More 911 problems.Twin Towers. this government says pancaked

[Snorri1234]

GEEESE can you make any longer post?

Is that a challenge?

[soundout9]

GEEESE can you make any longer post?

Is that a challenge?

Maybe....im not going to though

[Dancing Mustard]

it means that 20 seconds ago your buddies said that the buildings came down the way this government says it did, but know there not so sure.



lol

Aren't they? This man looks pretty sure:

Sorry to have to break this to you but......






http://propagandamatrix.com/articles/oc ... admits.htm


NIST Admits Total Collapse Of Twin Towers Unexplainable
Implicitly acknowledges controlled demolition only means by which towers could have fallen at free fall speed

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet
Tuesday, October 16, 2007



The National Institute for Standards and Technology has been forced to admit that the total free-fall collapse of the twin towers cannot be explained after an exhaustive scientific study, implicitly acknowledging that controlled demolition is the only means by which the buildings could have come down.

In a recent letter (PDF link) to 9/11 victim's family representatives Bill Doyle and Bob McIlvaine, NIST states, "We are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."

A 10,000 page scientific study only offers theories as to how the "collapse initiation" proceeded and fails to address how it was possible for part of a WTC structure to fall through the path of most resistance at freefall speed, completely violating the accepted laws of physics.

In addition, NIST's own studies confirmed that virtually none of the steel in either tower reached temperatures hotter than 500 degrees. The point at which steel weakens is 1000 degrees and melting point is reached at 1,500 degrees, according to NIST itself.

"NIST'S 10,000-page report purports to explain what it calls "collapse initiation" -- the loss of several floors' vertical support," writes Kevin Barrett of Scholars for 9/11 Truth. "In order to dream up this preposterous scenario, NIST had to ignore its own tests that showed that virtually none of the steel got hotter than 500 degrees f. It had to claim that somehow the planes took out many core columns, despite the fact that only a direct hit by an engine would have been likely to do so, and that the chances of this happening even once are fairly low. It had to preposterously allege that the plane that nicked the corner of the South Tower took out more core columns than the one that hit the North Tower almost dead center. It had to tweak all the parameters till they screamed bloody murder and say that the steel was far weaker than it actually was, the fire was far hotter than it actually was, the sagging was far greater than it actually was, and so on. And so NIST hallucinated a computer-generated fantasy scenario for "collapse initiation"--the failure of a few floors."

"But how do you get from the failure of a few floors to total collapse at free-fall speed of the entire structure? The short answer: You don't. Anyone with the slightest grasp of the laws of physics understands that even if all of the vertical supports on a few floors somehow failed catastrophically at exactly the same moment--a virtually impossible event, but one necessary to explain why the Towers would come straight down rather than toppling sideways--the top part of the building could not fall THROUGH the still-intact, highly robust lower part of the building, straight through the path of most resistance, just as fast as it would have fallen through thin air."

"Thus total free-fall collapse, even given NIST's ridiculous "initiation" scenario, is utterly impossible. The probability of it happening is exactly equal to the probability of the whole building suddenly falling upward and landing on the moon," concludes Barrett.
NIST have yet to properly address the sudden freefall collapse of WTC Building 7, which imploded on the late afternoon of 9/11 despite not being hit by a jetliner.





So if this government doesnt know how the buildings came down does that mean you dont either?

lol

But it still doesn't mean that if a bean falls in the forest it doesn't make a sound
























Where are the pictures of that sound??












Can this man find a picture of that sound?:

I've been taking a lot of public transportation lately because parking downtown is prohibitively expensive, and unlike some people i know, i don't feel like moving a vehicle every couple of hours to avoid a ticket. thus, i come into contact with an extraordinary number of people. it blows my fucking mind how easy it is for people to get in my way. sometimes i feel like there is a vendetta against me, explicitly stating that if i am walking behind you, you will suddenly halt suddenly and do something worthlessly random like check your purse, causing me to almost stumble over you. and you have the fucking nerve to give me an evil eye as i stare you down? f*ck you bitch. this happened today.


listen, i'm not racist. i have chinese friends -- which proves it. in fact, this example isn't even specifically about "chinese high school girls". you can replace "chinese" with "asian" because all asians act the same, just like how they all look the same. but mostly, it's girls. girls who wear a lot of make up, tight jeans with the pant cuffs tucked into UGG boots -- the ugliest fucking boots in the world. i don't understand how an entire demographic of people (asians) who are supposed to be the smartest people in the world (asians) can be so fucking unaware of other people in the same vacinity as them. you don't own the street bitch. next time you stop like that, i will absolutely crush you until you shit out of your mouth.


















lol lol lol





If he can't then where are your car keys?

What about this man, is he not sure?

