Flooded Kingdoms of the Ice Age

[PLAYER57832]

I want to know what flooded all the ancient Greek harbors with sediment. Where did all that sediment come from? Was there a great mudslide? Did Kahlua even exist???

ALL deltas fill with mud, but what time frame are you asking about?

[warmonger1981]

If there is nothing wrong with investigation why did you attack me Player? Do you actually believe everything that a person in a white coat says? You do know about the vaccines that have killed thousands? You do know about Bayer and their scandal of giving HIV to hemophiliacs? You do know that the flu vaccine has never been effective as they only guess what the next strain will be without ever guessing correctly? If you've ever heard a commercial on TV for vaccines and all their side effects a person might think twice about that vaccine. BTW do you have any good explanations for the massive rise in autism since the early 1980's?

[PLAYER57832]

If there is nothing wrong with investigation why did you attack me Player?

You gave nothing real, only wide claims of conspiracies and misinformation.

Do you actually believe everything that a person in a white coat says?

Of course not.

You do know about the vaccines that have killed thousands?

Some have died, yes, but no where NEAR as many as would have died from the illnesses themselves.

You do know about Bayer and their scandal of giving HIV to hemophiliacs?

Scandal? At the time, there was no test for AIDs, in fact it was not even identified at first. I am not going to get into the claim that they sold older Vaccine to Latin America.

You do know that the flu vaccine has never been effective as they only guess what the next strain will be without ever guessing correctly?

Wrong, it is not perfect, is, in fact not as effective as many other vaccines, but it does give a lesser risk of the Flu.

If you've ever heard a commercial on TV for vaccines and all their side effects a person might think twice about that vaccine.

Yes, except that those risks are no where near as great as for the diseases themselves.

BTW do you have any good explanations for the massive rise in autism since the early 1980's?

A lot of it was due to a change in the diagnosis criteria. The definition for what constitutes Autism was expanded about then, by quite a bit. Also, several popular books, etc, brought it more into people's focus back then. Some of the causes are not yet known, but any link to vaccines has been disproven. The scientist originally putting forward the idea has now rescinded his claims. It was worth investigating, but there was nothing to it.

[Bernie Sanders]

I was born before Measles, Rubella and Chicken pox vaccines were used. I had all three sicknesses. Many children died from Measles.

I'm so happy that vaccines have been used on almost all American children. Many children in third world countries are still suffering and dying from measles and polio, mostly from ignorance or it's not available to them.


I see that ignorance is still alive in this thread.

[PLAYER57832]

I was born before Measles, Rubella and Chicken pox vaccines were used. I had all three sicknesses. Many children died from Measles.

I'm so happy that vaccines have been used on almost all American children. Many children in third world countries are still suffering and dying from measles and polio, mostly from ignorance or it's not available to them.


I see that ignorance is still alive in this thread.

PS, I happened to work with the last person confirmed to have had polio in this part of PA. He and another boy each got it, the other boy did not make it. The guy I worked with is now suffering from post-polio syndrom. Even that is not fun, though he absolutely counts himself lucky. It is ONLY lack of knowledge about these diseases that gives any kind of credence to avoiding the major vaccinations. Flu is not in that category, by-the-way.

[Symmetry]

If there is nothing wrong with investigation why did you attack me Player? Do you actually believe everything that a person in a white coat says? You do know about the vaccines that have killed thousands? You do know about Bayer and their scandal of giving HIV to hemophiliacs? You do know that the flu vaccine has never been effective as they only guess what the next strain will be without ever guessing correctly? If you've ever heard a commercial on TV for vaccines and all their side effects a person might think twice about that vaccine. BTW do you have any good explanations for the massive rise in autism since the early 1980's?

I doubt that there was a massive rise in autism mate. You're probably confusing a rise in diagnoses with a rise in the disorder. The explanation is that there was a greater awareness and better diagnostic tests available.

If vaccines like the MMR were responsible for autism in any way, a switch to single shots, as they did in Japan, would result in lower autism rates. This did not happen. They remained steady. The two are unrelated.

[warmonger1981]

So basically humans have always been autistic at the current ratios? We just haven't figured it out until now?

Bayer knew they had bad vaccines and sold them in countries other than America.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... PGOnskfUCw

Or

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... r9nM6UE1pw
You trying to dismiss the issue on Bayer is blowing up in your face. Don't worry I'm sure it's only a conspiracy.


As far as your flu shot goes its only 23% effective.https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... vKzO8AbJ_g
I'll take my chance and you take your shot.

[Symmetry]

So basically humans have always been autistic at the current ratios? We just haven't figured it out until now?

I think you've missed the point mate. Autism is a diagnosis. It's a label for a certain type of developmental disorder, itself having a broad spectrum.

That people weren't diagnosed as autistic before autism was a diagnosis is just common sense and a circular argument.

Are you following me so far?

[PLAYER57832]

I doubt that there was a massive rise in autism mate. You're probably confusing a rise in diagnoses with a rise in the disorder. The explanation is that there was a greater awareness and better diagnostic tests available.

