CrazyAnglican wrote:Hey Heavy Cola,
I'm glad that you see you are no more openminded that me. We are both pigheaded:-) Its not always bad let's embrace it. I found it interesting that you referred to Chrisitanity's built in defense mechanism. I find that people who haven't really read the Bible tend to resort to this. It's not a defense mechanism, It's ignorance. Let's call it what it is. You will not hear me say that you are evil in any way for disagreeing with me. It's like asking "So, do you still beat your wife?" its a cheap rhetorical technique and it backfires.
To be honest, most of the arguments I have been having on this board have been with the fire 'n' brimstone/creationist/rapture ready crowd - i shouldn't have been presumptious. My apols.
I have not read the whole bible, but I have read enough. I went to two religious schools, took exams in 'Scripture'... Reading all four gospels and going to church every day did nothing for me. God coulda had me if he wanted!
CrazyAnglican wrote:In much the same way atheists tend to use words like open minded, scientific, and rational to describe themselves. These are equally fallacious. We have already tackled open-minded and agreed that neither of us is open-minded. Let's move on to scientific. I agree that my belief in God is unscientific. That's why I call it a belief. I do not need to believe in gravity; I know that it exists. Science is useless when faced with the existence of God. It can only be used to make observations on things that are quantifiable. God is not. The scientific answer to the statement "There is a bigger dinosaur than the ones we have found" has to be "there isn't any evidence to support or deny that hypothesis". In the same way science cannot prove or disprove God's existence in the absence of evidence that can be measured. So atheism is also a belief and, as such, no more scientific than Christianity.
I disagree. Phrases like 'god is not quantifiable' are rhetoric designed to place him out of reach, which in turn creates a need for faith. Nor do i believe science is useless here: God has been shrinking as scientific knowledge has increased and i believe one day there will be nowhere left for an idea of god to hide.
The two positions of atheism and xianity are not equally scientific, IMHO. In fact xianity demands belief in several instances where the laws of physics were broken on many occasions. 'But god is outside those laws' - more rhetoric. He is either a part of this universe or he isn't, and an interventionist god would have to be the former, and therefore subscribe to these laws.
As for rationality - a belief in the tenets of any major religion is hardly rational (i don't mean that in a pejorative sense). Think of all the ways christianity needs to justify itself, for example: "Why is there so much evil in the world?" or "Why are my prayers not answered?" - and then ask: "what if god doesn't exist?" .. and suddenly all these paradoxes and problems resolve themselves instantly. That is rationality.
CrazyAnglican wrote:By the way, I am a Christian. I believe you call your credibility into question when you state that you are no more "anti-xian than you are anti-Muslim, or anti-Hindu" (paraphrased) when you cannot seem to bear putting Christ's name on your computer screen. Please acknowledge that you have something in particular against Christianity, or stop referring to us as xians. Whether you comply with this request or not I will refer to you as an atheist as you seem to prefer.
Xian is shorthand for christian, like xmas is for christmas. It is not meant as a slur at all, i am just used to writing it that way to save time! My g/f is a theologian, it's a habit i picked up from her.
I meant what I said. I am no more anti-christian than anti-hindu. Religion has been useful in our development, and it has been very counterproductive, too, to put it mildly. We should have outgrown it all by now.
CrazyAnglican wrote:"The Chronicles of Narnia" were written for a five year old.
Exactly. Why not wait until children are old enough to decide for themselves before telling them 'this is so'. Yuk.
. I am not anti-xian, per se; i'm no more anti-xian than i am anti-muslim, anti-hindu, anti-scientologist, or anti-satanist. I am an atheist based on how things appear to me - i have never stopped questioning that, though. The thing about religious faith, as it appears on these boards, is that it is NEVER questioned. Have you ever stepped back and asked '"what if this is all make-believe?" - because i am pretty sure most atheists ask the same question in reverse from time to time.
but also because b) he can't, according to your faith. Another problem. Do i believe in transcendence, in human 'spirituality', for want of a better word? Absolutely. How you achieve that - yoga, prayer, meditation, isolation tank, scientology, drugs - is up to you, and if a belief in a god helps, then fine. But it's superfluous really IMHO.