Anyway lets move onto the review of T.I.'s latest album "Urban Legend". Last year T.I. dropped "Trap Muzik, which in my mind was a damn-near classic album. Featuring some hot azz beats, tight lyrics and some uplifting songs T.I. really impressed me. One knock on that album many people had is that at times he talked a little too much about drug dealing. However just because he's talking about hustlin' or the "trap" doesn't
mean its all negative. He had songs telling others not to try and be like him, and choose education, as well as spitting introspective rhymes about being in the trap and the outside perception people have of hustlers as cold heartless @ssholes. Others have a problem with T.I.'s cockyness. He makes it clear that he thinks of himself as the king, and if you think otherwise you are liable to p!ss him off, which is the case in his beef with Lil' Flip. However since I think Lil' Flip can't rhymes for sh!t I am not gonna waste breath on that "beef".

This time around the Bankhead native lightens up his subject matter a bit. That is a good thing for the most part, but at times it can create problems, which is a case for a few songs here. Without wasting anymore time, let's get into T.I.'s latest album.

Did this man do his own tests?





The compact fluorescent light bulb revolution nearly occurred back in the early 1990s. When CFLs first hit the market in force, consumers bought them in large numbers — but they hated them. The bulbs were too big for many fixtures, expensive (up to $25 each) and they threw a dim, antiseptic light that paled next to the warmth of good old-fashioned incandescent bulbs.

Now, a new CFL revolution is at hand. Retail giants are pushing hard for the bulbs — Wal-Mart hopes to sell 100 million CFLs by the end of the year. In California, a legislator recently proposed banning the sale of incandescent light bulbs in the state by 2012. All the old benefits of CFLs are still significant — more so, in fact. They can use less than one-third the electricity of incandescent bulbs of equivalent brightness and last up to nine years. The new bulbs are smaller and far cheaper (about $5 each) than their predecessors, and more powerful than ever. Top-end 24-watt bulbs promise brightness equivalent to that of a 150-watt incandescent.

Still, when it comes to illuminating your home, brightness isn’t everything. Can CFLs match the light quality of the energy-wasting incandescents we know and love?

Popular Mechanics designed a test pitting seven common CFLs against a 75-watt incandescent bulb. To gather objective data, we used a Konica Minolta CL-200 chroma meter to measure color temperature and brightness, and a Watts up? Pro ammeter to track power consumption. Our subjective data came from a double-blind test with three PM staffers and Jesse Smith, a lighting expert from Parsons The New School for Design, in Manhattan. We put our participants in a color-neutral room and asked them to examine colorful objects, faces and reading material, then rate the bulbs’ performance.

The results surprised us. Even though the incandescent bulb measured slightly brighter than the equivalent CFLs, our subjects didn’t see any dramatic difference in brightness. And here was the real shocker: When it came to the overall quality of the light, all the CFLs scored higher than our incandescent control bulb. In other words, the new fluorescent bulbs aren’t just better for both your wallet and the environment, they produce better light.



Where's your Ron Paul now? Is he going back and re-reading?

I get a lot of questions about where to live. It’s not an easy decision and even harder to give ‘long distance advice’. There are several criteria to keep in mind however.

In a nutshell, they are -

Water - Climate change will only worsen the already limited supply of fresh water in most areas. Cities that are dependent upon an influx of fresh water will be particularly vulnerable. This also requires huge amounts of electricity, a resource that will also be declining. This applies to all of the Southwest in particular.

Abundant fresh water will be a top priority for millions and millions who scramble to avoid the parched conditions to come. Some areas have natural sources of localized water, others don’t. Pick one that does.

Climate - This is a hard one to predict due to climate change, but whatever trends are already showing now can be projected into the future (to be worse). Areas that are warming on average year-to-year will heat up even more. Areas that are flooding will probably flood again. Most areas in the U.S. seem to be drying up, which partly helps explain the immigration into Canada and the desire to flee the fascist U.S. agenda.

Population - The higher the population, the more problems an area can be expected to have during the collapse. This is a simple supply and demand issue. On the one hand, cities will receive more goods then rural areas due to their higher population, at least for a time, but their ability to do for themselves (grow their own) will be highly limited or impossible. Availability could soon be a major problem and the ability to do for yourself (grow your own) will be very limited and dangerous.

The demand for essentials, such as food, water, and usable soils will be inadequate during the crash. Cities exist now because of massive imports, this is now all threatened and will be greatly reduced in the future. The likelihood that there will simply not be enough to go around anymore is very high.

The lack of suitable soil, room, safety and water, plus the expected police state controls will make cities very dangerous places to be. Gangs, already there and new ones to be, will control everything they can. Opposing this (unsuccessfully) will be a police state, which will impose controls on only the ‘lawful’ citizens (which is how it actually works now) making things worse for them. In between will be the gray zones, the cracks where vast numbers of people will try to eke out their existence. This gray zone will expand tremendously and give rise to all type of issues - a vast black market, extortion, bribery, thievery and assault.

