President Bush should step down

[Iz Man]

Or more to the point, you live in what is supposed to be a democracy, so by definition, a significant minority, or for Bush what is by now a majority, will disagree with the choice of president.

We live in a Representative Republic.

He doesn't talk of bringing representative republicanism to Iraq does he?

Doesn't matter.

[Guiscard]

Doesn't matter.

So he's lying about the democracy spreading thing is he?

[Backglass]

So are the overly simplistic arguments against Bush. We all have to live through times when there are leaders who don't agree with our personal ideologies. It seems that the left (in America at least) just can't handle anyone who disagrees with them and lashes out with all kinds of accusations of corruption.

Or maybe...some people just don't like to see over $400,000,000,000.00 poured into a hole in the sand on the other side of the world for no gain, when we have bigger problems in our own country.

So then why don't they say that instead of just saying things like...

i really hate him.

I hate bush even though I am in canada,

Before Bush should be impeached, it should be Cheney who should be done away with. Let's face it, Bush is Cheney's puppet (also meaning that Bush lacks a brain and therefore good decision making abilities). Cheney, who does have a brain and uses it to take advantage of his power (perhaps too much) is easily the most corrupt in the entire administration.

I don't know...they aren't me. Perhaps you should ask them.

or your own simplistic statement:

He should step down, based purely on this photo alone. <--- That means it's a joke. Funny. Haha. Laughter is good for you, don't be afraid of it. (thats also a joke)

[Iz Man]

So he's lying about the democracy spreading thing is he?

No. I'm just saying we live in a Representative Republic, not a democracy.

So can I assume you believe some sort of representative government is not the best thing for Iraq? Perhaps the best thing would be the 7th century feudal system that Islamic extremists would prefer?

[Guiscard]

So he's lying about the democracy spreading thing is he?

No. I'm just saying we live in a Representative Republic, not a democracy.

So can I assume you believe some sort of representative government is not the best thing for Iraq? Perhaps the best thing would be the 7th century feudal system that Islamic extremists would prefer?

No not at all. I believe a representative government is exactly what Iraq needs. I just doubt the moral convictions of both America and the UK when we talk of 'democracy spreading'. I think our foreign policy interests are much more selfish than simply helping the Iraqi people to form a representative government.

Basically, our leaders spout a lot of rubbish about bringing democracy to Iraq being their primary aim for going to war, but I don't believe that.

[firth4eva]

blackglass. you include a quote form me even though you dont know what this thread is about.

[Vincent M]

blackglass. you include a quote form me even though you dont know what this thread is about.

I love this they are all idiots

[firth4eva]

i like to check up on this to see what they are saying.

[Backglass]

blackglass. you include a quote form me even though you dont know what this thread is about.

Please try to keep up. It was a quote thread from DangerBoy...not me.

[vtmarik]

blackglass. you include a quote form me even though you dont know what this thread is about.

Please try to keep up. It was a quote thread from DangerBoy...not me.

Um... Backglass...

You've fallen victim to OCD, Oblivious to the Code Disorder. President Bush is code for a particular mod who may or may not need to step down.

[Backglass]

blackglass. you include a quote form me even though you dont know what this thread is about.

Please try to keep up. It was a quote thread from DangerBoy...not me.

Um... Backglass...

You've fallen victim to OCD, Oblivious to the Code Disorder. President Bush is code for a particular mod who may or may not need to step down.

Yeah yeah, I know about your secret decoder ring. It's very amusing.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I miss Spamalot...it was the only place with meaning!

[Stopper]

Or more to the point, you live in what is supposed to be a democracy, so by definition, a significant minority, or for Bush what is by now a majority, will disagree with the choice of president.

We live in a Representative Republic.

I'm sorry, but this dictionary of yours that:

a) seems to restrict the word "irony" to only situational irony, and excludes any other form, notably verbal irony, and

b) seems to restrict the meaning of the word "democracy" to some uninteresting and irrelevant (to my point) academic form, and excludes the general sense of "a form of government in which the people have a voice in the exercise of power, typically through elected representatives" (OED),

is seriously getting on my tits. Did you actually want to say anything about my original point?

[Iz Man]

Basically, our leaders spout a lot of rubbish about bringing democracy to Iraq being their primary aim for going to war, but I don't believe that.

