Dont you love detentions?

[Napoleon Ier]

Im not going to bother replying properly to you Napoleon because you clearly have extremist views, and Guis has said the same thing many times but you've not understood it once. One thing, De Gaulle was an idiot.

Guiscard has so far only spewed out the generic "waves of immigration built France up etc...".
If you want to insult the General without any defence or expounding on the view, I suggest you pick up a book, use google, just learn. Instruct yourself. When you know more and are in a more willing mindset to discuss rationally we shall. Its no use calling someone extremist and just leaving it at that. Thats too easy, its calumnious, its diffamation and its base. Argue with depth and reason.

Hello again muy_thaiguy

Yes, The Gauls are celts, and France was instrumental with the Holy Roman Empire and England in the Crusades. However the common view that the crusades were simply brutish Christians persecuting innocent moslems is oer-simplitic. The Crusades sought to defend the Byzantine Empire and retake what was originally Christian land. Atrocities were perpetrated by both sides, on no worse a scale than any in a medieval war.

[muy_thaiguy]

Im not going to bother replying properly to you Napoleon because you clearly have extremist views, and Guis has said the same thing many times but you've not understood it once. One thing, De Gaulle was an idiot.

Guiscard has so far only spewed out the generic "waves of immigration built France up etc...".
If you want to insult the General without any defence or expounding on the view, I suggest you pick up a book, use google, just learn. Instruct yourself. When you know more and are in a more willing mindset to discuss rationally we shall. Its no use calling someone extremist and just leaving it at that. Thats too easy, its calumnious, its diffamation and its base. Argue with depth and reason.

Hello again muy_thaiguy

Yes, The Gauls are celts, and France was instrumental with the Holy Roman Empire and England in the Crusades. However the common view that the crusades were simply brutish Christians persecuting innocent moslems is oer-simplitic. The Crusades sought to defend the Byzantine Empire and retake what was originally Christian land. Atrocities were perpetrated by both sides, on no worse a scale than any in a medieval war.

Never said any different, and have actually used such answers before in debates and other questions on this site and others.

[Napoleon Ier]

We are then of one mind. Pax vobiscum thaiguy!

[Guiscard]

However the common view that the crusades were simply brutish Christians persecuting innocent moslems is oer-simplitic.

You REALLY don't want to start down that track.

I'm just finishing up the research for my doctorate. I am a medievalist and the crusades is my specific topic. Interpreting crusading ideology is my job.

Believe me here, whatever your right-wing mythology tells you please just go and read some history books. You'll learn a lot about your supposed roots and the positive and negative contributions of your religion to the world around us.

[Napoleon Ier]

However the common view that the crusades were simply brutish Christians persecuting innocent moslems is oer-simplitic.

You REALLY don't want to start down that track.

I'm just finishing up the research for my doctorate. I am a medievalist and the crusades is my specific topic. Interpreting crusading ideology is my job.

Believe me here, whatever your right-wing mythology tells you please just go and read some history books. You'll learn a lot about your supposed roots and the positive and negative contributions of your religion to the world around us.

http://www.renouveaufrancais.com/index.php?txt=identite/formationpeuple

Website itself a little right wing even for me, but some good content. Read if you can speak good french.

We are Gauls. Granted, many other peoples settle, but the Franks?? 2% of Northern France at most. Besides, the Parisii and other Northerners are celto-germanic, the influence is negligible.

My point in any case, is that France's culture as it stands is long established since at least Clovis and Charlemagne (franks yes, hence the name, but tiny population fragment)

[Guiscard]

However the common view that the crusades were simply brutish Christians persecuting innocent moslems is oer-simplitic.

You REALLY don't want to start down that track.

I'm just finishing up the research for my doctorate. I am a medievalist and the crusades is my specific topic. Interpreting crusading ideology is my job.

Believe me here, whatever your right-wing mythology tells you please just go and read some history books. You'll learn a lot about your supposed roots and the positive and negative contributions of your religion to the world around us.

http://www.renouveaufrancais.com/index.php?txt=identite/formationpeuple

Website itself a little right wing even for me, but some good content. Read if you can speak good french.

We are Gauls. Granted, many other peoples settle, but the Franks?? 2% of Northern France at most. Besides, the Parisii and other Northerners are celto-germanic, the influence is negligible.