Distancing yourself from all this will be as essential as food. If you stay, you will eventually succumb to gangs (including work gangs), the police state controls or starvation. Those that “survive the city” will have to give up more then their freedom, they will give up their autonomy, ability to travel, self-sufficiency and most of the hours of their lives as they’re inducted into the Fatherland.

I cannot in good faith recommend staying in the city for anyone. Many are making such plans, believing that they will be better off somehow. I cannot agree, these will be the worst locations of all. Cities exist now because of the sheer number of imports required to keep them alive and functioning. They do not produce the essential goods that are needed to even feed themselves. This will be very clear during the collapse as life reduces itself down to the basics.

Soils - Usable soil for growing things and the room to grow them is key for future survival. Food storage alone won’t keep you and your family alive indefinitely (although you will certainly need this), you will need to learn to grow your own food, or participate with others that are growing food.

Food health comes from soil health. Many soils can be improved over time, but it’s best to start with good soil, you may not have the time you think. Composting and natural fertilizers, such a rabbit manure will help immensely. Start now.

Resources - The need for available local resources, particularly wood will be more and more acute. Barren areas, or areas covered with asphalt and concrete will be utterly useless. Wood is renewable and will be used for almost everything.

Water is renewable but will be affected by climate change. Locating in a river drainage will help assure you a source of water. These water sources won’t go away overnight, but remote drainage areas where the rivers run for many miles might. Avoid deep wells, power will be problematic or impossible in many locations. Water that is accessible from hand pumps or the surface will be much more reliable and does not require electricity or energy to obtain.

Local food production will be essential as global crops decline. Crop production requires suitable soils, climate and adequate water, plus the need to safeguard crops. This will include damage for pests, which are sure to change (increase) due to climate change. The latter two will be the hardest to ensure, human and non-human pests. In some areas, crops will be overrun by hordes of hungry people who will have great difficulty in restraining themselves as food runs out. This will result in widespread damage and destruction and worsen an already bad food situation.

Distribution of crops is yet another issue. Transportation will be limited and distribution of crop production and essential goods will be restricted. Cities will probably receive a higher priority then rural areas, but that doesn’t necessarily mean the food will actually arrive.

Local farmers will quite probably take care of their own, first and foremost. This makes sense as food shortages will be acute everywhere. There will also be ‘incentives’ from rural residents to ensure that they are not left out of the food production loop (armed gangs).

Ecovillages, self-sustaining homesteads and farmers will all be targets for masses of people who will lack adequate nutrition. This appears to be a hugely overlooked issue. It will be nearly impossible to protect and secure their food production when the trucks stop running. There is simply no way to do so without an ‘army’.

The need for individualized food production, cooperative farms and land share agreements is essential. Only by having a vested interest (personalized) in the outcome of the seasonal production of food will the food supply be sufficient, protected, and affordable. Maybe.

The mega farms will fail as soon as the government subsidies and protections stop. They will probably receive huge allotments of oil-based resources (fuel and fertilizers) but this is not expected to be sufficient to keep them going forever. They are also dependent upon the same needs everyone else has today - a functioning market place; a national infrastructure and distribution network; an agreeable climate; and a just in time delivery system to move ready-harvests from fields to market and all stops in between. None of these can be counted on in the future, making their viability very questionable.

Rural Areas - Rural areas offer the best collapse “steads” (crash-steads) of all. They offer lower populations, better soils, better climate, more water (in general), available forest (usually) and local resources and most of all - localized food production in the form of farms and ranches. There is also a lower police state presence, which will be a huge factor in the years to come as governments (city, state and federal) attempt to retain control (and failing).

They have their drawbacks too - inflexible (to outsiders), tight-knit, wary of ‘outsiders’, difficulty in integration, long distances to stores, jobs and other resources, limited employment opportunities and limited services (comparatively speaking). Despite these, collapse will still be more survivable in the rural areas then in the cities. Greater autonomy and freedom will exist their due to their sheer size, population numbers and opportunities for self-sufficiency. Plus the sheer need to keep the rural areas going to feed the cities will permit more flexibility there among the residents. They will likely get ‘first pick’ of the food production from crops and ranches too and will keep for themselves what they need, despite any “authority” attempting to dictate otherwise. Food shortages will make for self-imposed “authority” and rule.

Remote Areas - Crash will bring out the very worst in many people. As food supplies dry up, the anxiety and fear will explode into extreme violence and death. This is the die-off period when people will be forced to hardscrabble lives in a desperate attempt to stay alive. No place on earth will be entirely safe. The competition for essential resources will be “intense”. Make no mistake, violence will rule the day, period. This will occur at any time during the collapse period and can logically be thought to be the worst at the deepest point of collapse when lawlessness prevails.