I don't recall anyone claiming "spreading democracy" was the primary reason for entering Iraq.
I believe its part of it. A stable, democratic nation is what that region needs to counter the totalitarian states that permeate the Middle East.

Unfortunately the Iraqi's have not stepped up at all to help facilitate this transition. This was a fatal oversight in the whole campaign.
The Iraqis do not have the heart, will, or the balls to stand up for themselves and help eliminate the insurgency in their own country. Which is a shame.
That, coupled with the ridiculous rules of engagement our troops must abide by, are what has made this war much more difficult to win than it should be.

[vtmarik]

Bring it down to brass tacks gentlemen.

The original case for war was "WMDs" and "Saddam's got missiles and can hit us within 45 minutes."

Now that we all know those were lies, the case for war has been morphed into "We went to spread democracy" and "Saddam was a threat."

The spin machine may be on full tilt, but the administration still lied to Congress and the American People at the genesis of this action.

[Iz Man]

The original case for war was "WMDs" and "Saddam's got missiles and can hit us within 45 minutes."
Now that we all know those were lies, the case for war has been morphed into "We went to spread democracy" and "Saddam was a threat."
The spin machine may be on full tilt, but the administration still lied to Congress and the American People at the genesis of this action.

Yeah, he LIED dammit ! And so did all these people!!!

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line."
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998.

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."
President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Iraq is a long way from here, but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face."
Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998.

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"We urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs."
Letter to President Clinton, signed by Sens. Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others Oct. 9, 1998.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

"There is no doubt that . Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to redefine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer-range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies."
Letter to President Bush, Signed by Sen. Bob Graham (D, FL,) and others, Dec, 5, 2001.

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandate of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them."
Sen. Carl Levin (d, MI), Sept. 19, 2002.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is using and developing weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002.

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retains some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capabilities. Intelligence reports indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons..."
Sen. Robert Byrd (D, WV), Oct. 3, 2002.

"I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security."
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002.

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years . We also should remember we have alway s underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."
Sen. Jay Rockerfeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002,

"He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do."
Rep. Henry Waxman (D, CA), Oct. 10, 2002.

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons."
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction. "Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime ... He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. And now he has continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction ... So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real ...
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003.

[SKETRS]

hahahahahahhahahahahahahaa, They can't deny they made those statements , but they do , or did bush make them, but hey guess what? Bush brain washed them all and made them say it. There is no chance any of these weapons were on the convoys of trucks leaving Iraq during the buildup to the war either. They never existed and He never used them on the Kurds, Those are figments of our Imagination. Liberals??????????

[Backglass]

Hey IZ...my Mom always said "Two wrongs don't make a right".



Here are a few more nice quotes...


"I think war is a dangerous place" - George W. Bush

“Most imports are from outside of the country” - George W. Bush

“The thing that's wrong with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur” - George W. Bush

“Will the highways on the Internet become more few?” - George W. Bush

“Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning?” - George W. Bush

[Iz Man]

Hey IZ...my Mom always said "Two wrongs don't make a right".
Here are a few more nice quotes...

"I think war is a dangerous place" - George W. Bush

“Most imports are from outside of the country” - George W. Bush

“The thing that's wrong with the French is that they don't have a word for entrepreneur” - George W. Bush

“Will the highways on the Internet become more few?” - George W. Bush

“Rarely is the question asked: is our children learning?” - George W. Bush

Good quotes there, no doubt.
Off topic, but a couple of my favorite quotes from my favorite "quoter":

"From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put."

"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."

-Winston Churchill

[Guiscard]

hahahahahahhahahahahahahaa, They can't deny they made those statements , but they do , or did bush make them, but hey guess what? Bush brain washed them all and made them say it. There is no chance any of these weapons were on the convoys of trucks leaving Iraq during the buildup to the war either. They never existed and He never used them on the Kurds, Those are figments of our Imagination. Liberals??????????

Oh come on Sketrs, you conspiracy-fuelled idiot, not the WMDs thing again...

Your government must be lying to you, then, when they produced this report:

Iraq Survey Group Report

The report states, without any doubt, that Saddam's ability to produce nuclear weapons had "progressively decayed" since 1991. Inspectors found no evidence of "concerted efforts to restart the program." The report concluded that "we were almost all wrong" in our assessment that Saddam had WMDs.