My point in any case, is that France's culture as it stands is long established since at least Clovis and Charlemagne (franks yes, hence the name, but tiny population fragment)

I'm a historian. If you were a chef I wouldn't tell you how to cook steak. This has nothing to do with politics.

[Napoleon Ier]

there's no need to take a smug, sardonic attitude. We are in a forum of open debate to cultivate ourselves and expand our minds. If you wish to disagree give me arguments. And in the frame of greatest respect I will reply.

[Guiscard]

there's no need to take a smug, sardonic attitude. We are in a forum of open debate to cultivate ourselves and expand our minds. If you wish to disagree give me arguments. And in the frame of greatest respect I will reply.

I have done. You ignored them. Goodnight.

[Napoleon Ier]

I hadnt noticed

All I got was the immigration-bult-France-happy-utopist-multiculture

[Iliad]

Napoleon multiculturalism is all about tolerance. And reading this thread I see you have none of that

[Napoleon Ier]

Iliad your comment does not bring any inteligent or constructive ideas to light. Whom can I not tolerate? The perpetrators of Socialo-Bolshevik propaganda amongst youth? No, I dont tolerate that, you're right. Gangsters and delinquiants who claim to be "abandonned by the state"and who therefor feel entitled to destroy public buildings and gratuitously attack the public and guardiens of peace and civil order for money, drugs, or a cheap thrill? No, I do not tolerate them.

At no point notice do I amalgamate these socieltal issues with any culture.

Multiculturalism isn't about tolerance, it is about renouncing one's own roots to the profit of a hodge-podge melting pot one can no longer define as a sovereign nation state. Allogenous settlers' presence on French soil is eroding at our culture. I have given examples, such as porc being banned in certain schools, and mosques ddestroying histoirc skylines. There are countless more. I am not "intolerant" to other cultures, I just beilieve multiculturalism is the product of neo-socialist collectivism whihc has spawned the failed immigrationnist policy of the past 30 years. And I am proud of my culture which is French and will continue to exist in France.

[firth4eva]

Detentions suck.

[nagerous]

University > School

[Guiscard]

I hadnt noticed

All I got was the immigration-bult-France-happy-utopist-multiculture

At what point did I mention happy utopia?

I'm not trying to argue that immigration hasn't provided problems, just that it is hypocritical to espouse some mythological French culture because that culture is, in itself, a result of wave upon wave of immigration, combined with a religion which an abrahamic near-eastern religion brought to you by way of Italy.

And I've not even started on colonialism, so lets throw that one into the mix (as it seems you're going to keep spectacularly ignoring my point). The majority of immigrants are, I believe, from previously French colonies (correct my if I'm wrong). Do you not think that, if your proud white French race (I'm ignoring the Christian bit because France is the most militantly secular country in Europe and has been since the revolution, again study some history) believed it had the right to go out and conquer these people, to rule over them against their will and to make them slaves, then you are arguing from a very vulnerable and hypocritical position. We have the same thing in Britain. We colonised India, they were part of the Empire, so it makes it very difficult to argue that it isn't fair that they emigrate to Britain, the same with African territories.

And I like the right-wing pamphlet bit at the end. neo-socialist collectivism? You do realise neo-socialism dissolved into facism in the 1940s... I take it you are a supporter of Le Pen, then?

[Napoleon Ier]

Guiscard : France is militantly secular, yes! Since the Revolution? Well, the Republic has only governed between 1792-1801; a few brief Revolutions then 1871-1940; 1944-2007. Napoleon for example was Church sponsored (I shant insult you by saying read some history, that would be rather too far). France is militantly secular, I wont dispute it, but I am opposed to being secular to the extent of denying our Christian heritage as the daughter of the Church ( you are no doubt aware of this name for France?).

Neo-Socialism dissentegrated into fascism and Nazism (theres a distinction, nota bene) yes. I hate fascism (which I consider to be itself a left-wing ideology) as much as socialism or communism. They all seek to destroy the individual and make him either re-born for the state and a worker of the state. The state is there for the people and the nation, not vice versa.

I endorse a pride in french cultural identity because I believe it exists and is only reinforced by history (blame extensive reading of de Gaulle). We have a national identity, which I do ot want to see overrun by Islamism.

