coronavirus - The Legacy

[saxitoxin]

I heard the US Congress is so polarized that the two Ruling Party factions can't even vote through emergency support for business and employees dealing with the COVID outbreak right now.

Yes. If this continues President Trump will need to shut Congress and legislate by Executive Order. He has a popular mandate to do so.

[Dukasaur]

Yesterday the U.S. passed South Korea for 7th place in total cases. Overnight, it passed France for 6th place.

The US has a population of 330,000,000. France has a population of 67,000,000. No person with an IQ above 12 would want to trade places with France. There are, per capita, five dead Frenchmen for every American.

Macron faces the very real threat of being overthrown by the French Army if things get much more dire. The entire French state is on the verge of collapse. Should that happen Presidents Trump, Putin or Xi may face the tough choice of using extreme methods of sterilization of Metroplitan France to control their runaway case load in the absence of a functioning government in Paris.

In the week since you wrote this, you have passed Germany, Spain, and Iran to take 3rd place as the world's biggest breeding ground of Covid virus.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

While the rate of spread is now showing signs of slowing down in France and Spain, in the U.S. it is still picking up steam. Soon you will ready to challenge Italy for 2nd, and then the ultimate prize, beating China for #1.

I'm sure even then you will refuse to admit that maybe infinite hubris is not a cure for disease.

[jimboston]

I heard the US Congress is so polarized that the two Ruling Party factions can't even vote through emergency support for business and employees dealing with the COVID outbreak right now.

Yes. If this continues President Trump will need to shut Congress and legislate by Executive Order. He has a popular mandate to do so.

Really?

Even this fake universe you don’t believe is getting quite ridiculous.

1) The term “Popular Mandate” has no legal meaning and grants no special power.

2) He doesn’t have a popular mandate anyway... he’s one of the most unpopular Presidents ever.
The same people that hated him before this crisis still hate him and blame him from all government failures.
The same people that loved him before this crisis still love him and believe he’s doing everything right.

[mrswdk]

The WHO is preparing to label the US the epicentre of the pandemic and the Prez appears to be doing his best to hurry up and wipe out the whole country:

https://www.businessinsider.com/coronav ... ion-2020-3

Does the rest of the world stage some sort of intervention, or just wall the country off and leave it to its plague? Which option will be best for the global economy?

[jonesthecurl]

Maybe God looks is looking at the current Trump and is not holding on to the past.

So what is he doing right now that is mandated/approved of by god?

[jonesthecurl]

Maybe God looks is looking at the current Trump and is not holding on to the past.

I mean, you can tell us because god talks directly to you right?

[mookiemcgee]

Maybe God looks is looking at the current Trump and is not holding on to the past.

I mean, you can tell us because god talks directly to you right?

Haven't you been reading his threads in the 'street corner'? That's exactly what's happening.

[saxitoxin]

Yesterday the U.S. passed South Korea for 7th place in total cases. Overnight, it passed France for 6th place.

The US has a population of 330,000,000. France has a population of 67,000,000. No person with an IQ above 12 would want to trade places with France. There are, per capita, five dead Frenchmen for every American.

Macron faces the very real threat of being overthrown by the French Army if things get much more dire. The entire French state is on the verge of collapse. Should that happen Presidents Trump, Putin or Xi may face the tough choice of using extreme methods of sterilization of Metroplitan France to control their runaway case load in the absence of a functioning government in Paris.

In the week since you wrote this, you have passed Germany, Spain, and Iran to take 3rd place as the world's biggest breeding ground of Covid virus.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

While the rate of spread is now showing signs of slowing down in France and Spain, in the U.S. it is still picking up steam. Soon you will ready to challenge Italy for 2nd, and then the ultimate prize, beating China for #1.

I'm sure even then you will refuse to admit that maybe infinite hubris is not a cure for disease.

Duk has agreed that if the U.S. has fewer Covid deaths per million than Italy by May 1 he will quit CC. If it has more, then I will. The race is on! Check back regularly for updates...

