anti-lgbt law HB2 I'm from North Carolina

[TA1LGUNN3R]

But if Springsteen responds to laws he disapproves of by boycotting the lawmakers' locality, would he not do that for every locality which has laws he disapproves? Surely we are not suggesting that the only reason he is boycotting North Carolina is because he is jumping on the bandwagon for a bit of publicity ;_; I was so sure he was doing it as a principled stand against injustice.

Seriously thought, what's up with all these celebs peacocking around sticking it to politicians who enact silly stupid laws that they don't like? Has Joe Boehner ever rung Sting telling him what tempo his new single out to be?

When you get to the level of celebrity like Springsteen, suddenly you're more important than regular people and your opinion more valid. Also, enhancing or maintaining that celebrity becomes a full time job. If you can get some free press, it's worth it.

-TG

Sorry TG, your right of course, so what the state needs to do is ban him from ever playing there again, maybe citing civil disturbance as a reason for the ban same goes for PayPal, use wire fraud as a reason to lock them out,make it illegal to use in that state

That's not what I said or implied. I think Duk summed it up nicely. I merely added my own pragmatic view on the issue. I think oftentimes celebrities have more influence regarding things like politics simply because they're famous. Is some actor or musician so much more knowledgeable because he can pretend to be another person or play a dominant-seventh? No.

Some people care, I'm willing to bet a substantial portion are more motivated by their image.

Lol at PayPal. A huge company like that, do they not do business in shitty middle eastern countries who stone gays? I'll be more inclined to believe them when they stop doing business there.

-TG

[jgordon1111]

But if Springsteen responds to laws he disapproves of by boycotting the lawmakers' locality, would he not do that for every locality which has laws he disapproves? Surely we are not suggesting that the only reason he is boycotting North Carolina is because he is jumping on the bandwagon for a bit of publicity ;_; I was so sure he was doing it as a principled stand against injustice.

Seriously thought, what's up with all these celebs peacocking around sticking it to politicians who enact silly stupid laws that they don't like? Has Joe Boehner ever rung Sting telling him what tempo his new single out to be?

When you get to the level of celebrity like Springsteen, suddenly you're more important than regular people and your opinion more valid. Also, enhancing or maintaining that celebrity becomes a full time job. If you can get some free press, it's worth it.

-TG

Sorry TG, your right of course, so what the state needs to do is ban him from ever playing there again, maybe citing civil disturbance as a reason for the ban same goes for PayPal, use wire fraud as a reason to lock them out,make it illegal to use in that state

That's not what I said or implied. I think Duk summed it up nicely. I merely added my own pragmatic view on the issue. I think oftentimes celebrities have more influence regarding things like politics simply because they're famous. Is some actor or musician so much more knowledgeable because he can pretend to be another person or play a dominant-seventh? No.

Some people care, I'm willing to bet a substantial portion are more motivated by their image.

Lol at PayPal. A huge company like that, do they not do business in shitty middle eastern countries who stone gays? I'll be more inclined to believe them when they stop doing business there.

-TG

Again your right, yes I put my own spin on it, as a way to put celebrities and large corporations on notice, hey f*ck you, we make the laws not you, religious freedom is one of the basis of this country and majority rules, you don't like the laws then get them changed using the legal system, its been done before it can be done again, holding the state and people hostage via money lmao silly buggers trix is for kids

[Symmetry]

Meh- large corporations employ large numbers of people. If they'd be forced to break their own codes by a state, they face a tough decision. Force their employees to face bigotry, or look to another state.

Religous freedom is a dumb argument. Last time I checked the Bible, the Koran etc. said precisely nothing about transgender people's toilet usage.

It's an empty argument excusing bigotry. As with gay marriage, DADT, and creationism before, it doesn't stand up to scrutiny once it's no longer taken as given.

[warmonger1981]

So if religious freedom is a dumb argument then one must assume there should be a State run religion? You should understand that when these books were written it was a standard that male and female are separated in certain situations. It was common place. Rules and regulations were not needed. Transgender was practically unheard of.

Maybe your being non inclusive since you fail to understand ones personal rights to think what one feels is correct to their own views. Your not being very inclusive.

Creationism is a weak argument on both sides. Neither side can produce evidence with 100% clarity.

[mrswdk]

In recent years a Beijing shop put up a sign in its window saying 'No Chinese', and when people complained were told China has no laws on racial discrimination and so the sign could remain in place.

Perhaps this is just North Carolina's way of showing that it is on board with the Beijing Consensus.

[jgordon1111]

So if religious freedom is a dumb argument then one must assume there should be a State run religion? You should understand that when these books were written it was a standard that male and female are separated in certain situations. It was common place. Rules and regulations were not needed. Transgender was practically unheard of.