Actually they changed the definition of what constitutes autism. They changed it again recently, basically eliminating "Aspergers" and instead just calling it all "Autism spectrum disorder". That, and yeah.. better awareness/diagnosis.

[Symmetry]

I doubt that there was a massive rise in autism mate. You're probably confusing a rise in diagnoses with a rise in the disorder. The explanation is that there was a greater awareness and better diagnostic tests available.

Actually they changed the definition of what constitutes autism. They changed it again recently, basically eliminating "Aspergers" and instead just calling it all "Autism spectrum disorder". That, and yeah.. better awareness/diagnosis.

I mentioned that it was a spectrum in the post directly above your reply. Aspergers was always kind of a useless diagnosis anyway. Developmental disorders are better considered on a spectrum tailored toward individuals.

[PLAYER57832]

So basically humans have always been autistic at the current ratios? We just haven't figured it out until now?

Possibly, though it looks like there have been some increases. However vaccines has been firmly eliminated as a cause, as has lack of maternal attention (originally it was thought basically "cold mothers" caused the syndrom). Its very likely there is at least some genetic component, since it tends to run in families.

Bayer knew they had bad vaccines and sold them in countries other than America.

That has been alleged. Its all hyperbole, not facts at this point, which is why I said I was not going to get into it.
I will say that its a lot easier to blame a "big bad foreign company" than to simply say "we decided the risk was worth it" (whether "it" is cost-savings, time, or other factors)

As far as your flu shot goes its only 23% effective.

."My" flu shot? I actually did not get a flu shot this year, though I have been getting them. The current vaccine is less effective than other vaccines have been, but that is not actually because the vaccine itself is bad so much as the flu strains that emerged were not exactly the ones expected to dominate. You have to realize how many different strains of flu there are. Its pretty amazing that they are as effective as they have been.

Basically, you show why quick internet searches are not the same as real research.

[PLAYER57832]

I mentioned that it was a spectrum in the post directly above your reply. Aspergers was always kind of a useless diagnosis anyway. Developmental disorders are better considered on a spectrum tailored toward individuals.

I agree. Its just that there was more involved than just better tests. They did expand the definition by quite a bit back when the initial spikes in diagnosis' were being seen and that part was not well explained to parents getting the diagnosis.

I suspect the definitions will eventually split again, because the syndrome covers so many different things. However, they lines are likely to be drawn differently than the old definitions.

[Symmetry]

I mentioned that it was a spectrum in the post directly above your reply. Aspergers was always kind of a useless diagnosis anyway. Developmental disorders are better considered on a spectrum tailored toward individuals.

I agree. Its just that there was more involved than just better tests. They did expand the definition by quite a bit back when the initial spikes in diagnosis' were being seen and that part was not well explained to parents getting the diagnosis.

I suspect the definitions will eventually split again, because the syndrome covers so many different things. However, they lines are likely to be drawn differently than the old definitions.

It's very possible. I personally think there's a movement toward practical therapy aligned with awareness. It's also been kind of interesting to see how characters that I recognise as autistic have become more popular on TV. In the US, Bones has Temperance Brennan, for example. Or even comedies like Sheldon Cooper in Big Bang Theory.

Those examples are high-functioning though, but it's great to see role models dealing with the social difficulties.

[Phatscotty]

Freedom to vaccinate or not

[riskllama]

holy f*ck, did this thread ever get derailed...
fix yer shit, PS

[PLAYER57832]

I mentioned that it was a spectrum in the post directly above your reply. Aspergers was always kind of a useless diagnosis anyway. Developmental disorders are better considered on a spectrum tailored toward individuals.

Or even comedies like Sheldon Cooper in Big Bang Theory.

I love that character, though actually several of the characters in that show would probably qualify with what I still call Asperger's , just because its simpler sometimes (though I do qualify it).

[PLAYER57832]

Freedom to vaccinate or not

Freedom to be quarantined, so you are no threat to the kids who cannot get vaccinated.

--- and once again, you accuse me of avoiding your questions while firming NOT answering anything I put forward. Guess you haven't changed.

[warmonger1981]

Player where do you get your false sense if reality? Let me spell it out for you.

Wikipedia
Contaminated haemophilia blood products were a serious public health problem in the late 1970s through 1985. These products caused large numbers of haemophiliacs to become infected with HIV and hepatitis C. The companies involved included Alpha Therapeutic Corporation, Institut Mérieux (which then became Rhone-Poulenc Rorer Inc., and is now part of Sanofi), Bayer Corporation and its Cutter Biological division, Baxter International and its Hyland Pharmaceutical division.[1] Estimates range from 6,000 to 10,000 haemophiliacs in the United States becoming infected with HIV.[1][2]

Factor VIII is a protein that helps the clotting of blood, which haemophiliacs, due to the genetic nature of their condition, are unable to produce themselves. By injecting themselves with it, hemophiliacs can stop bleeding or prevent bleeding from starting; some use it as often as three times a week.[3]

In SA and Asia

On February 29, 1984, Cutter became the last of the four major blood product companies to get US approval to sell heated concentrate.[3] Even after Cutter began selling the new product, for several months, until August 1984, the company continued making the old medicine.[3] One reason was that the company had several fixed-price contracts and believed that the old product would be cheaper to produce.[3]