This will be the time of “every man for himself” and will be the most difficult period of all to survive. Starvation will be acute and compounding this will be extremely ruthless people who will make life extremely difficult. Do not underestimate the violence anyone is capable of.

Remote areas are areas that are extremely limited in population and offer the best in security, privacy and ‘aloneness’ with the least amount of threat from your fellow citizens. These areas can be found all over the world and are located far away from major and small populations. They will remain small in population due to the sheer distance from others.

Remote forested retreats and tiny hamlets, cabins and sheltered outposts will be the best protected of all. Their drawbacks are many however despite these advantages. They offer no support (injuries and sickness will be a big factor), must be fully stockpiled and supplied prior to the crash and will probably remain isolated forever.

Post-crash means they will still be isolated, only more so. Whatever supplies they have is all they will have for the duration (forever). Outside trade will be limited, but probably not entirely impossible, once this resumes among the post-crash survivors.

They will also be the only places that will offer relatively safe self-sufficiency and crop production during the crash period. Their remoteness offers them the protection they need without a standing army to guard their production. On the other hand, their isolation means less hands to help, so it will be a hard life nonetheless.

Pre-Collapse, Collapse and Post-Collapse - As previously noted on this blog, the coming crash requires a unique response for the different stages of collapse. Pre-collapse, collapse and post-collapse have different effects and responses.

The danger is in assuming that everything will remain the same as it is today. The safety and security we’ve all come to expect is one primary area. Material abundance and availability of essential goods and supplies, including their distribution and transportation is another major area of concern. None of these should be ‘assumed’ as being available in the future, because all are integral to the availability of cheap energy, livable climate and abundant water supplies.

Since all of these are now threatened, the need to make preparations in advance is obvious. During the pre-collapse phase, they are still relatively affordable and available, although that is rapidly changing (daily). During collapse, their scarcity and price will make them difficult if not quite impossible to obtain. Post-collapse survivors will also find them to be absolutely ‘priceless’ as their production and manufacture will probably be long gone.

Preserving and protecting these assets becomes problematic. Right now, it’s legal to stockpile goods, but this could and probably will change rapidly. Hoarding will be outlawed as the world finds itself experiencing acute shortages. This won’t stop people from doing it however, it will just mean the government is trying to impose control and will be largely ignored.

It’s worthwhile to note that the wealthy are already moving their assets into gold, silver, euros and essentials goods. They’re not alone either. Anyone who is paying attention to the warning signs around the world is doing the same thing, but as noted on this blog, this is still a very tiny percentage of the population, which is going to make the crash even harder then it should be.

During the collapse stage, the problem of individual safety will be most pronounced. Finding a safe place to be where your neighbors don’t attack you or steal you blind will be pretty difficult. Building trusting relationships now will help, but not entirely prevent this problem. You will just never know when you’ve become a liability instead of an asset.

I know this sounds very pessimistic, but anyone that doubts this only needs to look around now at how neighbors treat each other. Reliance upon each other only works based upon mutual need and trust. When either of these are broken or determined no longer to be necessary, you will be at risk. An easily example is as follows:

Your neighbor’s extended family decides to come live with your neighbor, who can’t really refuse because they are after all, blood-relatives. Suddenly, your crash-stead preparations prepared in conjunction with your neighbor have increased demands by 400%. The extended family brings nothing other then hungry mouths - neither skills, experience or supplies. Despite your agreements not to do this, your neighbor relents to family pressures.

In time, the strain upon your crash preparations is unbearable and creates unresolvable tensions between all of you. Something or somebody snaps and suddenly, lives are in jeopardy (or already buried). Agreements are out the window as blood is thicker then any promises made.

Situations like this happen all the time even now. The reality is very few people in the general population are preparing and instead are relying upon others to keep them alive. Nor are they building trusting relationships. Right now, they are entirely reliant upon the supermarkets, farmers and national infrastructure and distribution system, all extremely depending upon cheap energy, fast disappearing. During the crash, it will be YOU that they will turn to (or on), remembering your previously shared warnings and preparations plans you told them about.

Saying “No” will be extremely difficult and will jeopardize the most carefully laid plans. Think this through now because you are certain to have to face it later.

The crash-stead will need to be prepared for many things, including situations like the above. This location will also need to stay out of sight, hidden and quiet during the the troubled times. This will be the time when hunger has forced people to act violently. It will be easier to avoid this then try to fight this, although you should fully expect that too. People who rob, steal, rape and kill are everyday kind of people, forced into extreme situations of personal survival because of extreme hardship and desperation. This is already happening now - see this link - The Death Mask of War for what is happening with American soldiers who will soon be coming home to America.

During the collapse of Argentina, carrying a handgun was very common place anytime you dealt with other people, especially when trying to travel or engage in any sort of trade. This was also common of course on the American frontier when lawlessness meant that dangerous people were about. Anyone not versed in various firearms had better immediately do so.