Maybe your being non inclusive since you fail to understand ones personal rights to think what one feels is correct to their own views. Your not being very inclusive.

Creationism is a weak argument on both sides. Neither side can produce evidence with 100% clarity.

One thing is very clear a man is a man and a woman is a woman, yes EQUAL pay etc.
But unless science is hiding a breakthrough, your born with a set of chromosomes making you one or the other, so it doesn't matter what you have removed or added, take testosterone or hormones, the chromosomes you are born with define your gender your entire life, no amount of argument can change that FACT, its actually got nothing to do with religion except in the creationist sense

[warmonger1981]

Tell that to identity politics. Just because your born with male genitals doesn't mean a person identifies with that gender. Or maybe a person is born black doesn't mean they identify as a black person. You can't force your views on a person's own identity.

[mrswdk]

I suppose rendering gender and ethnic definitions totally meaningless is one way of eradicating those particular prejudices. Once nietzsche can tell people he's a black woman without anyone batting an eyelid, then we will know the world has become truly color blind.

[jgordon1111]

Tell that to identity politics. Just because your born with male genitals doesn't mean a person identifies with that gender. Or maybe a person is born black doesn't mean they identify as a black person. You can't force your views on a person's own identity.

You missed the point, YOUR CHROMOSOMES IDENTIFY YOUR GENDER, this is a FACT that cannot be disputed, no matter how or what you personally think or feel, and until science figures out a way to change this fact A MAN IS A MAN AND A WOMAN IS A WOMAN. FLASH BRUCE JENNER IS STILL A MAN AND CHASTITY BONO IS STILL A WOMAN no matter what the MEDIA says or wants you to believe.
Get It?

Now if you can show me logical or scientific PROOF I am wrong please do so.
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller?
I didn't think so

[notyou2]

So if religious freedom is a dumb argument then one must assume there should be a State run religion? You should understand that when these books were written it was a standard that male and female are separated in certain situations. It was common place. Rules and regulations were not needed. Transgender was practically unheard of.

Maybe your being non inclusive since you fail to understand ones personal rights to think what one feels is correct to their own views. Your not being very inclusive.

Creationism is a weak argument on both sides. Neither side can produce evidence with 100% clarity.

If you think there is no evidence for evolution, YOU REALLY ARE STUPID. The evidence is overwhelming. However, there are many that choose to ignore it.

[notyou2]

Tell that to identity politics. Just because your born with male genitals doesn't mean a person identifies with that gender. Or maybe a person is born black doesn't mean they identify as a black person. You can't force your views on a person's own identity.

You missed the point, YOUR CHROMOSOMES IDENTIFY YOUR GENDER, this is a FACT that cannot be disputed, no matter how or what you personally think or feel, and until science figures out a way to change this fact A MAN IS A MAN AND A WOMAN IS A WOMAN. FLASH BRUCE JENNER IS STILL A MAN AND CHASTITY BONO IS STILL A WOMAN no matter what the MEDIA says or wants you to believe.
Get It?

Now if you can show me logical or scientific PROOF I am wrong please do so.
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller?
I didn't think so

The proof is all around you. Look at the transgendered. Yes they have sexual organs of a different sex than they identify with. Some actually have organs of both sexes, or had. A cock does not make a man.

[jgordon1111]

Tell that to identity politics. Just because your born with male genitals doesn't mean a person identifies with that gender. Or maybe a person is born black doesn't mean they identify as a black person. You can't force your views on a person's own identity.

You missed the point, YOUR CHROMOSOMES IDENTIFY YOUR GENDER, this is a FACT that cannot be disputed, no matter how or what you personally think or feel, and until science figures out a way to change this fact A MAN IS A MAN AND A WOMAN IS A WOMAN. FLASH BRUCE JENNER IS STILL A MAN AND CHASTITY BONO IS STILL A WOMAN no matter what the MEDIA says or wants you to believe.
Get It?

Now if you can show me logical or scientific PROOF I am wrong please do so.
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller?
I didn't think so

The proof is all around you. Look at the transgendered. Yes they have sexual organs of a different sex than they identify with. Some actually have organs of both sexes, or had. A cock does not make a man.

Again its your CHROMOSOMES THAT IDENTIFY YOUR GENDER, TRANSGENDER IS A LIE, Without changing your CHROMOSOMES you are still the GENDER you were born as, no matter what the MEDIA wants you to believe, by your logic I can say a dog is a parrot just because I say so, and if that's not going far enough for you, I can declare my DOG supreme ruler of the universe
Get it ? Your argument of self identifying in this situation is invalid.
NEXT?
And before the next one steps up, lets try something easier for you to grasp, show me any of these people who started as a woman and had the operation that can on their own produce sperm to make a baby or on the other side a man that can produce his own eggs to make a baby, oh no they can't do it, can they! Why? Because they are still the GENDER their chromosomes say they always will be!

