joecoolfrog wrote:CoffeeCream
Danger boy goes to a great deal of trouble in sourcing links to support his points,thats admirable but his 'facts' can be countered by an equal number of 'facts' that would be entirely contradictory to his position.
Well he was asked to back up his points and he did so. Of course there could be citations which would paint a terrible picture of Iraq.
Is Iraq the country that has liberated millions of people from a brutal dictator or a country of constant unrest and instability? Is it a country where millions of people have now been given the opportunity to vote in free elections or a country where prisoners have been humiliated at Abu Ghraib? Is it a country where thousands of bad guys have been killed or a country where innocent civilians have been killed and are now angry at the US presence? I think the answer is -
it is both. And this is what a war is - good & bad. I doubt the sincerity of people who say they support the effort but then constantly revert to only negative statistics.
If I only looked at the bad aspects of people that I have a relationships with then that would be terribly cynical and ignorant of their goodness. If I only looked at the good aspects of people then I would be niaeve (sp?) and easily duped or conned. I like this one girl at school. Is she a bitch or is she sweet. She is both!
joecoolfrog wrote:I do however plead guilty to being both too lazy to trawl google and lacking the motivation to get involved in a never ending battle of attrition.
You sound like me when I have a test I need to study for but don't want to.
joecoolfrog wrote:Clearly he is the chief link poster and I bow to his ceaseless energy, hopefully he will retain all his 'facts' and forward them to the loved ones of the deceased of Iraq - they will be a great comfort
Well, it's interesting you should say that because in that video of his that I watched there was an Iraqi man who wrote a letter of gratitude to the mother of a fallen soldier. People die during war it's a sad fact. Soldiers died in our Revolutionary war & now we have a representative democracy that ensures no taxation without representation and a Bill of Rights. Soldiers died during our Civil War and now millions of African-Americans are no longer slaves & our country was reunited. Soldiers died during World War II and Europe is now free from a tyrannical madman who was determined to exterminate as many Jews as he could. Soldiers died during the Cold War both in Korea & Vietnam and it lead to stopping the unchecked spread of communism. Eventually most of communism fell and now there are more free markets. I would say sacrifice is necessary and the loved ones of the deceased for the most part are proud of their deceased soldier(s). Our military is a volunteer force so people know that they may pay the ultimate sacrifice when they sign up. There's no tricks.
joecoolfrog wrote:As Im sure you are aware,one definition of a Liberal is one that is prepared to accept other ideas rather than have a fixed position, it characterises a lack of bigotry and an unwillingness to accept dogma.
Of course it can also be used to describe somebody that is percieved as being wishy washy or soft in their political leanings,I gather it is used insultingly in the USA rather more than it is as a term of virtue.
In American terms I would describe myself as a Liberal Republican wheras some others on this thread would be Dogmatic Republicans, consequently depending on the issue I can be described as either Liberal or Conservative without contradiction.
The definition as I've learned it in school is Liberals generally want the government to be hands-off when it comes to social/moral policies or scowl upon traditional values, but they want the government directly involved when it comes to financial policy. Conservatives want the government to be hands-off when it comes to financial policy/taxes, but they want the government to be involved when it comes to endorsing traditional social/moral issues. Libertarians want the government to be hands-off in both areas. That's the basics. It's interesting that you would choose to use the word 'dogmatic' about Republicans. People that are liberal are just as 'dogmatic' about what they believe in as well. It seems you are insinuating that Republicans are not open minded while Democrats are. This would explain some of the frustration on the part of DangerBoy because it sounds condescending.
It sounds to me like you are more libertarian than either conservative or liberal, but I don't know what you think about taxes. I think I am either libertarian or moderately Republican. I guess I'll figure it out some day.
No kidding! Finally a decent post to rebut this guy.
