Why does the rest of the world hate America

[vtmarik]

Yes, I never said they couldn't, they aren't or that they didn't. I'm just saying that it added an extra excuse to their already compendious list. Forgive me for calling it like I see it.

It is a silly observation, but to claim that I was trying to make this grandiose theory about conspiracies between the US oil companies and OPEC was not only asinine, it was truly moronic.

[Mirak]

Joe let me try and help you


Assume that you are a heavy drinker....you are invited to a wedding...attending the wedding gives you an excuse to have a few drinks....

its a simple term of speech, give him a break...

...but if you read my earlier post you might like to address some of your well thought out and articulate arguments to me

[AAFitz]

NOTHING GENERATES HATE MORE THAN JEALOUSY

[Joe McCarthy]

Posting in all caps has that effect as well.

[Jolly Roger]

Ok, lets take that exact sentence chromosome boy. Its a silly observation, as OPEC can raise prices whenever they want for whatever reason they want and have done so many times.

I have spent literally minutes online researching oil prices so, as an authority on this subject, I should interject to suggest that OPEC cannot raise prices whenever they want - all they can do is encourage or allow an increase or decrease in production. While the effects of these changes in production have somewhat predictable effects on oil prices, the prices themselves are established on open markets whereby, depending on worldwide reserves, a decrease in production could backfire if prices do not rise as much as expected. Furthermore, increased prices allow for more competition since non-OPEC oil-producing countries with higher production costs can increase their production and still make a profit while at the same time supplementing worldwide supply.

Back on topic: People dislike America because of its relentless marketing. Those who hate America are just looking for attention.

[Jolly Roger]

So you're saying that you have to stay in Iraq until they like you?

I'm saying we have to stay in Iraq until the new government is capable of fending for itself. That includes police, military, etc.

Really, I've never heard ANYONE argue that we should pull out NOW. By all means, I would love it if we did... do you think Americans enjoy having money sucked from our treasury by the billions per week?

First of all, I'm not sure you have any money in your treasury. Given your national debt, I'd say you're pretty much driving on fumes.

Secondly, a lot of the money being spent on the war ends up in the pockets of American contractors (some of whom have been accused of totally ripping off the government). War has always been good for business so that makes me wonder about the motives of those arguing to go into Iraq in the first place and those arguing to stay indefinitely. In short, I think it's a little naive to believe that the reasons for going into and staying in Iraq are entirely altruistic. Can we all agree that politicians, American or otherwise, are generally a bunch of greedy bastards?

[OnlyAmbrose]

So you're saying that you have to stay in Iraq until they like you?

I'm saying we have to stay in Iraq until the new government is capable of fending for itself. That includes police, military, etc.

Really, I've never heard ANYONE argue that we should pull out NOW. By all means, I would love it if we did... do you think Americans enjoy having money sucked from our treasury by the billions per week?

First of all, I'm not sure you have any money in your treasury. Given your national debt, I'd say you're pretty much driving on fumes.

Secondly, a lot of the money being spent on the war ends up in the pockets of American contractors (some of whom have been accused of totally ripping off the government). War has always been good for business so that makes me wonder about the motives of those arguing to go into Iraq in the first place and those arguing to stay indefinitely. In short, I think it's a little naive to believe that the reasons for going into and staying in Iraq are entirely altruistic. Can we all agree that politicians, American or otherwise, are generally a bunch of greedy bastards?

I don't know anyone in real life who wants to see the troops stay in Iraq "indefinately". Most of the people I know, including myself, want a deadline and want to see it upheld. It pisses me off that Mr. President hasn't given us one.

On the flip side, I don't know anyone in real life who wants the troops out NOW AT THIS VERY MOMENT. It's not practical. Like it or not, a few years ago America destroyed Iraq's government, which was Saddam's regime. Unfortunately, not only do we have to clean out the rubble created by the destruction of the proverbial government structure, but we also have to get the foundations for one set up so that we can (hopefully soon) hand off responsibility to the Iraqi government. Could we have been out of there sooner if the operation was planned and carried out better? Probably, but that's how things roll. The operation WASNT planned and carried out better, so here we are with the necessity facing us. That's something most conservatives AND liberals I know can agree on.