Deaths per 1MM People

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

1. Europe (Italy) - 113
2. Europe (Spain) - 60
3. Iran - 24
4. Europe (France) - 16
5. Europe (Netherlands) - 16
6. Europe (Switzerland) - 14
7. Europe (Luxembourg) - 13
8. Europe (Belgium) - 11
9. Europe (UK) - 6
10. Europe (Denmark) - 6
...
20. United States - 2

[HitRed]

About the Shelter in Place Orders

March 24, 20

I the Lord come to you to speak words of encouragement to all who follow my commands and do my will. I come to shower blessings on those that follow me and answer the call to stay in place. Know that I am with you and secure your borders. I strengthen the gates that protect and guard you. Come and stay close to my Sacred Heart where there is security for all who trust in me. I come as a faithful parent to look in on my fold. I guard you and protect you as long as you stay in my will. Come and be one with me in my Most Sacred Heart. I guide you and love you always and forever. My spirit is with each of you in this time of trial. Find your strength in me for I am always with you.

Go in my love and my mercy.

[jonesthecurl]

Maybe God looks is looking at the current Trump and is not holding on to the past.

I mean, you can tell us because god talks directly to you right?

My point exactly. Though I stopped reading it a long while ago when Jesus started getting too repetetive.

[jonesthecurl]

About the Shelter in Place Orders

March 24, 20

I the Lord come to you to speak words of encouragement to all who follow my commands and do my will. I come to shower blessings on those that follow me and answer the call to stay in place. Know that I am with you and secure your borders. I strengthen the gates that protect and guard you. Come and stay close to my Sacred Heart where there is security for all who trust in me. I come as a faithful parent to look in on my fold. I guard you and protect you as long as you stay in my will. Come and be one with me in my Most Sacred Heart. I guide you and love you always and forever. My spirit is with each of you in this time of trial. Find your strength in me for I am always with you.

Go in my love and my mercy.

How about all the kids crowded together in detention camps at high risk of coronavirus? Is god OK with that?

[Dukasaur]

Lol, don't forget to bob and weave while you move them goalposts!

A week ago you thought total body bags were the only valid measurement.
Subject: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Actually, the U.S. has no idea how many cases it has. It could be 20 cases per million, or it could be 2,000 per million. Since testing has been so sporadic, nobody really knows.

This is true of all countries. However, body counts are unambiguous and there are thousands of corpses in Europe and a bit north of 100 in the U.S.

Now that those have shot up from 100 to almost 800 in one week, you want to switch to deaths per million?

[list]Deaths per 1MM People

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

By that measure, you've already caught up to China. 2.4 deaths per million in China, 2.4 million deaths per million in the U.S.

We'll wait to see where you spin this next....

[saxitoxin]

Lol, don't forget to bob and weave while you move them goalposts!

A week ago you thought total body bags were the only valid measurement.
Subject: coronavirus - is this real or hype?

Actually, the U.S. has no idea how many cases it has. It could be 20 cases per million, or it could be 2,000 per million. Since testing has been so sporadic, nobody really knows.

This is true of all countries. However, body counts are unambiguous and there are thousands of corpses in Europe and a bit north of 100 in the U.S.

Now that those have shot up from 100 to almost 800 in one week, you want to switch to deaths per million?

[list]Deaths per 1MM People

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

By that measure, you've already caught up to China. 2.4 deaths per million in China, 2.4 million deaths per million in the U.S.

We'll wait to see where you spin this next....

There were 1,000 more deaths yesterday in Europe and 46 in the U.S. so it's not looking great for you but you've got until May 1 to win your bet that you'll quit CC if the U.S. has fewer per capita deaths than Italy by them. So you still have time for a miraculous turnaround.

[saxitoxin]

About the Shelter in Place Orders

March 24, 20

I the Lord come to you to speak words of encouragement to all who follow my commands and do my will. I come to shower blessings on those that follow me and answer the call to stay in place. Know that I am with you and secure your borders. I strengthen the gates that protect and guard you. Come and stay close to my Sacred Heart where there is security for all who trust in me. I come as a faithful parent to look in on my fold. I guard you and protect you as long as you stay in my will. Come and be one with me in my Most Sacred Heart. I guide you and love you always and forever. My spirit is with each of you in this time of trial. Find your strength in me for I am always with you.

Go in my love and my mercy.

How about all the kids crowded together in detention camps at high risk of coronavirus? Is god OK with that?

There are no documented cases of C19 at a Hospitality Center.

[Dukasaur]

I made no bet, but it's not looking good for you. Deaths slowing down now in Europe, gaining momentum fast in the U.S.