The crash-stead will need to be properly equipped and supplied to survive the duration of the crash. It will be unsafe except for remote areas to homestead and raise your own food during this time period. You and everyone else doing this will become a target. This is most unfortunate, because it creates several problems. Keeping your seeds viable will mean keeping at least some crop production in operation. Keeping your livestock alive will mean the same thing.

This means the crash-stead should be hidden and defended. I can see no other way to successfully ensure the essentials of seeds and livestock will be alive for the post-crash period. It’s very hard for people to envision the extreme hunger to come, but history does have examples of what this has been like. Jared Diamond points out in his book, “Collapse”, that Easter Island destroyed their entire ecological base and ate everything in sight before turning to cannibalism, and even that didn’t last long.

There is simply no way the future world without cheap, portable energy can even remotely feed 6.5+ billion people. Starvation and violence will be the result. We can pretend otherwise and wish it were not true, but we would only find out that we were horribly wrong. Population overshoot is a very real and extreme problem, only permitted by the abundance of cheap energy and a global distribution system. This is collapsing NOW.

Surviving Collapse

Those who are prepared to “go the distance” for the coming collapse stand the best chance of survival. Half-hearted measures will not work. Attempting to hang onto this present lifestyle will not work. A 3-day food supply will not work. Wishful thinking will not work. The world is about to experience what has happened many times before.

It’s very hard for people to realize just how incredibly stupid civilization has been. Building a modern society on finite resources and then failing to accept it’s finality or shortsightedness, let alone do anything about it has been suicidal. We’re committing speciescide of our own race. Worse, we destroyed the ecological base along the way where we obtain our sustenance.

The world is presently overpopulated by the billions. We obtained this surplus through sheer folly and shortsightedness, a.k.a “greed”. There is a valid reason why overpopulation of this magnitude never appeared in human history before. No other civilization before ours exploited the oil reserves that were tens of thousands of years in existence, predating all human life and converted them into agriculture and global transportation system.

But we did, and we built a overpopulated world that polluted, raped, destroyed it’s natural carrying capacity to such a degree that human life itself is now threatened. We became so accustomed to this temporary ‘abundance’ that we fooled ourselves into believing it would last forever. We were dead wrong.

Surviving the collapse will mean we must first stop lying to ourselves. And we must stop listening to the lies being spouted off by others. Neither the media nor the government will be honest enough to tell the truth, yet are making their own secret preparations without telling you. Ignoring the hype, false promises, “vaporware” and empty platitudes that everything is going to be ok is important. Everything is NOT OK and its past time we started acting like it was true.

You will need the right attitude, knowledge, skills, experience and supplies to survive the collapse. And you will also need a lot of luck, determination and sound judgment. Nobody will be unaffected and the majority of us do not have wads of cash to “throw at the problem” as some do. Those that do will survive right up until their protectors realize that they can have it all for themselves. Anyone who refuses to learn the skills necessary will last only as long as their money is considered valuable.

Beyond this, you will need to start making responsible decisions for your future today, as in right now. Delay only means you are one day closer to that period of irrecoverable and permanent loss. Time is no longer on our side, we cannot recover the days, months and years we pondered and pontificated wondering what we should do. We are now being forced to choose IF we should live, or whether we shall die.

Reality

If we do not choose, and the majority won’t, the choice has already been made for them and their fate is already signed, sealed and delivered. Denial, disbelief and argumentation will not change the outcome one iota. This is the bed humanity has made, now we will either sleep in it or stay up late at night, on watch, awake and alert and making ready.

I find myself unable to truly convey the reality of our future. Americans have not known suffering of this magnitude at any time. The death of entire planetary civilization will happen in just a few years. The scale and magnitude of this disaster of our own making is nearly incomprehensible to the human mind. We are not faced with a single calamity, which we could probably endure, but multiple, simultaneous calamities of global proportions.

Peak oil means peak civilization as global energy supplies collapse to pre-industrial levels. Oil, coal, natural gas and even renewables such as hydroelectric power will disappear entirely within the next century. The ability to recreate these sources of energy will disappear when the oil is gone.

Climate change is even bigger as it will force the relocation and starvation of hundreds of millions of people. Rising sea levels are already displacing nations such as Bangladesh. The forced relocations, diminishing food productions and dramatic temperature swings will have tremendous impacts on human populations and will also create many new emerging diseases.

Ecological disasters are already making their impacts felt worldwide. The destruction of the Amazon rain forest, deforestation, collapsing fisheries and the still rising levels of pollution which is quite literally off the charts has created untenable ecological conditions for future humans and all other forms of life. We will experience the catastrophic decline of our environment despite our futile and feeble attempts of “too little, too late”. This is the warning we have ignored for decades now, and we are about to experience the REALITY in the worst possible way. We have little time to prepare for it and have long been our own worst enemy in doing so.

