ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[PLAYER57832]

Okay, and you have a valid point. However, my point was not why is cost more, simply that it costed way more than they said it would . And it's not selective history. That was merely the most simple example to prove. I have never heard of my state coming in under budget, it always always always costs more, for anything. You say you are 17? I think that's what you said...if that is true there is much experience awaiting you and you will eventually know this to be the truth and you will think back to this post and be like "dangggggg"

That's because people keep voting in polititians who promise to cut taxes and lower expenses, but when those politicians get to the capitols, they realize they are no better miracle workers than the previous folks.

[TheSaxlad]

above merged with obamacare topic.

[Phatscotty]

Okay, and you have a valid point. However, my point was not why is cost more, simply that it costed way more than they said it would . And it's not selective history. That was merely the most simple example to prove. I have never heard of my state coming in under budget, it always always always costs more, for anything. You say you are 17? I think that's what you said...if that is true there is much experience awaiting you and you will eventually know this to be the truth and you will think back to this post and be like "dangggggg"

That's because people keep voting in polititians who promise to cut taxes and lower expenses, but when those politicians get to the capitols, they realize they are no better miracle workers than the previous folks.

Miracle workers? LOL. The ability to say NO may be a miracle for the weak. That's why we sent strong people.

[saxitoxin]

Some local doctors, faced with a large cut in what the government pays them for treating Medicare patients, are telling senior patients they must switch by year's end to better-paying private Medicare Advantage plans. Paul Williams, 72, was one of about 6,000 patients who recently received a letter from Highline Medical Group, a consortium of 35 doctors in eight clinics in the South Puget Sound area, telling them to switch plans by Jan. 1, when traditional government Medicare reimbursements are set to shrink by 25 percent. Williams, who's been seeing Highline doctors for 20 years, said he understands their dilemma and doesn't blame them for not wanting to lose money.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/l ... cs26m.html

[karel]

yes it will be sad when they overturn it,back to square 1........If the republicans are so damn worried about it,then why have they done jack about health care?cuz maybe they dont have a plan as usual.
Obama has done more for health care then anyone has in the last 40 years

[saxitoxin]

Obama has done more for health care then anyone has in the last 40 years

corrected: "Obama has done more for health insurance mega-corporations like UHC and Aetna than anyone has in the last 40 years."

[PLAYER57832]

That's one reason the Republicans suggested this plan about 15 years ago (roughly). Even so, its better than what we had before. At least insurers can't turn down kids with pre-existing conditions.

[john9blue]

But... but... the corporations...

[PLAYER57832]

Well, see, we really do have universal healthcare. It's called "Medicaid". Get poor enough and taxpayers wind up getting the WHOLE tab.

[jbrettlip]

Well, see, we really do have universal healthcare. It's called "Medicaid". Get poor enough and taxpayers wind up getting the WHOLE tab.

And that is why I support Bulletaid...freee bullets for those poor people.

[john9blue]

Well, see, we really do have universal healthcare. It's called "Medicaid". Get poor enough and taxpayers wind up getting the WHOLE tab.

And that is why I support Bulletaid...freee bullets for those poor people.

wow, you're a douche.

[ViperOverLord]

Well, see, we really do have universal healthcare. It's called "Medicaid". Get poor enough and taxpayers wind up getting the WHOLE tab.

Yes and that system is going bankrupt and in the process the government has used its ineffectiveness as justification to control your life and to raise your taxes and "fees" and to control your health care options. No thank you to the government controlling health care.

[Phatscotty]

Well, see, we really do have universal healthcare. It's called "Medicaid". Get poor enough and taxpayers wind up getting the WHOLE tab.

and doctors get 20 cents on the dollar

[PLAYER57832]

Well, see, we really do have universal healthcare. It's called "Medicaid". Get poor enough and taxpayers wind up getting the WHOLE tab.

Yes and that system is going bankrupt and in the process the government has used its ineffectiveness as justification to control your life and to raise your taxes and "fees" and to control your health care options. No thank you to the government controlling health care.