Now let it be known that I am NOT a Bush-supporter... (let it further be known that I am not a Bush-basher either). I think the former Iraqi regime did need to be eliminated, and sooner rather than later, though I am not certain whether or not it was carried out in the correct manner. I'll decide that in a ten or fifteen years. Personally... I'm a bit more isolationist in my views than a "Republican", so I generally consider myself an Independent or Constitutionalist. Anyhow, fact is, as much as I don't like it, we're stuck there for awhile. And our nonexistant treasury which is supplied for by about 25% of each American's income continues to be sapped.

And yes, I will give you my wholehearted agreement on one point- politicians are generally lying bastards.

[Jolly Roger]

If you get a firm deadline, what happens when the deadline comes and goes and the Iraqi government still isn't prepared for the US departure and the country is still mostly rubble? You said yourself that the planners of this operation haven't exactly done a stellar job to date. What good are deadlines established by a bunch of proven poor planners?

[Backglass]

the damn country would collapse if we pulled out now, and in the ensuing chaos it would be fairly easy for a radical party to take control and spawn a bigger threat than what was present before we entered. Basically, we don't really have a choice anymore.

If thats the goal, we should just plant a flag now and call it a state because those radicals are still going to be there...waiting...10, 20, 50 years from now. It's a holy war in their eyes and we know how long those last, especially in that part of the world.

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$338,455,532,444.00 and counting.
http://www.costofwar.com

[OnlyAmbrose]

the damn country would collapse if we pulled out now, and in the ensuing chaos it would be fairly easy for a radical party to take control and spawn a bigger threat than what was present before we entered. Basically, we don't really have a choice anymore.

If thats the goal, we should just plant a flag now and call it a state because those radicals are still going to be there...waiting...10, 20, 50 years from now. It's a holy war in their eyes and we know how long those last, especially in that part of the world.

---------------------------------------------------

$338,455,532,444.00 and counting.
http://www.costofwar.com

I'm not saying the radicals are going to pack up and leave. I'm saying that until Iraqi forces are capable of dealing with it on their own it's our headache- it has to be or Iraq would collapse if we pulled out, unfortunately.

[P Gizzle]

do foreigners hate the Americans or their Government? just wondering.

[OnlyAmbrose]

do foreigners hate the Americans or their Government? just wondering.

There's no way for a foreigner to answer that question... It's a vast generalization, to say you hate a full people. If someone answered: "yes, I hate Americans", they could only possibly mean that they hate the stereotypical Homer Simpson American.

People tend to say they hate a certain people because of the action of said people's government. It doesn't mean they hate every single solitary person of that country, by any means.

[P Gizzle]

do foreigners hate the Americans or their Government? just wondering.

There's no way for a foreigner to answer that question... It's a vast generalization, to say you hate a full people. If someone answered: "yes, I hate Americans", they could only possibly mean that they hate the stereotypical Homer Simpson American.

People tend to say they hate a certain people because of the action of said people's government. It doesn't mean they hate every single solitary person of that country, by any means.

what i mean is, why is america hated? because you dont like people like me, or becasue you don't like what our Government has done?

[FireEagle]

So you're saying that you have to stay in Iraq until they like you?

I'm saying we have to stay in Iraq until the new government is capable of fending for itself. That includes police, military, etc.

Really, I've never heard ANYONE argue that we should pull out NOW. By all means, I would love it if we did... do you think Americans enjoy having money sucked from our treasury by the billions per week?

First of all, I'm not sure you have any money in your treasury. Given your national debt, I'd say you're pretty much driving on fumes.

Actually, we're driving on our military. Our national debt is only worth a dime if someone calls it in on us. Who's going to call in the US' debt? The true debt of the US is no larger than the cost to put up that stupid sign in Times Square. I've actually done some research on the subject and find it highly amusing that everybody freaks out about the national debt. Think about it this way...what is money but a tree byproduct? What places value on money? We do. We say "This pack of gum is worth 1 dollar" and as long as somebody agrees, it's worth 1 dollar. So if the US says "Our national debt is worth 0 dollars", who's going to say "No it's not!" The US just happens to have the premier fighting force in the world...thus making it a semi-hegemony. Switzerland can be as rich as it wants, but if the US puts a gun in its face, it loses everything.