[muy_thaiguy]

Tell that to identity politics. Just because your born with male genitals doesn't mean a person identifies with that gender. Or maybe a person is born black doesn't mean they identify as a black person. You can't force your views on a person's own identity.

You missed the point, YOUR CHROMOSOMES IDENTIFY YOUR GENDER, this is a FACT that cannot be disputed, no matter how or what you personally think or feel, and until science figures out a way to change this fact A MAN IS A MAN AND A WOMAN IS A WOMAN. FLASH BRUCE JENNER IS STILL A MAN AND CHASTITY BONO IS STILL A WOMAN no matter what the MEDIA says or wants you to believe.
Get It?

Now if you can show me logical or scientific PROOF I am wrong please do so.
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller?
I didn't think so

The proof is all around you. Look at the transgendered. Yes they have sexual organs of a different sex than they identify with. Some actually have organs of both sexes, or had. A cock does not make a man.

I just saved everyone about 60 seconds of their time to sum up what you said.

[jgordon1111]

Tell that to identity politics. Just because your born with male genitals doesn't mean a person identifies with that gender. Or maybe a person is born black doesn't mean they identify as a black person. You can't force your views on a person's own identity.

You missed the point, YOUR CHROMOSOMES IDENTIFY YOUR GENDER, this is a FACT that cannot be disputed, no matter how or what you personally think or feel, and until science figures out a way to change this fact A MAN IS A MAN AND A WOMAN IS A WOMAN. FLASH BRUCE JENNER IS STILL A MAN AND CHASTITY BONO IS STILL A WOMAN no matter what the MEDIA says or wants you to believe.
Get It?

Now if you can show me logical or scientific PROOF I am wrong please do so.
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller?
I didn't think so

The proof is all around you. Look at the transgendered. Yes they have sexual organs of a different sex than they identify with. Some actually have organs of both sexes, or had. A cock does not make a man.

Again its your CHROMOSOMES THAT IDENTIFY YOUR GENDER, TRANSGENDER IS A LIE, Without changing your CHROMOSOMES you are still the GENDER you were born as, no matter what the MEDIA wants you to believe, by your logic I can say a dog is a parrot just because I say so, and if that's not going far enough for you, I can declare my DOG supreme ruler of the universe
Get it ? Your argument of self identifying in this situation is invalid.
NEXT?
And before the next one steps up, lets try something easier for you to grasp, show me any of these people who started as a woman and had the operation that can on their own produce sperm to make a baby or on the other side a man that can produce his own eggs to make a baby, oh no they can't do it, can they! Why? Because they are still the GENDER their chromosomes say they always will be!

No idea what you put up MUY, I disabled img a while back

[warmonger1981]

I actually agree with you on the male/female thing. I'm playing devil's advocate. I posted a bunch of stuff in another thread a while back making the same arguments you make. I think it was Mets who tried coming up with a bunch of scientific shit to try and prove his points. Maybe he can weigh in again on this.


As far as evolution goes can someone tell me how a caterpillar knows how to transform itself first as an egg, then as a caterpillar, next as a pupa in its chrysalis, and finally, it emerges as a butterfly. Then it automatically knows how to fly. Then migrate thousands of miles. I'm sure cells know how to do all this just by evolution.

[jgordon1111]

I actually agree with you on the male/female thing. I'm playing devil's advocate. I posted a bunch of stuff in another thread a while back making the same arguments you make. I think it was Mets who tried coming up with a bunch of scientific shit to try and prove his points. Maybe he can weigh in again on this.


As far as evolution goes can someone tell me how a caterpillar knows how to transform itself first as an egg, then as a caterpillar, next as a pupa in its chrysalis, and finally, it emerges as a butterfly. Then it automatically knows how to fly. Then migrate thousands of miles. I'm sure cells know how to do all this just by evolution.

What you say about the caterpillar/butterfly goes beyond evolution. Animals insects have (instinct) or if you will a memory passed from one generation to the next on a level that humans never had or they lost somehow, we still have a few (instincts) left, but nothing on the level of almost other creature we share this planet with.
Example elephant graveyards, the saying when i was growing up was that elephants had great memories, no solid proof of this,but when an elephant grows old and feels it is dying it will try to go there to die, its a solitary trip the herd doesn't go, so how do they know where to go?

