Is there such thing as free will or is all this shit planned

[MeDeFe]

Sorry to disappoint you Lack, but just because we can't accurately describe the physical universe doesn't mean that there's free will. It just means we can't calculate it exactly.


But don't worry, I think there's plenty of empirical evidence for free will, every time a person thinks about what to do next, for example.

Even a game like chess, where you're actively trying to predict what your enemy will do and move your pieces accordingly BEFORE he gets around to do it, which sounds like predestination par excellence, is a demonstration of free will, I've played dozens of game that started with the same moves, and they all developed differently.

[heavycola]

Sorry to disappoint you Lack, but just because we can't accurately describe the physical universe doesn't mean that there's free will. It just means we can't calculate it exactly.

Well, the two are likely connected. Quantum theory introduced uncertainty into physics, and free will depends on uncertainty of outcome.

[lackattack]

But don't worry, I think there's plenty of empirical evidence for free will, every time a person thinks about what to do next, for example.

I'm playing devil's advocate here, but couldn't one argue that "thinking" and "consciousness" are just chemical illusions of being in control, and your decision process plays out according to determined chemical reactions in your brain??

[Vincent M]

Bingo Lack

What stimulates these reactions in the Brain? That Decides your choices.

[Roger Dodger]

i think it may be both. predestined is something you can't control like your birth, genes, education & living conditions. these are things that are provided for you. while you are growing up you abide by someone elses will that being a parent, guardian of any kind or educators /religious and well as friends influence how you think & do things.
.
when you are old enough that's when free will kicks in. you are able to make decisions on your our. you should be able to know good from bad and depending on all the items in the predestined side of the fence. you should be able to choose which path in life you are going to take.

sometimes people make wrong choices sometimes right ones. all depends on the individual.

i know from experience that i have made decisions that have been wrong and has effected others but, i also know that i have made positive decisions that have worked out well.

born & raised 100% hard core Catholic
decided of free will:
not affiliate myself with any type of organized religion. but, believe in God

got scholarship for college 4 yr degree free.
decision of free will:
wanted to hang with my buddies instead

worked for a bank right out of high school.
decided of free will:
rather go to the beach than work. got fired.

all of these decisions have been either good or bad within my lifetime.
one hopes a person learns from their mistakes and don't repeat the same ones over & over.

would i have changed anything. some yes some no.

the church thing.. no.
the college thing.. yes
the bank thing.. would not have happened had i been at school so, here ya go free will.

what would i be doing today if i had stayed in school.. Practicing Law. being a prosecutor..would i have liked it.. yes

what do i do today..

highly paid network technical specialist for a large telecom company.
do i like what i do.. Yes.

so, at the end i chose a career path that suited me anyway.

all on account of free will.

[speckknoedelsup]

i think which decisions we make is mostly due to our subconsciousness and to our consciousness. what kind of consciousness and subconsciousness we have atm is due to the circumstances we live in, the decisions we already made, and due to everything that influences us (friends, films, books, expierences, climate,).

i believe most decisions we make are made by our subconsciousness giving us the illusion of free will. almost like Siegmund Freud pointed it out.

but i still believe there is a small part of free will in our brain , or at least i want to believe so.

at least i want to point out for those that believe in the mighty of our subconsciousness there are several ways to influence subconsciousness.
the most known are:
konditioning ... works for sure but takes long
hypnose ... don't know if it works, but if it does it works imediatly
meditation ... quite hard to make that work.

so i don't know what to think; i believe free will is very much an illusion, but i also don't think our live is predecisioned. i believe that most decisions are made by our subconsciousness

[Roger Dodger]

well, i think it's the conscience thought that provides free will.

Freud also based all human mental problems on our mothers.

not necessarily true 100%.

[vtmarik]

Well, there has to be a distinction between predestination and fatalism.

The concept of predestination is akin to a mission objective, "I was put on this earth to be a shoemaker." There is still a certain amount of free will as someone can reject their predestined role and move in a different direction.

Fatalism on the other hand is the idea that someone else is in control, "No matter what I do, I'm destined to be a shoemaker. It's out of my hands." The fatalistic mind cannot move away from the supposed destiny because the fatalist believes that he is only operating under the whim of some other entity.

The concept of "A great plan" and the will of a deity are examples of fatalism more than predestination.