On the topic of American military (my true area of expertise), the reasons behind the Iraq war are vast, I'm sure, but one reason that is oft overlooked is that, just like any other nation, we needed to prove our strength. Why did Sadaam not let us inspect his facilities? Because he didn't have anything, but if the Iranians knew that, Iraq would be toast. It's a balance of power. It's been awhile since the US proved that it was still number 1, and so off to war it went. We needed to remind the world that we were, in fact, still number 1. Furthermore, it actually gave credibility to the beaureucratic mess known as the UN. The UN has been writing angry, innefective letters for too long, and it's about time someone enforced them. People only obey what they have too.

God bless America! Hooah!

[heavycola]

So if the US says "Our national debt is worth 0 dollars", who's going to say "No it's not!"

not quite. China is going to surpass the US as the world's superpower in the near future... even sooner if the US keeps up this brand of foriegn policy. And China happens to be by far the largest owner of US goevrnment bonds. If it ever decided to redeem them - boom. The world order is changing. Iraq is a morass, soliders are dying every day for nothing, it is bleeding US coffers dry - as will Iran, North Korea, Syria or whoever else your govt decides to help next. The age of America is ending. History has always predicted it would happen.

[Joe McCarthy]

It does look tough for us now. We could monetize the debt, as has been suggested, but thats third world stuff and would ruin us. And China has it all over us. But the same things were said about us in the '60s and '70s. the smart money then was betting that communism would be running the world before long. During Carters tenure it was his opinion and Kissingers and a great many peoples' that the best thing we could do was just manage our inevitable decline. Thats why Reagan sounded so crazy, he was saying the best for us was still ahead, the Soviets not only wont be running things in the future, they cant even keep up with us and will collapse. And he was right.

We can still beat China though heavycola. They are accepting some elements of capitalism but are still trying to run a command economy. As long as they keep holding themselves back in that way we have time to get our debt under control and get back on top. If they embrace free-market capitalism any time soon though its going to hard for us.

[heavycola]

They are accepting some elements of capitalism but are still trying to run a command economy. As long as they keep holding themselves back in that way we have time to get our debt under control and get back on top. If they embrace free-market capitalism any time soon though its going to hard for us.

True dat. The US and Europe are still being complacent, but ultimately it won;t mattrer IMHO. The power centre shifted from Europe to the US earlier this century, and it's about to swing back east, and even so the US isn't going to implode under the weight of its bloated capitalistic evilitude or anything like that. Probably it will become a little quieter, more settled and less relevant, just like Europe. Actually i think most of that post was half-hearted tuesday trolling

How are you anyway? Any more insane rushes?

[Joe McCarthy]

No, and Ive been trying. Gotten up to 9K on my usual deposit once, and a few smaller than that. Im starting to think that other was a once in a lifetime thing.

[FireEagle]

So if the US says "Our national debt is worth 0 dollars", who's going to say "No it's not!"

not quite. China is going to surpass the US as the world's superpower in the near future... even sooner if the US keeps up this brand of foriegn policy. And China happens to be by far the largest owner of US goevrnment bonds. If it ever decided to redeem them - boom. The world order is changing. Iraq is a morass, soliders are dying every day for nothing, it is bleeding US coffers dry - as will Iran, North Korea, Syria or whoever else your govt decides to help next. The age of America is ending. History has always predicted it would happen.

Of course the US will eventually decline...no one's immature enough to admit to believing that it won't...or at least they should be ashamed of themselves if they do. I personally like to compare the US to the last greatest world empire, Rome. I think that the US will become as corrupt as Rome itself before destablizing. So how do we survive China? Two years ago, I predicted that China was going to become such a threat to the US that within 20 years, we will be at war with China. This seems to be manifesting itself daily. My Master Sergeant was just sent over to China last June. There will be war before the US goes down. Although China does have superior manpower, they are largely uneducated and underfed. For all of China's growth, something like 90% of the population lives in rural China, not contributing much to its economic growth.