[mrswdk]

Did you see Trump bailing on that White House press briefing with that woman after she said she’d had a fever over the weekend?

[Dukasaur]

I was curious about why the Korean and Taiwanese administrations have been going nuts for giving everyone face masks and from a bit of Googling it sounds like the reason they are doing so is because wearing masks will help symptom-less carriers avoid passing on COVID to other people before they carrier has been diagnosed (e.g. this article says the Korean government are recommending only people with symptoms wear masks. Other medical experts in the country are arguing with thatand saying that healthy people should wear them too, which they are saying because those people might be symptom-less carriers at risk of spreading the disease to other people). So yes, some governments in Asia are mass-producing masks in response to the COVID outbreak, but they're not saying masks will stop you contracting COVID.

Incidentally wearing masks to prevent yourself spreading a disease has been a practice in Japan for quite a long time as far as I'm aware. People who are sick often wear masks when they're out and about to stop them from passing their sickness on to other people.

As I said earlier, if you're in close contact with COVID carriers for extended periods of time then a mask will help you avoid contracting COVID - but only if combined with eye protection and some pretty serious and regular sterilisation on your clothes, hands etc. The virus spreads via vapour droplets, which can enter your body via your eyes just as much as they can via your mouth or nose, so a mask by itself won't do anything.

Appreciate you're just trying to look out for your wife but the mask thing is a needless distraction. There are all sorts of other things you can be doing instead.

Obviously, looking out for the wife is a major part of it.

In a broader sense, I'm looking out for our society.

If looks fairly clear that Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea are winning the war against Covid. It does not look as if the war is being won in the West.

What Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea have in common is that their approach is individual-based. It is using what could be called surgical strikes -- extensive testing, accurate tracking of infected individuals, selective quarantines of those who are known or suspected to be infected. Masks, in my opinion, are an important part of that individual mandate, but we can disagree about that and the rest still stands.

What the West is doing is city-based. Testing is haphazard and sloppy, tracking of infected individuals is haphazard and sloppy, and entire cities are being locked down without any clear knowledge of how many people in them are infected. It's an aggregate approach that leaves the individual out of the equation. While the Eastern nations are doing targetted surgical strikes, the Western nations are doing something akin to chopping an onion with a medieval halberd.

The Western approach is demonstrably less effective, even while it's more devastating to our economies. In South Korea, even at the height of the epidemic, most people were able to go to work. In North America we are already into double-digit unemployment numbers, and it may get a whole lot worse before it gets better. And our societies are not equipped for it. Just in the last day, I have read and/or watched news articles about people bypassing/violating/ignoring lockdowns in: Palermo, Paris, Miami, Los Angeles, Vancouver. We do, or at least we did, have the resources to do what Taiwan did, quarantining and tracking suspected carriers, shutting down large-scale gathering places but not entire cities, having moderate social distancing that doesn't prevent people from going to work. We do not, and likely never will, have the resources to enforce these large-scale lockdowns. They depend on the goodwill of the public, which so far has been remarkably strong, but won't last forever. We got lucky that it's been cold and rainy across much of the northern hemisphere. When nice weather comes, go see how many people you will find packed in to the Bois de Boulogne or Hyde Park or the National Mall.

[jimboston]

I made no bet, but it's not looking good for you. Deaths slowing down now in Europe, gaining momentum fast in the U.S.

I know Saxi “tricked’ you into this conversation, sorta...

... but if you just read the last couple statements from each of you it sound like you’re happy the death count is rising.


I know that’s not you... don’t let yourself be baited by Saxi. He doesn’t even believe most of the shit he types anyway.

[mrswdk]

Obviously, looking out for the wife is a major part of it.

In a broader sense, I'm looking out for our society.

If looks fairly clear that Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea are winning the war against Covid. It does not look as if the war is being won in the West.

What Taiwan, Singapore, and South Korea have in common is that their approach is individual-based. It is using what could be called surgical strikes -- extensive testing, accurate tracking of infected individuals, selective quarantines of those who are known or suspected to be infected. Masks, in my opinion, are an important part of that individual mandate, but we can disagree about that and the rest still stands.