Much immigration came from the colonies, yes, I shant dispute it. But they have no plcae in France unless they can honestly say they are patriots of France and willing to take on our heritage and traditions.

I do not support le Pen. This should be obvious from my Gaullist references. His anti-americanism, anti-"Sionism"--> (dixit le Pen) and general style do not please me. He is certainly not a fascist, just victim of an omerta drummed up by bolsho-mediatic plots of french journalism infeodated to apatride Bruxellois capital.

I support a very little known politician called Philippe de Villiers. You will almost certainly not have heard of him (unless you know a lot about french politics, which you may, I amnot being condescending). But that is irrelevant.

[Napoleon Ier]

As for the happy-utopie, I unfairly misquoted. I apologise friend.

[Guiscard]

I'm not trying to argue that immigration hasn't provided problems, just that it is hypocritical to espouse some mythological French culture because that culture is, in itself, a result of wave upon wave of immigration, combined with a religion which an abrahamic near-eastern religion brought to you by way of Italy.

Firstly, you still aren't answering this point.

Secondly, you're just spouting propaganda, not argument. You made no comment on colonialism, just repeated the fact that you don't like immigrants and you feel they are devaluing mythological true French culture. I know that from your first post.

You are spectacularly avoiding any kind of answer.

[Napoleon Ier]

Colonialism was not nearly as bad as masochistic leftists try and tell us. Yes it was a mistake, but we hardly brought slavery to them. The Ottomans had done that, and the African tribes enslaved each other. France never traded great volumes of African slaves (though they did send some to Haiti, granted). As for the N. African coloinies, they massacred the French Christians and Jews in the Algerian War (cf. Massacre de la rue d'Isly) (FLN atrocities are numerous and horrific). They dont want us? fine. Their right. But ont come crawling into our country and demanding food, housing jobs ect...unless you have skills to offer the economy, or wish to be adopted into the Gallic family.

[Guiscard]

Colonialism was not nearly as bad as masochistic leftists try and tell us. Yes it was a mistake, but we hardly brought slavery to them. The Ottomans had done that, and the African tribes enslaved each other. France never traded great volumes of African slaves (though they did send some to Haiti, granted). As for the N. African coloinies, they massacred the French Christians and Jews in the Algerian War (cf. Massacre de la rue d'Isly) (FLN atrocities are numerous and horrific). They dont want us? fine. Their right. But ont come crawling into our country and demanding food, housing jobs ect...unless you have skills to offer the economy, or wish to be adopted into the Gallic family.

If you seriously believe all that then there really is not point continuing. You're entirely deluded... Just read some history. Please.

[Napoleon Ier]

You see Guiscard, where I disagree with you first point is that France, I dont believe, was founded upon waves of immigration. Certes, the Gauls (germano-celts) invaded France 4000BC and the Franks (germanic) came along, but other that them, France remains of the same cultural and ethnic compositon (though ethnicity is not the main issue)

[sam_levi_11]

Detentions suck.

they see ignorance is bliss....

*sam looks around at the arguements*

i wish i was as blind as firth...

[Napoleon Ier]

Giscard : I read history. What do you know about the de-colonization of Algeria? Apparantly nothing. You're denying Isly masacre? You're denying the Harkis masacres? read somemodern history, or take a less insulting cndescending tone and debate rationally.

[muy_thaiguy]

Detentions suck.

they see ignorance is bliss....

*sam looks around at the arguements*

i wish i was as blind as firth...

I wish I was[size=0]n't[/size] as short as Sam. Last time for that, now I'll stop.

[sam_levi_11]

Detentions suck.

they see ignorance is bliss....

*sam looks around at the arguements*

i wish i was as blind as firth...

I wish I was[size=0]n't[/size] as short as Sam. Last time for that, now I'll stop.

wait....the nt means ur a short as me...and anyway dude with my cool boots on im almost 6ft due to the soles being huge

[muy_thaiguy]

Detentions suck.

they see ignorance is bliss....

*sam looks around at the arguements*

i wish i was as blind as firth...

I wish I was[size=0]n't[/size] as short as Sam. Last time for that, now I'll stop.

wait....the nt means ur a short as me...and anyway dude with my cool boots on im almost 6ft due to the soles being huge

Did I confuse you? I have to go now, got class, laters.