The following exerpt is from China Inc., a book by Ted Fishman, which I recommend for anyone who is concerned about a Chinese world order anytime soon.

In 2003, China's GDP was $1.4 trillion...seventh-largest economy in the world. The economy of the US is still by far the world's biggest; with a 2003 GDP of $10.1 trillion, it is seven times the size of China's. (The world economy...totaled $36.4 trillion in 2003.)

Fishman goes on to give statistics such as the US' average economic growth per year is 3%, while China's is 9%. So, figuring that we continue at this rate, it will take China decades to even come close to the US figures, and given history, every early economic boom flounders.

[Backglass]

do foreigners hate the Americans or their Government? just wondering.

I travel internationally extensively for my job. The first thing people ask when we are having the after work beer is either "What do you think of Mr. Bush" or "Where were you on 9/11" (since I live in NY). I can say that 100% of the folks I have meet abroad have hated bush. One or two have hated Americans in general.

Later after they get to know me, they usually say something like "You are not like most Americans". This is not because I am different, but because they just dont know any Americans and generalize...exactly like we do about Mexicans, Muslims and anyone else different than us. Less than 20% of Americans own a passport, even less have ever left US Soil. The world only knows us from TV & Movies, and the same goes for us.

The best thing Americans could do is get a passport, and take that next family vacation to a different country. Go see Paris or London or Tokyo. If you go to Mexico, go to a REAL Mexican city instead of cities that were invented like Cancun & Cabo. Be respectful and meet the people. THATS how we change our image abroad, and you might just make a lifelong friend. I have.

If there is one thing I have learned after setting foot in over 15 countries on four continents...it's this: People are the same everywhere. We all have the same goals. There are good people & a**holes in every country...just like here.

[Joe McCarthy]

The best thing Americans could do is get a passport, and take that next family vacation to a different country. Go see Paris or London or Tokyo. If you go to Mexico, go to a REAL Mexican city instead of cities that were invented like Cancun & Cabo. Be respectful and meet the people. THATS how we change our image abroad, and you might just make a lifelong friend. I have.

If there is one thing I have learned after setting foot in over 15 countries on four continents...it's this: People are the same everywhere. We all have the same goals. There are good people & a**holes in every country...just like here.

f*ck that noise. No American needs to travel outside the US unarmed and my kids arent big enough to hold a rifle yet.

[Mirak]

f*ck that noise. No American needs to travel outside the US unarmed and my kids arent big enough to hold a rifle yet.

Outside of the obvious, immediate war zones, unfortunately the chances of your kids being shot in the US are far higher than anywhere else on the planet.....

[Joe McCarthy]

You are boring...

[terrafirma]

do foreigners hate the Americans or their Government? just wondering.

I travel internationally extensively for my job. The first thing people ask when we are having the after work beer is either "What do you think of Mr. Bush" or "Where were you on 9/11" (since I live in NY). I can say that 100% of the folks I have meet abroad have hated bush. One or two have hated Americans in general.

Later after they get to know me, they usually say something like "You are not like most Americans". This is not because I am different, but because they just dont know any Americans and generalize...exactly like we do about Mexicans, Muslims and anyone else different than us. Less than 20% of Americans own a passport, even less have ever left US Soil. The world only knows us from TV & Movies, and the same goes for us.

The best thing Americans could do is get a passport, and take that next family vacation to a different country. Go see Paris or London or Tokyo. If you go to Mexico, go to a REAL Mexican city instead of cities that were invented like Cancun & Cabo. Be respectful and meet the people. THATS how we change our image abroad, and you might just make a lifelong friend. I have.

If there is one thing I have learned after setting foot in over 15 countries on four continents...it's this: People are the same everywhere. We all have the same goals. There are good people & a**holes in every country...just like here.

i dont think i have any room to talk about being respectful but i think that this topic just got ended by this post i think this is probaly the best way to make america more liked nice post by the way

[Mirak]

Joe
we can't all be as entertaining as you...