Yes, bankruptcy is what happens when you allow insurance companies to get whatever fees they wish for insuring healthy people, only to dump them when they actually get sick. See, if those dollars that give insurance companies such wonderful profits, unknown anywhere else in the world, instead went to a universal system, to support all of us, then suddenly, overall healthcare AND taxes would be a lot cheaper.

But, don't take my word for it, just look at any other country in this world with a modern medical system, and you will find that people pay far less than we for their care. AND, its no more substandard than here.

[ViperOverLord]

Well, see, we really do have universal healthcare. It's called "Medicaid". Get poor enough and taxpayers wind up getting the WHOLE tab.

Yes and that system is going bankrupt and in the process the government has used its ineffectiveness as justification to control your life and to raise your taxes and "fees" and to control your health care options. No thank you to the government controlling health care.

Yes, bankruptcy is what happens when you allow insurance companies to get whatever fees they wish for insuring healthy people, only to dump them when they actually get sick. See, if those dollars that give insurance companies such wonderful profits, unknown anywhere else in the world, instead went to a universal system, to support all of us, then suddenly, overall healthcare AND taxes would be a lot cheaper.

But, don't take my word for it, just look at any other country in this world with a modern medical system, and you will find that people pay far less than we for their care. AND, its no more substandard than here.

I'm not going to spend a minute defending the insurance companies. I'm sure they deserve whatever blame they deserve. But the fact is that medicare is a government conception and program and pawning off their inabilities to the insurance companies does not reflect the realities of the situation.

[PLAYER57832]

I'm not going to spend a minute defending the insurance companies. I'm sure they deserve whatever blame they deserve. But the fact is that medicare is a government conception and program and pawning off their inabilities to the insurance companies does not reflect the realities of the situation.

I see, so you think that insurance companies actually do insure truly sick people, more than a few very wealthy and a few lucky others, that is? It doesn't matter how long you have paid them, go off insurance for 60 days and NO previous conditions are covered in adults. That, even aside from the many delay tactics insurance companies use on people who still think they actually have insurance.

OR, is it that you think the government ought to be able to care for the pretty much just the truly sick for cheaper than insurance companies can?

[ViperOverLord]

I'm not going to spend a minute defending the insurance companies. I'm sure they deserve whatever blame they deserve. But the fact is that medicare is a government conception and program and pawning off their inabilities to the insurance companies does not reflect the realities of the situation.

I see, so you think that insurance companies actually do insure truly sick people, more than a few very wealthy and a few lucky others, that is? It doesn't matter how long you have paid them, go off insurance for 60 days and NO previous conditions are covered in adults. That, even aside from the many delay tactics insurance companies use on people who still think they actually have insurance.

OR, is it that you think the government ought to be able to care for the pretty much just the truly sick for cheaper than insurance companies can?

I agree that insurance companies are part of the problem in general medical coverage. But their level of guilt is irrelevant to how I feel about how pathetic the govt. is at administering health care. If you want to start a what's bad with the insurance companies thread then I think you made good points that I'd back. But I'm not going to confuse the insurance companies levels of disservice with the governments inept control of medicare.

[PLAYER57832]

I agree that insurance companies are part of the problem in general medical coverage. But their level of guilt is irrelevant to how I feel about how pathetic the govt. is at administering health care. If you want to start a what's bad with the insurance companies thread then I think you made good points that I'd back. But I'm not going to confuse the insurance companies levels of disservice with the governments inept control of medicare.

No dice. A lot of people like to slam Medicaid and Medicare, but its not enough to say "this system isn't perfect". You have to provide alternatives. The biggest problems with those programs are that they have to provide for an overwhelming number of sick patients for too few dollars. This means reimbursements get slashed, some coverage cut and the number of adults that are covered is slashed. One of the prime reasons for that is insurance patient dumping. The fact that insurance companies make millions from insuring healthy people. only to dump them when they get sick DOES impact the overall cost of healthcare.

You slam the government out of principle, but the reality is that every other civilized country covers its citizens better for cheaper, and government "interference" is a primary reason why.

[ViperOverLord]

I agree that insurance companies are part of the problem in general medical coverage. But their level of guilt is irrelevant to how I feel about how pathetic the govt. is at administering health care. If you want to start a what's bad with the insurance companies thread then I think you made good points that I'd back. But I'm not going to confuse the insurance companies levels of disservice with the governments inept control of medicare.