Only those who are either incredibly resourceful (experienced) and lucky, or those who have made adequate preparations and obtained the skills, training and experience necessary can be considered “collapse survivors” at this point in time. The kumbaya future and collaboration some espouse is woefully misrepresenting the reality of 6.5 billion hungry starving humans looking for something to eat. They will quite literally, tear this world apart. Collaboration IS essential and necessary, but it will be short circuited by many converging events and situations.

Do everything you can now. The old saw that says “hope for the best, but prepare for the worst” has never been more true then it is right now. Don’t delay another minute. Do what is necessary and remain focused on the tasks at hand. Kill your television (I can’t say that enough) and take your future into your own hands. Only you can make the difference (and changes) that is needed.

For centuries, people have puzzled over lemmings, the northern rodents whose populations surge and crash so quickly and so regularly that they inspired an enduring myth: that lemmings commit mass suicide when their numbers grow too large, eagerly pitching themselves off cliffs to their death in a foamy sea.

Scientists debunked that notion decades ago. But they have never been certain what causes the rapid boom-and-bust cycles that gave rise to it. Now, in a study of collared lemmings in Greenland, being published today in the journal Science, a team of European researchers report that the reason has nothing to do with self-annihilation and everything to do with hungry predators.

After 15 years of research, the scientists report, they discovered that the actions of four predator species -- snowy owls, seabirds called long-tailed skuas, arctic foxes and weasel-like creatures known as stoats -- create the four-year cycles during which lemming populations explode and then nearly disappear.

Scientists say such cycles have been an enduring -- and hotly debated -- mystery in ecology. ''There have been several dozen hypotheses, and sometimes everybody was almost killing each other they were sticking so close to their hypothesis,'' said Dr. Olivier Gilg, an ecologist at the University of Helsinki in Finland who is an author of the paper.

Many suspected the cycles might be caused by an array of forces, Dr. Gilg said, ''but we were able to explain this cycle with only predation, and that was very surprising; it was very exciting.''

Dr. Peter J. Hudson, a population ecologist at Pennsylvania State University who was not involved with the work but who wrote a commentary for Science on the paper, said that population cycles are also found in birds, insects and larger mammals, like lynxes.

Though their research deals with brown six-inch rodents, ecologists can be forgiven their excitement. Lemming population cycles have long captured the human imagination. In Scandinavia, ancient sagas describe lemming outbreaks, and as early as the 1500's there were writings attempting to explain why lemmings would periodically overrun regions, some suggesting that the animals rained down from the sky.

Recently, scientists have tested more plausible explanations, including climate change and the idea that the quality of plants eaten by lemmings might vary cyclically or that high densities might stress lemmings, decreasing their ability to reproduce and causing populations to crash. Even sunspots had been proposed as a possible cause.

In the new study, researchers took advantage of Greenland's never-ending daylight in summer to do extended observations of predators. The open tundra environment also allowed the small, skittering rodents to be seen and counted easily.

The scientists found that the tundra provided an excess of food and of sandy soil to burrow in, a setting for fast lemming population growth.

But when lemming numbers began to soar, foxes, skuas and owls began eating them in greater and greater quantity. A pair of snowy owls can bring back as many as 50 lemmings a day for their hungry nestlings.

Stoats specialize in hunting lemmings, and after a banner lemming year, stoat populations explode, decimating the lemmings the following year. Then the four-year cycle begins all over again.

When researchers created a model to predict lemming populations, based only on the behavior of their four predators, they found that the model precisely predicted nature's four-year fluctuations in numbers.

Despite the new finding, lemming scientists expect to continue to be plagued by suicide queries. In particular, they blame a 1958 Walt Disney nature film, ''White Wilderness,'' in which lemmings were shown hurling themselves off a cliff.

In 1983 a Canadian documentary, ''Cruel Camera,'' about abuse of animals in movies, asserted that the scene was faked, using lemmings bought from Eskimo children and herded into the water. That conclusion has come to be widely accepted, and yesterday Rena Langley, a spokeswoman for the Walt Disney Company, did not dispute it.

''We have done extensive research into what happened more than 40 years ago,'' she said, ''but have been unable to determine exactly what techniques were used in producing 'White Wilderness.' The standards and techniques were certainly different then than they are now.''

Dude!


That post was even longer than mine!




But it still doesn't change the fact that Ron Paul fucked up the twin-towers bigstyle. Fact.

I DEMAND ANSWERS






















Also, you posting pics would be cool to.

GEEESE can you make any longer post?

Sure I can, I'd just quote you underneath it.


It's a bit like asking 'whats bigger than infinity' and me replying 'infinity plus one'.



Ahhh, good times...