What the West is doing is city-based. Testing is haphazard and sloppy, tracking of infected individuals is haphazard and sloppy, and entire cities are being locked down without any clear knowledge of how many people in them are infected. It's an aggregate approach that leaves the individual out of the equation. While the Eastern nations are doing targetted surgical strikes, the Western nations are doing something akin to chopping an onion with a medieval halberd.

The Western approach is demonstrably less effective, even while it's more devastating to our economies. In South Korea, even at the height of the epidemic, most people were able to go to work. In North America we are already into double-digit unemployment numbers, and it may get a whole lot worse before it gets better. And our societies are not equipped for it. Just in the last day, I have read and/or watched news articles about people bypassing/violating/ignoring lockdowns in: Palermo, Paris, Miami, Los Angeles, Vancouver. We do, or at least we did, have the resources to do what Taiwan did, quarantining and tracking suspected carriers, shutting down large-scale gathering places but not entire cities, having moderate social distancing that doesn't prevent people from going to work. We do not, and likely never will, have the resources to enforce these large-scale lockdowns. They depend on the goodwill of the public, which so far has been remarkably strong, but won't last forever. We got lucky that it's been cold and rainy across much of the northern hemisphere. When nice weather comes, go see how many people you will find packed in to the Bois de Boulogne or Hyde Park or the National Mall.

Oh yeah masks do help, for sure. People who are carrying COVID-19 but not yet showing symptoms are far, far less likely to spread COVID to other people if they're wearing a mask properly, which is pretty important given how infections COVID is and that people can be walking around with it for 1 week+ before they even realise they have it. They're just not (by themselves) a tool for healthy people to prevent themselves catching it.

Agree with you also on the testing/tracking being done in Europe/the US not being as sufficient as that done in Korea, Singapore etc. Europe/the US have also been slower to react full stop. Just look at the current dithering among the US federal government despite the fact they've leap-frogged the UK and are rapidly heading for an Italy/Spain situation:

https://www.statista.com/chart/21176/co ... tal-cases/

Japan and China have also done pretty good jobs. China is now lifting its lockdowns across most of the country and Japan has (somehow) never even needed one to begin with. Apparently in Japan's case there was a pretty immediate public response to the first cases (in the form of masks, hand sanitisers everywhere etc.) which has helped:

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/ ... ntRiYj7SUk

I always used to think it was funny how germophobic east Asian societies can be, but maybe they were right all along.

[jimboston]

I always used to think it was funny how germophobic east Asian societies can be, but maybe they were right all along.

Really?

Ok, I’m gonna generalize here a bit... I KNOW this is a generalization and doesn’t apply universally...

Asian people are generally not shy about wearing masks... here in Massachusetts / Rhode Island the firsts people I saw wearing masks when this outbreak started were Asian (presumably Chinese)... definitely the minority back in February. Shit... even before this if you walked through Chinatown in Boston or NYC you’d occasionally see some Asian person wearing a mask.

That said... the most germaphobic?

Not by a long shot... not if you associate cleanliness with germaphobia!

Speaking specifically for Boston and NYC... the dirtiest, most disgusting part of the city is always Chinatown. There’s more litter and garbage there, and it’s stinkier, and not from the food... from the garbage and trash on the sidewalks and streets. No debate, this is a fact. It’s got nothing to do with the city not ‘cleaning’. It’s got to do with the population... perhaps the density of people is a factor, but other parts of the city are equally dense and not as disgusting.

You see more garbage litter than trash litter.

in other dense parts of town (North End in Boston, which is the traditional Italian area), they are equally dense and have a lot of restaurants also. Yet you’ll see restaurants send out their own workers throughout the day to ‘police’ and sweep the sidewalk and curb in front of their store. You just DO NOT see that in Chinatown.

In Chinatown in Boston I have seen people pee in public and yes... once I saw a guy (Chinese/Asian) take a shit in the middle of the day in an alley!!! I’m sure you get people pee in the North End too... coming out of restaurant drunk or whatever... but if caught he’s getting his ass kicked. In Chinatown people ignore it.

Saying they’re ‘germaphobic’ is not true... or perhaps they are, but only after the fact and not in a preemptive manner.

[mrswdk]

'Chinatown in NYC is dirty therefore east Asian societies are not cleanly'.

lol, k.

[saxitoxin]

I made no bet

So just bluster and hopefulness then? Got it.

You heard it here first - Duk is willing to spout all sorts of nonsense when there are no consequences; attach even the most minor commitment and he wilts like a daisy in the Savannah summer.

