Was Thomas Jefferson a rapist?

[jimboston]

Here you go Duk! You have good company!

Oh, don't be an idiot. There's no comparison between Arab war atrocities and normal people having normal sexual relationships.

Your sense of normal sexual relationship is what I question.

Bernie, the problem is that you're applying the definition of what's "normal" today, to an event that took place over 200 years ago.

Their definition of "normal' was very different.

This is clear... yet somehow you're going to be unable to recognize and accept this fact.

[Bernie Sanders]

Here you go Duk! You have good company!

Oh, don't be an idiot. There's no comparison between Arab war atrocities and normal people having normal sexual relationships.

Your sense of normal sexual relationship is what I question.

Bernie, the problem is that you're applying the definition of what's "normal" today, to an event that took place over 200 years ago.

Their definition of "normal' was very different.

This is clear... yet somehow you're going to be unable to recognize and accept this fact.

You seem to think girls who are 14 years old and a slave to a middle age man 200 years ago should just lay back and enjoy having her virginity taken is any different from a 14 year old girl being raped today.

Imbeciles like yourself would be singing a different tune if you raised a daughter.

[Symmetry]

Here you go Duk! You have good company!

Oh, don't be an idiot. There's no comparison between Arab war atrocities and normal people having normal sexual relationships.

Your sense of normal sexual relationship is what I question.

Bernie, the problem is that you're applying the definition of what's "normal" today, to an event that took place over 200 years ago.

Their definition of "normal' was very different.

This is clear... yet somehow you're going to be unable to recognize and accept this fact.

To be clear- what Jefferson did would not have been normal even 200 years ago. This was in no way a "normal sexual relationship". He literally enslaved his own children.

I understand your position- but this whole argument that you have going that it's all in the past, so shouldn't be judged, seems a little naive, at best.

[Thorthoth]

Jefferson could also be championed by the lib-tards as a pioneer of pro-miscegenation breeding...
...but of course, that doesn't fit into Symbo's manipulative, preconceived and completely self-serving narrative.

[Symmetry]

Jefferson could also be championed by the lib-tards as a pioneer of pro-miscegenation breeding...
...but of course, that doesn't fit into Symbo's manipulative, preconceived and completely self-serving narrative.

Cool story bro.

[Thorthoth]

Jefferson could also be championed by the lib-tards as a pioneer of pro-miscegenation breeding...
...but of course, that doesn't fit into Symbo's manipulative, preconceived and completely self-serving narrative.

Cool story bro.

Ain't it though?

[jimboston]

You seem to think girls who are 14 years old and a slave to a middle age man 200 years ago should just lay back and enjoy having her virginity taken is any different from a 14 year old girl being raped today.

Imbeciles like yourself would be singing a different tune if you raised a daughter.

Imbeciles like you seem to think you can put words in my mouth.

At what point did I say "she should just lay back and enjoy it"?

[jimboston]

To be clear- what Jefferson did would not have been normal even 200 years ago. This was in no way a "normal sexual relationship". He literally enslaved his own children.

I don't think I ever said it was "normal" 200 years ago. It definitely wasn't "normal" (at least IMHO). You can say this because he, Jefferson, did not publicly acknowledge the relationship. If it was normal it would have been "out".

That said, even though it wasn't broadly known to the public, many historians speculate that it was a "known secret" among his peers. If that's true, then you can further speculate that it wasn't so abhorrent a behavior to them... as they did not "out" him or publicly condemn him.

Regardless of that point. I don't think we are "judging" whether or not the relationship was normal. I think we're trying to ascertain whether or not Jefferson was a rapist.

I understand your position- but

again with the "but"...

this whole argument that you have going that it's all in the past, so shouldn't be judged, seems a little naive, at best.

Nope. You again are purposefully ignoring what I am saying. I've NEVER said that "it's in the past so shouldn't be judged". I have said that some of his behavior (specifically the age of Sally Hemings) should be judged based on the norms of his time.

The whole rape part... I didn't even say we should judge based on the norms of his time... I gave a valid definition for "rape" and have stuck to this definition since my first post.

[jimboston]

Jefferson could also be championed by the lib-tards as a pioneer of pro-miscegenation breeding...
...but of course, that doesn't fit into Symbo's manipulative, preconceived and completely self-serving narrative.

That's taking it a bit far.

That would assume his goal was to procreate. I highly doubt that was his goal.

His goal was to get into her pants, and children were a side effect.

