trump's small hands, fat and pasty body, small penis, rug, and numerous other things when they condemn him for calling Hilary a nasty woman. They're so eager to build the strawman that they disregard that nasty means vicious or spiteful, which she most definitely is, and instead turn it into Trump shaming women.

-TG

So you are one who believes that any criticism, joke, exageration all come from the same sources to make him look less credible, but that none of this comes from trump himself and his ridiculous narcicism?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Trump is a clown, I said that. He's a buffoon. I was merely commenting on niet's point about the hypocrisy. It's very real.

Nonetheless, I have high hopes for Trump's presidency. There is potential there to shake things up. Trump is no different than any other politician now, he just lacks the cleverness and guile of career politicians. If people will pull their heads out of their asses and exercise a little perception, they'll see that a Trump presidency is a great big fucking mirror exposing all the ugliness of the U.S.'s political scene.

Politicians distract you with meaningless drivel like abortion debates, feel goody words like equality, or some other superficial cause du jour for the populace. Panem et circenses. Meanwhile they shape the world to forward their own ends.

-TG

[Symmetry]

Trump is a clown, I said that. He's a buffoon. I was merely commenting on niet's point about the hypocrisy. It's very real.

Nonetheless, I have high hopes for Trump's presidency. There is potential there to shake things up. Trump is no different than any other politician now, he just lacks the cleverness and guile of career politicians. If people will pull their heads out of their asses and exercise a little perception, they'll see that a Trump presidency is a great big fucking mirror exposing all the ugliness of the U.S.'s political scene.

Politicians distract you with meaningless drivel like abortion debates, feel goody words like equality, or some other superficial cause du jour for the populace. Panem et circenses. Meanwhile they shape the world to forward their own ends.

-TG

Is shaking things up a good thing in the way that Trump is doing it? Obama shook things up, but generally left the US in a better shape for it. Trump's crew look increasingly like a bunch of criminals.

More of a shake down.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Obama left the U.S. in better shape?

Are you high?

My belief isn't that Trump's actions will be successful in and of themselves; it's with Trump's inevitable failure I hope to see a move in the right direction. But I could be wrong.

-TG

[Symmetry]

Obama left the U.S. in better shape?

Are you high?

My belief isn't that Trump's actions will be successful in and of themselves; it's with Trump's inevitable failure I hope to see a move in the right direction. But I could be wrong.

-TG

Sure he did-



That's leaving out the millions who now have healthcare, and half the nation who have rights to equal pay, etc...

Why do you think that Obama left the nation worse off than it was when Dubya left office?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I'm skeptical that any president has direct influence on economic statistics. If you want me to believe Obama singlehandedly raised the DOW Jones 10k points, or reduced unemployment 2%, etc etc, you'll have to point to legislation he passed or caused to be passed which demonstrates this, rather than it being more likely that that's the natural order of market recovery after a crash (like in 2008). In fact, wikipedia says the crash was due to the defaulting of subprime mortgages allowed through the Community Reinvestment Act, a bill passed by a Democrat majority House and Senate in '77, signed by Carter, with a repealing of the Glass-Steagall act under Clinton's tenure. I'm sure patches could elaborate more.

Saying Obama was responsible for the recovery is like saying I cured my gf from a cold when I gave her chicken soup, when really it was the bedrest and natural tendency of the body to heal. He just happened to be in office at the time.

I'm more concerned that Obama continually worked to destroy Fourth Amendment rights, committed crimes while in office by killing U.S. citizens without a trial, contributed to the expansion of American military belligerence (the same if not more so than Bush), etc etc.

But sure, I'm glad my mother was able to get insurance which was slightly cheaper and provided about the same level of service, but which she had to fudge the numbers (upwards) to qualify for.

-TG

[Symmetry]

I'm skeptical that any president has direct influence on economic statistics. If you want me to believe Obama singlehandedly raised the DOW Jones 10k points, or reduced unemployment 2%, etc etc, you'll have to point to legislation he passed or caused to be passed which demonstrates this, rather than it being more likely that that's the natural order of market recovery after a crash (like in 2008). In fact, wikipedia says the crash was due to the defaulting of subprime mortgages allowed through the Community Reinvestment Act, a bill passed by a Democrat majority House and Senate in '77, signed by Carter, with a repealing of the Glass-Steagall act under Clinton's tenure. I'm sure patches could elaborate more.

Saying Obama was responsible for the recovery is like saying I cured my gf from a cold when I gave her chicken soup, when really it was the bedrest and natural tendency of the body to heal. He just happened to be in office at the time.

I'm more concerned that Obama continually worked to destroy Fourth Amendment rights, committed crimes while in office by killing U.S. citizens without a trial, contributed to the expansion of American military belligerence (the same if not more so than Bush), etc etc.

But sure, I'm glad my mother was able to get insurance which was slightly cheaper and provided about the same level of service, but which she had to fudge the numbers (upwards) to qualify for.

-TG

Which is all well and good, but you're quibbling now. Obama left the country in better shape than he found it in. Which was what you asked for.

[saxitoxin]

[nietzsche]

Obama left the U.S. in better shape?

Are you high?

-TG

Sure he did-

I'm skeptical that any president has direct influence on economic statistics.

TG, Take a look at that again.

This is what I've been trying to say. All of you are being illogical, and making fools out of yourselves.

Regardless of what this exchange proves, the arguments you're coming up with to defend Trump continue to get lamer and lamer. Why do you guys put yourselves in this position? This is not left vs right, at least not for me. You know there are center parties in other countries.

Earlier you said "nasty" means spiteful, I doubt Trump was referring to that meaning, and you discharged against those who turned it into an argument, and later you labeled Trump as a clown. Can you use a more softer adjective for what he's doing? Again, it's not what this "nasty" business proves, but the argumentation.

This is insane. There's a portion of the population of the US that wants to go backwards in many things, and maybe you're not one of them, but certainly leaving Trump in power encourages those xtratabascos. I do not like the exaggeration in PC either, but certain things cross the line, and you can quickly see when a person is meaning harm.

[saxitoxin]

you can quickly see when a person is meaning harm.