[xtratabasco]

this is why it stays on top

[Iliad]

this is why it stays on top

no it stays on top because a person will see this thread completely debunk your theory. Then another person, and it goes on and on. And once this thread dies you start another one and you bump this one. That's how all these threads stay on top

[xtratabasco]

this is why it stays on top

no it stays on top because a person will see this thread completely debunk your theory. Then another person, and it goes on and on. And once this thread dies you start another one and you bump this one. That's how all these threads stay on top

Fact remains NIST says they cant explain it other than comparing it to implostions.

[Backglass]

[xtratabasco]

great idea for halloween

[xtratabasco]

Ok here is what happened.

There are terrorists in the world who hate america and with people like you there i don't blame them. They decided to kill a big amount of Americans. You following so far? They hop in a plane and crash it into the towers thus achieving their goal of killing the americans.

gee if 19 kids with buck fifty box cutters kicked our asses with no military, not even a row boat and brought the "steel" buildings down we should just surrender and go live in caves.

or we could go around bombing countries that dont have anything to do with 911.

[DaGip]

NIST’s findings do not support the “pancake theory” of collapse, which is premised on a progressive failure of the floor systems in the WTC towers (the composite floor system—that connected the core columns and the perimeter columns—consisted of a grid of steel “trusses” integrated with a concrete slab; see diagram below). Instead, the NIST investigation showed conclusively that the failure of the inwardly bowed perimeter columns initiated collapse and that the occurrence of this inward bowing required the sagging floors to remain connected to the columns and pull the columns inwards. Thus, the floors did not fail progressively to cause a pancaking phenomenon.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

This is a direct quote from NIST....Xtra might be on to something here.

[Snorri1234]

gee if 19 kids with buck fifty box cutters kicked our asses with no military, not even a row boat and brought the "steel" buildings down we should just surrender and go live in caves.

Uhm.... they didn't attack your military. And actually they didn't kick your asses either. Or are you saying that the USA is currently ruled by those same terrorists?

[DaGip]

gee if 19 kids with buck fifty box cutters kicked our asses with no military, not even a row boat and brought the "steel" buildings down we should just surrender and go live in caves.

Uhm.... they didn't attack your military. And actually they didn't kick your asses either. Or are you saying that the USA is currently ruled by those same terrorists?

Snorri and Xtra, why don't you guys try and stay on topic? Geesh! Did you even read my post????

[DaGip]

This hypothesis may be supported or modified, or new hypotheses may be developed, through the course of the continuing investigation. NIST also is considering whether hypothetical blast events could have played a role in initiating the collapse. While NIST has found no evidence of a blast or controlled demolition event, NIST would like to determine the magnitude of hypothetical blast scenarios that could have led to the structural failure of one or more critical elements.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm

This is also the last paragraph on the NIST answers to WTC site.

[xtratabasco]

[ i've been 'disproving' xtra from the beginning of every thread he has made

In addition, NIST's own studies confirmed that virtually none of the steel in either tower reached temperatures hotter than 500 degrees. The point at which steel weakens is 1000 degrees and melting point is reached at 1,500 degrees, according to NIST itself.


lol

Nooo...the temperature is 648 degrees, not 1,000 degrees. And also, this from the NIST fact sheet:

The WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius)

So, NIST did find that the jet fuel burnt that hot.

the only problem is that steel beams dont burn, bend, break or get compormised until 2700 degrees, just put a steel pot on the stove and see what happens or turn on your kerosene heater.

FLAMES DONT BEND STEEL or POLVERIZE CONCRETE


LOL




damn your a tool

[DaGip]

[ i've been 'disproving' xtra from the beginning of every thread he has made

In addition, NIST's own studies confirmed that virtually none of the steel in either tower reached temperatures hotter than 500 degrees. The point at which steel weakens is 1000 degrees and melting point is reached at 1,500 degrees, according to NIST itself.


lol

Nooo...the temperature is 648 degrees, not 1,000 degrees. And also, this from the NIST fact sheet:

The WTC towers collapsed because: (1) the impact of the planes severed and damaged support columns, dislodged fireproofing insulation coating the steel floor trusses and steel columns, and widely dispersed jet fuel over multiple floors; and (2) the subsequent unusually large jet-fuel ignited multi-floor fires (which reached temperatures as high as 1,000 degrees Celsius)

So, NIST did find that the jet fuel burnt that hot.

the only problem is that steel beams dont burn, bend, break or get compormised until 2700 degrees, just put a steel pot on the stove and see what happens or turn on your kerosene heater.

FLAMES DONT BEND STEEL or POLVERIZE CONCRETE


LOL




damn your a tool

Well, I believe the NIST stance is that some fires did reach 1000 degrees and at those sustained temperatures, the steel trusses would have lossed 10% of their strength, therefore, beginning to buckle. The molten metal pouring out of the towers is explained as other metals that are located in the office buildings. The 'squibs' that shoot out the sides of the towers are the effect of compressed air from the weight of the building coming down. A piston effect. The air near the impact areas was cooler than the fires inside the towers, therefore, it was possible for people to go to these openings away from the hotter parts of the fire.