[Bernie Sanders]

http://digital.lib.lehigh.edu/trial/jefferson//episodes/list/19_4

1) A founding phony
Aside from a brief mention in a history textbook when learning about the mudslinging that occurred during the 1800 presidential election, the Thomas Jefferson-Sally Hemings affair has not been discussed during my schooling. For any other white man of his time, the relationship would be looked down upon despite it being a relatively common phenomenon. For Thomas Jefferson, an esteemed figure in American history whose eloquent words still carry such meaning some 200 years later, even the thought of such inappropriate relations seems impossible. If the man who wrote that "all men are created equal" can not abide by this rule himself by not only having slaves but by potentially taking advantage of a slave to have an intimate relationship, how can the rest of Americans be considered to live up to this lofty standard? Even if he were able to come up with some sort of justification for his actions, would it even be worth hearing? "All men are created equal" is quite a powerful statement, and it doesn't seem as though he left any room for negotiation. He did not add an asterisk after the statement that directed readers to the bottom of the page where he neatly printed "except for African American slaves." The statement as written is all-inclusive. The revelation that one of the cornerstones of this nation is a fake tarnishes the image of this country and leaves me wondering, is everything this nation stands for a lie?
Jennifer Markham

[jimboston]

http://digital.lib.lehigh.edu/trial/jefferson//episodes/list/19_4

1) A founding phony
Aside from a brief mention in a history textbook when learning about the mudslinging that occurred during the 1800 presidential election, the Thomas Jefferson-Sally Hemings affair has not been discussed during my schooling. For any other white man of his time, the relationship would be looked down upon despite it being a relatively common phenomenon. For Thomas Jefferson, an esteemed figure in American history whose eloquent words still carry such meaning some 200 years later, even the thought of such inappropriate relations seems impossible. If the man who wrote that "all men are created equal" can not abide by this rule himself by not only having slaves but by potentially taking advantage of a slave to have an intimate relationship, how can the rest of Americans be considered to live up to this lofty standard? Even if he were able to come up with some sort of justification for his actions, would it even be worth hearing? "All men are created equal" is quite a powerful statement, and it doesn't seem as though he left any room for negotiation. He did not add an asterisk after the statement that directed readers to the bottom of the page where he neatly printed "except for African American slaves." The statement as written is all-inclusive. The revelation that one of the cornerstones of this nation is a fake tarnishes the image of this country and leaves me wondering, is everything this nation stands for a lie?
Jennifer Markham

... ok

So you've proved Thomas Jefferson is a hypocrite. Congratulations.

Now explain to me how this is in any way evidence that he was a rapist.
Oh. It's not.

If everyone who was ever a hypocrite on any subject was also a rapist I would estimate that about 100% of all people, both men and women, would be guilty.

[riskllama]

do you ever get tired of winning, jimbo?

[Thorthoth]

do you ever get tired of winning, jimbo?

Do you ever get tired of losing, llamo?

[tzor]

A middle aged man having sex with a 14 year old girl.....nope it was legal back then. Only property being abused, right?

Jefferson was a pedophile.

Pedophile is "prepubescent" so we are talking about Hebephilia here (or Ephebophilia since the classic late age for the former is 14 so this is a borderline condition). Bear in mind that these are all modern notions. The "legality" of the matter is simple, it wasn't, since it was flat out adultery.

[Thorthoth]

People need to re-think all this from an adaptative-evolutionary standpoint.
Her descendants likely scored a natural-selective jackpot when they got an infusion of Jeffersonian genetic jelly.

[jimboston]

do you ever get tired of winning, jimbo?

It doesn't happen all the time, trust me. I'm married.

[Bernie Sanders]

do you ever get tired of winning, jimbo?

It doesn't happen all the time, trust me. I'm married.

We all can't wait until you have a daughter and she gets some attention from a much older man.

Until then......STFU!

[Bernie Sanders]

A middle aged man having sex with a 14 year old girl.....nope it was legal back then. Only property being abused, right?

Jefferson was a pedophile.

Pedophile is "prepubescent" so we are talking about Hebephilia here (or Ephebophilia since the classic late age for the former is 14 so this is a borderline condition). Bear in mind that these are all modern notions. The "legality" of the matter is simple, it wasn't, since it was flat out adultery.

Only adultery, huh? You have a daughter? Borderline condition? That's some fuked up sh!t

[DoomYoshi]

The Magic 8-Ball says that Sally Hennings was "Looking Good" when I asked if she was a rapist.

[Bernie Sanders]

The Magic 8-Ball says that Sally Hennings was "Looking Good" when I asked if she was a rapist.

Doom, you been drinking or smoking weed?

[DoomYoshi]

These days I stick to mainlining PCP and shooting roids into my keister.

[patches70]

The "legality" of the matter is simple, it wasn't, since it was flat out adultery.

Why was it adultery? Jefferson's wife was dead by that point. He didn't start diddling Sally until after Martha died. I don't think Sally Hemings was ever married.

[Bernie Sanders]

To my fellow Americans.

We were all taught that our Founding Fathers were pure of thought and Godlike in school.

Got news for most of you....they were drunkards, rapists, thiefs and opportunity takers.

[Thorthoth]

To my fellow Americans.

We were all taught that our Founding Fathers were pure of thought and Godlike in school.

Got news for most of you....they were drunkards, rapists, thiefs and opportunity takers.

Yea, so is God. Got a prob with that, heretic.

[tzor]

So, after all these pages, have we determined that Jefferson sang rap music?