No dice. A lot of people like to slam Medicaid and Medicare, but its not enough to say "this system isn't perfect". You have to provide alternatives. The biggest problems with those programs are that they have to provide for an overwhelming number of sick patients for too few dollars. This means reimbursements get slashed, some coverage cut and the number of adults that are covered is slashed. One of the prime reasons for that is insurance patient dumping. The fact that insurance companies make millions from insuring healthy people. only to dump them when they get sick DOES impact the overall cost of healthcare.

You slam the government out of principle, but the reality is that every other civilized country covers its citizens better for cheaper, and government "interference" is a primary reason why.

We tax people directly for medicare right now. And does our money go to funds directly for our care at a later point? No. The truth is that my care will depend on a small base of people that can't give me adequate coverage. I know its broke and I can't opt out? What kind of b.s. is that? That's unAmerican. You want to talk about corruption? I'd gladly take the thousands of dollars that the govt syphons from my paycheck and invest it and self insure myself or go to Lloyds Of London and pay a sum for a guaranteed amount of coverage at another point. I'm talking real actual insurance and not this PPO, HMO nonsense that has became artificially inflated health care. The govt. is the problem and all your blaming health insurance companies won't change that.

[PLAYER57832]

We tax people directly for medicare right now. And does our money go to funds directly for our care at a later point? No. The truth is that my care will depend on a small base of people that can't give me adequate coverage. I know its broke and I can't opt out? What kind of b.s. is that? That's unAmerican. You want to talk about corruption? I'd gladly take the thousands of dollars that the govt syphons from my paycheck and invest it and self insure myself or go to Lloyds Of London and pay a sum for a guaranteed amount of coverage at another point. I'm talking real actual insurance and not this PPO, HMO nonsense that has became artificially inflated health care. The govt. is the problem and all your blaming health insurance companies won't change that.

You sound like a spoiled child. Give me MORE and don't you dare charge me for it! You have to pay now, when you are healthy, so there WILL be money when you truly get sick. Of course, the insurance companies cheat and take your money only to drop you later. So, the tax dollars go up and coverage decreases for the real sick care.

The plain fact is that as long as government programs only cover the sickest people, they will be incredibly expensive. As long as insurers are allowed to dictate what they charge and who they cover with profit as their motive, not your well-being, then the situation will degrade even worse.

Oh, and healthcare costs a lot because we now live in a world where heart surgary has probably a higher success rate than appendectemis did 2 generations or so ago. More care does cost more. And limits have to come because there just are not 1,000,000 neurosurgeons in this country. Insurers place limits so they get to make a profit. The government has a chance to put other issues in, BUT that means listening to real people and not corporations.

For all its talk of "freedom", the Tea Party is the biggest corporate patsy yet. NONE of their answers truly have to do with needs of average people. Wants, sure.. wants that are unrealistic. Wants that are so unrealistic, the politicians who promise them wind up fighting against the very things we need. What we need is a univeral, government health care plan or any one fo the other systems such as can be found all through Europe.

[Night Strike]

A lot of people like to slam Medicaid and Medicare, but its not enough to say "this system isn't perfect". You have to provide alternatives.

And the only answer you provide to insurance is the government. Sounds like the exact same argument you're deriding VoL for.

[PLAYER57832]

A lot of people like to slam Medicaid and Medicare, but its not enough to say "this system isn't perfect". You have to provide alternatives.

And the only answer you provide to insurance is the government. Sounds like the exact same argument you're deriding VoL for.

Not even close. Pick any one of the European systems. I, personally would prefer France's system, but any of them would be better than what we have now, and absolutely better than what the so-called "Tea Party" suggests. (when they suggest anything, which is pretty rare).

[Phatscotty]

move to france

[Iliad]

move to france

Patriotism at its best. If you think you can improve the country you live in, you should instead just move.

[ViperOverLord]

move to france

Patriotism at its best. If you think you can improve the country you live in, you should instead just move.

A bigger point would be that you'd have to apply and then they would not likely take you.