Bayer officials (responding on behalf of Cutter) issued a statement, stating that Cutter continued to sell the old medicine, "because some customers doubted the new drug's effectiveness", and because some countries were slow to approve its sale. The company also said that a shortage of plasma, used to make the medicine, had kept Cutter from manufacturing more of the new product."[3] Bayer officials also claimed that an overall plasma shortage in 1985 kept Cutter from making more heat treated medicine; however, because Cutter was using some of its limited plasma to continue making the old product, they may have contributed to the shortage.[3] While Bayer said that "procedural requirements" imposed by Taiwan slowed down their ability to sell the new product, according to The New York Times, Hsu Chien-wen, an official at Taiwan's health department, said in 2003 that Cutter had not applied for permission to sell the heated medicine until July 1985, a year and a half after doing so in the United States.[3] Cindy Lai, assistant director of Hong Kong's health department, said that Cutter needed only to get an import license in the 1980s to sell the newer product in which "It normally [takes] one week."[3]

While the new product was selling well for Cutter, a Cutter company meeting notes that "There is excess nonheated inventory", which resulted in the company deciding to "review international markets again to determine if more of this product can be sold."[3] Cutter decided to sell millions of dollars of the older medicine to Asia and Latin America while selling the new, safer product in the West, to avoid being stuck with large stores of a product that was proving increasingly unmarketable.[3]

In late 1984, when a Hong Kong distributor asked Cutter about the newer product, records show that Cutter asked the distributor to "use up stocks" of the old medicine before switching to its "safer, better" product.[3] Several months later, once haemophiliacs in Hong Kong began testing positive for HIV, some local doctors began to question whether Cutter was dumping "AIDS tainted" medicine into less-developed countries.[3] Cutter denied the allegation, claiming that the unheated product posed "no severe hazard" and was in fact the "same fine product we have supplied for years."[3] By May 1985, when the Hong Kong distributor told of an impending medical emergency, asking for the newer product, Cutter replied that most of the new medicine was going to the US and Europe and there wasn't enough for Hong Kong, except for a small amount for the "most vocal patients."[3]

The United States Food and Drug Administration helped to keep the news out of the public eye. In May 1985, the FDA's regulator of blood products, Harry M. Meyer Jr., believing the companies had broken a voluntary agreement to withdraw the old medicine from the market, called together officials of the companies and ordered them to comply.[3] Cutter's notes from the meeting indicate that Meyer asked that the issue be "quietly solved without alerting the Congress, the medical community and the public" while another company noted that the FDA wanted the matter solved "quickly and quietly."[3]



Player wrote:he current vaccine is less effective than other vaccines have been, but that is not actually because the vaccine itself is bad so much as the flu strains that emerged were not exactly the ones expected to dominate.


So basically get a vaccine and HOPE it works as the flu shot is nothing but a shot in the dark? So far I think I've brought documented evidence. You've brought nothing but opinion.

[warmonger1981]

I say we quarantine you player for not getting the flu shot. Your irresponsible. 23% is better then nothing. How irresponsible are you? For Gods sake get the shot.

[PLAYER57832]

Player where do you get your false sense if reality? Let me spell it out for you.

Wikipedia .....

You do realize that Wikipedia is a user-written, unverified set of articles that can (with only a few exceptions) be changed by just about anyone? That said, I did not deny anything, I just said it was more complicated than you are trying to insist and I did not want to get bogged down discussing the case.
Among other issues, this thread was supposed to be about Ice Age kingdoms, and you were making the claim that vaccines were not valid. Your point had nothing to do with either.

Player wrote:he current vaccine is less effective than other vaccines have been, but that is not actually because the vaccine itself is bad so much as the flu strains that emerged were not exactly the ones expected to dominate.


So basically get a vaccine and HOPE it works as the flu shot is nothing but a shot in the dark? So far I think I've brought documented evidence. You've brought nothing but opinion.

No, you have brought out a few links that are other people's opinions, not "documented evidence"... and, again, you have not actually disputed anything I have said, just gone off on wild conjecture trails.

As to the flu vaccine... it offers increased protection from the flu. It has never been said to be fully preventative, so stop trying to pretend like this is some big conspiracy. This is hardly secret.

This has nothing at all to do with other vaccines that are very, very effective. Mumps, Measles, Rubella, Polio, Small Pox, whooping cough have all been effectively wiped out in most of the world thanks to vaccines. If you want to criticize, start by educating yourself about what the diseases did when they were rampant, THEN you can go dig up your conspiracy theories, but make sure you contrast your ideas about the vaccines with what happens with the diseases themselves!

[warmonger1981]

I never said vaccines don't work. Im aware of what wikipedia is and how it works This conversation is over. PS sorry for fucking up your thread. I'm done. Good day player and get those shots. All of them if your truly a responsible person.

[Neoteny]

You're mom.

[waauw]

You're mom.

If you didn't want your mother on the internet, you shouldn't have taught her how to use the computer.