[Dukasaur]

I made no bet, but it's not looking good for you. Deaths slowing down now in Europe, gaining momentum fast in the U.S.

I know Saxi “tricked’ you into this conversation, sorta...

... but if you just read the last couple statements from each of you it sound like you’re happy the death count is rising.


I know that’s not you... don’t let yourself be baited by Saxi. He doesn’t even believe most of the shit he types anyway.

Yeah, you're right, and I'm not happy about how I ended up sounding. For the record, I'm not happy that the death toll is rising. I'm sad for all human suffering, from this cause or from any other cause. For that matter, I'm sad about all suffering, whether human or animal or alien. It's a cruel and vicious universe we live in, and we should all have each other's backs.

Unfortunately, when you get some venomous prick like saxi constantly crowing about how Americans are so much better than Europeans, you just naturally want something to wipe that evil smirk off his face. So, sadly, yeah, I guess responding to it did bring out the worst in me.

I know you've posted that he's just joking, and the Greekdog has posted the same thesis, but I don't believe it. Saxi has been 100% consistent over the years. He celebrates every right-wing thug -- Assad, Putin, Bolsonaro, Trump -- and he pisses all over any liberal or kind-hearted person he can find. Nobody could be that consistently hateful for that many years if he didn't really mean it.

[saxitoxin]

Unfortunately, when you get some venomous prick like saxi constantly crowing about how Americans are so much better than Europeans, you just naturally want something to wipe that evil smirk off his face.

Well keep looking because you shit the bed on your last attempt.

Here are today's figures, Nostradamus ... no bets or commitments from you, just insane predictions you'll never be held accountable for when they fail and which you can spout without any consequence ...

Deaths per 1MM People

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

1. Europe (Italy) - 113 (No Change)
2. Europe (Spain) - 74 +14
3. Iran - 24 +1
4. Europe (Netherlands) - 20 +4
5. Europe (Switzerland) - 18 +4
6. Europe (France) - 16 (No Change)
7. Europe (Belgium) - 16 +5
8. Europe (Luxembourg) - 13 (No Change)
9. Europe (UK) - 7 +1
10. Europe (Denmark) - 6 (No Change)
...
20. United States - 2 (No Change)

Thank you, President Trump, for decisively taking the early decision to close our borders with China when WHO and Europe said that was a bad move!

[Dukasaur]

Duk is willing to spout all sorts of nonsense when there are no consequences, attach even the most minor commitment and he wilts.

You're the one posting nonsense.

First you claimed that America would be safe from the virus, due to Trump's usurpation of dictatorial powers:
Subject: Trump Invokes War Powers to Prepare for China Virus

The president has decisively acted and invoked the Defense Production Act for the first time since the Korean War. The president will now be able to nationalize critical industrial resources and redirect civil manufactuting to produce masks, medications, weaponry, and police supplies as he deems necessary for the Republic to survive the coming storm.

https://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.p ... 8220&gfv=1

All obeisance is owed to Trump!

Surely that article must be mistaken. I've heard Trump say that coronavirus is "very much under control" in the U.S.

It is. And with his decisive action it'll be kept that way.

China Virus Cases

South Korea - 2,022 cases
European Union - 723 cases
Japan - 186 cases
United States - 60 cases

You even said "obeisance" revealing your true motives.

Then when it turned out that it takes more than usurpation of power to keep the nation safe, you switched gears. As the number of cases in the U.S. skyrocketed, you did a little hand-waving and switched from claiming that the U.S. would be safe to claiming that the number of deaths was trivial.

Actually, the U.S. has no idea how many cases it has. It could be 20 cases per million, or it could be 2,000 per million. Since testing has been so sporadic, nobody really knows.

This is true of all countries. However, body counts are unambiguous and there are thousands of corpses in Europe and a bit north of 100 in the U.S.

Now that those have shot up from 100 to almost 800 in one week, you want to switch to deaths per million?

[list]Deaths per 1MM People

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

Now that the death toll is starting to skyrocket again and prove your second claim bogus, you want to move the goalposts again and claim it's a trivial number of deaths per million. But you're hoisted by your own petard, because by switching to that standard you're now equal to China. Deaths per million in the U.S. is 2.4, exactly equal to China.

Checkmate.