And in the UK the Butler Review says that information regarding Iraqi production of chemical and biological weapons was "seriously flawed".

Why the hell would our governments, who more than anything need to VALIDATE the war in Iraq through proving that their original conclusions about WMDs were correct, produce these CONCLUSIVE GOVERNMENTAL REPORTS which state that Saddam didn't have WMDs, nor did he have the capability to produce them in the near future. For fucks sake, if there was any serious weight to the conspiracy nutjob bollocks that you're spouting do you not think our governments would be pushing it and pushing it as the valid reason for the war?

Who knows better? You or the CIA?

There are a million other things about the Iraq war which you can debate into the ground, but this isn't one of them.

[Backglass]

Good quotes there, no doubt.
Off topic, but a couple of my favorite quotes from my favorite "quoter":

"From now on, ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put."

"I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly."

-Winston Churchill

My two faves:

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side." - Hunter S. Thompson (allegedly)

"If I'd had more time, I would have written something shorter" - Mark Twain

[Jenos Ridan]

hahahahahahhahahahahahahaa, They can't deny they made those statements , but they do , or did bush make them, but hey guess what? Bush brain washed them all and made them say it. There is no chance any of these weapons were on the convoys of trucks leaving Iraq during the buildup to the war either. They never existed and He never used them on the Kurds, Those are figments of our Imagination. Liberals??????????

The Kurds were gased. Anyone who disagrees is as bad as the anti-holocaust lobby. It happened and we need to make damn sure nothing like that ever happens again.

Sure, no proof now, but obivously he did can very well could have had them. And I don't thing we can say he didn't have the intent.

Brainwashing? Is it not just simpler to say that mainstream Demys are just inconsistent loons?

[Guiscard]

hahahahahahhahahahahahahaa, They can't deny they made those statements , but they do , or did bush make them, but hey guess what? Bush brain washed them all and made them say it. There is no chance any of these weapons were on the convoys of trucks leaving Iraq during the buildup to the war either. They never existed and He never used them on the Kurds, Those are figments of our Imagination. Liberals??????????

The Kurds were gased. Anyone who disagrees is as bad as the anti-holocaust lobby. It happened and we need to make damn sure nothing like that ever happens again.

Sure, no proof now, but obivously he did can very well could have had them. And I don't thing we can say he didn't have the intent.

Brainwashing? Is it not just simpler to say that mainstream Demys are just inconsistent loons?

Jenos, again you missed the whole sarcasm thing in his post...

[Jenos Ridan]

hahahahahahhahahahahahahaa, They can't deny they made those statements , but they do , or did bush make them, but hey guess what? Bush brain washed them all and made them say it. There is no chance any of these weapons were on the convoys of trucks leaving Iraq during the buildup to the war either. They never existed and He never used them on the Kurds, Those are figments of our Imagination. Liberals??????????

The Kurds were gased. Anyone who disagrees is as bad as the anti-holocaust lobby. It happened and we need to make damn sure nothing like that ever happens again.

Sure, no proof now, but obivously he did can very well could have had them. And I don't thing we can say he didn't have the intent.

Brainwashing? Is it not just simpler to say that mainstream Demys are just inconsistent loons?

Jenos, again you missed the whole sarcasm thing in his post...

ARRGGH! Sorry, spoken sarcasm is easier for me to catch. But, I hope my points were still good.

[Stopper]

ARRGGH! Sorry, spoken sarcasm is easier for me to catch. But, I hope my points were still good.

No, your points are shite. The situation isn't helped by your admitting that spoken sarcasm (or verbal irony, as I like to call it) is easier to grasp, either. You lose.

Iz Man, you're a useless Republican-Party-drone-which-doesn't-realise-its-shelf-life-is-up. I say that, because I presented a simple post which required either a rebuttal or an apology, and you've done neither. But then you went and tried to retrospectively justify Bush's justification for war, which never sits well with ME. Prepare for vengeance when I wake up in the morning (with a hangover) and can easily copy and paste my previous posts on this subject, and actually, maybe some Doonesbury cartoons, too.