Does anyone know how the NIST explains off debris stuck in the sides of other buildings or bone fragments found on rooftops?

[unriggable]

Bone fragments on rooftops?

[xtratabasco]

I dont know what NIST says was the temperature in those holes but theres half a dozen pictures of live people waving T-shirts and paper trying to get recognized for a rescue, so it couldnt have been more than the temperature to melt hair.

[unriggable]

I dont know what NIST says was the temperature in those holes but theres half a dozen pictures of live people waving T-shirts and paper trying to get recognized for a rescue, so it couldnt have been more than the temperature to melt hair.

The buildings are pretty big y'know, and temperature doesn't travel very far. I know I sound like a tool saying this, but really let's be realistic. Same reason that you can have your hand within inches of an open flame when cooking.

[xtratabasco]

I dont know what NIST says was the temperature in those holes but theres half a dozen pictures of live people waving T-shirts and paper trying to get recognized for a rescue, so it couldnt have been more than the temperature to melt hair.

The buildings are pretty big y'know, and temperature doesn't travel very far. I know I sound like a tool saying this, but really let's be realistic. Same reason that you can have your hand within inches of an open flame when cooking.

God I love ya.


the temperatures couldnt melt a womans hair but melted 46 inch solid beams and polverized concrete.

all in less than 2 hours and came down 10 seconds flat

[unriggable]

I dont know what NIST says was the temperature in those holes but theres half a dozen pictures of live people waving T-shirts and paper trying to get recognized for a rescue, so it couldnt have been more than the temperature to melt hair.

The buildings are pretty big y'know, and temperature doesn't travel very far. I know I sound like a tool saying this, but really let's be realistic. Same reason that you can have your hand within inches of an open flame when cooking.

God I love ya.


the temperatures couldnt melt a womans hair but melted 46 inch solid beams and polverized concrete.

all in less than 2 hours and came down 10 seconds flat

....


You don't know much.

When the fire is next to something, that thing gets hot. When that thing is on the other side of a building, that thing does not. Now if you noticed the building falls at a slight lean to where the flame was centered.

Once one floor fell the pressure caused by the weight of the ten to fifteen floors above it would bring down the bottom floors.

[xtratabasco]

I dont know what NIST says was the temperature in those holes but theres half a dozen pictures of live people waving T-shirts and paper trying to get recognized for a rescue, so it couldnt have been more than the temperature to melt hair.

The buildings are pretty big y'know, and temperature doesn't travel very far. I know I sound like a tool saying this, but really let's be realistic. Same reason that you can have your hand within inches of an open flame when cooking.

God I love ya.


the temperatures couldnt melt a womans hair but melted 46 inch solid beams and polverized concrete.

all in less than 2 hours and came down 10 seconds flat

....


You don't know much.

When the fire is next to something, that thing gets hot. When that thing is on the other side of a building, that thing does not. Now if you noticed the building falls at a slight lean to where the flame was centered.

Once one floor fell the pressure caused by the weight of the ten to fifteen floors above it would bring down the bottom floors.

well, with your thinking then this government would be foolish to let people live, work or occupy steel buildings and should condem all of them and detor everyone to caves.

[unriggable]

Xtra, its not often that planes fly into these buildings. IT's actuallt more dangerous in a care than in a building, believe it or not. So draw whatever conclusions you want.

[xtratabasco]

Xtra, its not often that planes fly into these buildings. IT's actuallt more dangerous in a care than in a building, believe it or not. So draw whatever conclusions you want.

I thought you said it was fire that did it, not the planes?


but I debunk both.


here you go


http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... +mysteries

[heavycola]

Xtra, its not often that planes fly into these buildings. IT's actuallt more dangerous in a care than in a building, believe it or not. So draw whatever conclusions you want.

I thought you said it was fire that did it, not the planes?


but I debunk both.

Nowhere on this forum have you debunked anything.

This board is full of people with insane ideas. I don't respect creationists' beliefs, because they are, at the end of the day, a load of rubbish. I have been attacked for this in the past - 'can't be proven either way', 'you are a hypocrite', all that - but come on, the only people left that still believe this are a few american fundamentalists. Look at jay. Has his every argument shot down in flames and still buries his head in the sand.

Same with your conspiracy nut theories. You are desperate to believe there is more to 9/11 than terrorism. Fine. But that is all this is. I mean the fucking nonsense on those sites you link to....
A missile was flown into the pentagon to kill the accountants because they knew about a funding shortfall!!1! OMG!1! Yet most of the eyewitnesses are to be discredited because... they work in the pentagon.
It is utter shite. And so is your endless, tinfoil-hat spam.

common and show a pitcher of a airplane lol

[Backglass]

It is utter shite. And so is your endless, tinfoil-hat spam.

SHITE!