[TA1LGUNN3R]

I actually agree with you on the male/female thing. I'm playing devil's advocate. I posted a bunch of stuff in another thread a while back making the same arguments you make. I think it was Mets who tried coming up with a bunch of scientific shit to try and prove his points. Maybe he can weigh in again on this.


As far as evolution goes can someone tell me how a caterpillar knows how to transform itself first as an egg, then as a caterpillar, next as a pupa in its chrysalis, and finally, it emerges as a butterfly. Then it automatically knows how to fly. Then migrate thousands of miles. I'm sure cells know how to do all this just by evolution.

That's protein expression and epigenetics, which would tend to support evolution...

Besides, caterpillars aren't the only organisms with life cycles. Look at plants, they have two completely different sets.

Elephants are self-aware and have communication abilities. Perhaps they were told where to go. Ravens have been observed to tell the rest of their group where an item was, and they were able to locate it sans informer the next day. Elephants are fairly intelligent.

-TG

[riskllama]

so are ravens/crows.

[Symmetry]

Tell that to identity politics. Just because your born with male genitals doesn't mean a person identifies with that gender. Or maybe a person is born black doesn't mean they identify as a black person. You can't force your views on a person's own identity.

You missed the point, YOUR CHROMOSOMES IDENTIFY YOUR GENDER, this is a FACT that cannot be disputed, no matter how or what you personally think or feel, and until science figures out a way to change this fact A MAN IS A MAN AND A WOMAN IS A WOMAN. FLASH BRUCE JENNER IS STILL A MAN AND CHASTITY BONO IS STILL A WOMAN no matter what the MEDIA says or wants you to believe.
Get It?

Now if you can show me logical or scientific PROOF I am wrong please do so.
Anyone? Anyone?
Bueller? Bueller?
I didn't think so

The proof is all around you. Look at the transgendered. Yes they have sexual organs of a different sex than they identify with. Some actually have organs of both sexes, or had. A cock does not make a man.

Again its your CHROMOSOMES THAT IDENTIFY YOUR GENDER, TRANSGENDER IS A LIE, Without changing your CHROMOSOMES you are still the GENDER you were born as, no matter what the MEDIA wants you to believe, by your logic I can say a dog is a parrot just because I say so, and if that's not going far enough for you, I can declare my DOG supreme ruler of the universe
Get it ? Your argument of self identifying in this situation is invalid.
NEXT?
And before the next one steps up, lets try something easier for you to grasp, show me any of these people who started as a woman and had the operation that can on their own produce sperm to make a baby or on the other side a man that can produce his own eggs to make a baby, oh no they can't do it, can they! Why? Because they are still the GENDER their chromosomes say they always will be!

Do you not understand the difference between sex and gender? It's kinda seeming like you very angrily have no clue.

That's OK mate, because you obviously have no clue on the chromosome front either.

Transgender ain't a lie kid. Getting knocked up isn't the be all and end all of being a woman. Nor is being able to get soneone preggers the definition of being a man.

[warmonger1981]

Already knew about the Genetic Memory stuff. Didn't think anyone else did. Bravo.

Ahh the wordplay game. Sex/gender. I see you just used the word mate. In what context do you use this word? It's easily misinterpreted. Do you mean friend or lover or naval officer or beverage? Obviously you need to be more specific since you tried to call out someone else for their use of words. You know what context he used the word sex. Quit not picking.

[jgordon1111]

In this case I specifically use GENDER , because it goes quickly to the point and sex is misleading in the context of this subject, because the one thing these people HAVE MANAGED TO DO is become neutrals by having organs that are useless for reproduction,

Actually I think that would be a MORE fitting term for what they now have become, neutral isn't as harsh and it has less possible offense, kinda like Switzerland, word association neutral Switzerland

Understand?

[notyou2]

Gordo, what you believe, feel or invent really doesn't matter because you have already lost the argument. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[riskllama]

imo, this is why religious types should not be allowed to run for public office as religion seems to taint fact and/or reason.

[jgordon1111]

Gordo, what you believe, feel or invent really doesn't matter because you have already lost the argument. Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Ty for the heads up, but The only thing I feel is the part about neutrals, everything else is FACT, not my belief, feeling or invention, no brag just FACT.

You said your piece now back up your point with undisputed proof, find ONE biologist who will say your correct

You can't

NEXT

side note I don't stop just because RANDOM people on a game site don't like what I have said, unlike so many here, who bow to a perceived peer pressure, for that to work on me there would have to be one of my peers here. Flash there isn't.
Next

[riskllama]

imo, this is why religious types should not be allowed to run for public office as religion seems to taint fact and/or reason.

JFK being the exception...