Marxists Thread

[everywhere116]

see this is what im talking about, have any of you people so apposed to it actually studied it, i will say its most basic premise cause you are probly too busy treading on people to reach the top on a quest for more and more tainted money "give what you can and take only what you need" meaning everyone there is helping each other and every one gets an equal oppurtunity communism is the ultimate form of society and follows socialism once there is enough of everything to be shared with everyone. no one has yet actually implemented communism its been socialism, versions of marxism, marxist-leninist, maoists. they are all different.

and before you asked yes if i was a doctor i would gladly get 'paid' the same as a street cleaner (despite the fact that money would not be neccessary as people would be sharing everything, goods and services. which is sadly impossible due to greed that i see everyday).

I see that you are well meaning and yes it would be great if the Earth was a utopian place but we are but Humans, with different wants, desires and needs. the concept would work if we were Termites and all thought alike but we're not.

One of the main problems i have with communism is the fact that it destroys initiative. Why would someone in that system work harder or smarter for that manner? All they would get for their hard work would be the Ire of their co-workers. I've worked in Union shops and was told "to not work so hard, i was making everyone look bad"!

In that kind of world, the advancement of civilization would slow to a crawl.

I think we are better off by having a free capitalist system and at the same time teaching our children to be well rounded, secure and compassionate people. I understand your disdain for greedy people,, but there is no system that would eliminate self-centeredness.

Anyway, just had to throw in my "2-cents".

All the best and don't forget the sunblock!
ksslemp

Congratulations for seeing the light.

[Anarchy Ninja]

Yes, the cleaner will get sick. Will he be sick all the time, no. Will he accept versitile money all the time, yes.

Say that gold isnt worth anything at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me you wont get an earful about how it is valuable.

so would the street cleaner leave the street dirty because the person on that street isnt giving him anything at the time? he would if he is an ungratefull lazy slob but i like to think that that does not cover the eniter human race all though sometimes i wonder...
ok what do you use gold for if it is so useful? whats that nothing but jewllery. all gold does is look pretty what the f*ck is the usefullness of that... "oh yes i see how gold is valuable to society... it ummmm it"

IT DOES NOTHING!!

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

Money is the solution to bartering. Yes, paper is worthless. Money isnt. Go up to the department store and ask to buy shoes intending to pay with your coat. You will be laughed at. Now go up and offer money. They will accept. The reason money is center is because it is versitile.

And gold is valuable because people will buy it. Its that simple.

oh yes versatile it can be made into planes and everything
ahh yes why would someone go out of their way to help a whole street full of people it just doesnt make sense does it?
of course id be laughed at if i tried to barter in todays world cause peole, like you, love their money oh so much[/i]

Money is versitile because with enough of it you can buy that airplane. Face it, money makes people work, and when people work, it makes society go.

so your saying pepole wouldnt work for goods and services
"what that guy is offering me food for that plow so he can then make more food more effectively!? he can go f*ck himself!"

Some people would. But all people would work for money.

i no i would prefer to starve. especially when i could have a fistfull of bills i mean come on who wouldnt!

With that money you can buy the food you need. And anything else you want, or do you just want the extra food to pile up and be wasted?

once again i bring up the basic premise of "Give what you can, take only what you need"

[everywhere116]

in regards to your "new berlin wall" if i where to create a city i would invite people who shard my views and where not greedy self centred bastards, believe it or not but these peole exsist today!

If you have to handpick the people in your society there is something wrong.

[DIRESTRAITS]

So Anarchist, do you really need the computer your sitting at?

[everywhere116]

Yes, the cleaner will get sick. Will he be sick all the time, no. Will he accept versitile money all the time, yes.

Say that gold isnt worth anything at the New York Stock Exchange. Tell me you wont get an earful about how it is valuable.

so would the street cleaner leave the street dirty because the person on that street isnt giving him anything at the time? he would if he is an ungratefull lazy slob but i like to think that that does not cover the eniter human race all though sometimes i wonder...
ok what do you use gold for if it is so useful? whats that nothing but jewllery. all gold does is look pretty what the f*ck is the usefullness of that... "oh yes i see how gold is valuable to society... it ummmm it"

IT DOES NOTHING!!

I'ts not the cleaner's street, it's the doctor's street. Its the doctor's loss. What you are suggesting is slavery.

Money is the solution to bartering. Yes, paper is worthless. Money isnt. Go up to the department store and ask to buy shoes intending to pay with your coat. You will be laughed at. Now go up and offer money. They will accept. The reason money is center is because it is versitile.

And gold is valuable because people will buy it. Its that simple.

oh yes versatile it can be made into planes and everything
ahh yes why would someone go out of their way to help a whole street full of people it just doesnt make sense does it?
of course id be laughed at if i tried to barter in todays world cause peole, like you, love their money oh so much[/i]

Money is versitile because with enough of it you can buy that airplane. Face it, money makes people work, and when people work, it makes society go.

so your saying pepole wouldnt work for goods and services
"what that guy is offering me food for that plow so he can then make more food more effectively!? he can go f*ck himself!"

Some people would. But all people would work for money.

i no i would prefer to starve. especially when i could have a fistfull of bills i mean come on who wouldnt!

With that money you can buy the food you need. And anything else you want, or do you just want the extra food to pile up and be wasted?

once again i bring up the basic premise of "Give what you can, take only what you need"

ksslemps arguement deals with that very nicely.

[Anarchy Ninja]

yes i agree totally the fact that to find people who are not greedy, self centred or lazy should not be such rare qualities. but they are

[DIRESTRAITS]

Will one of the Commies respond to one of my last 3 posts? are are you scared your logic wont hold up?

[spurgistan]

So Anarchist, do you really need the computer your sitting at?

I'm still not liking this whole "taking the USSR to represent Marxism thing... WHICH IT DIDN'T AND NEVER DID!" thing, but... ya heard of Sputnik? Crazy commies figured out a computer or two.

[everywhere116]

Did you not read past the part about termites?

[DIRESTRAITS]

So Anarchist, do you really need the computer your sitting at?

I'm still not liking this whole "taking the USSR to represent Marxism thing... WHICH IT DIDN'T AND NEVER DID!" thing, but... ya heard of Sputnik? Crazy commies figured out a computer or two.

What?

[foolish_yeti]

No, they probably didnt educate themselves, so now they are paying the consequences

Just curious if you've studied the education system at all, or had any experience with it other than being a student. I don't know where people get the idea that poor people are lazy. The odds are stacked waaaay against them. Luckily there are many who do manage to upgrade from their childhood class status, if you will- it's not as easy as simply deciding you want to be educated.

[everywhere116]

So Anarchist, do you really need the computer your sitting at?

I'm still not liking this whole "taking the USSR to represent Marxism thing... WHICH IT DIDN'T AND NEVER DID!" thing, but... ya heard of Sputnik? Crazy commies figured out a computer or two.

What?

Sputnik was the first Soviet sattelite.

[ksslemp]

So Anarchist, do you really need the computer your sitting at?

I'm still not liking this whole "taking the USSR to represent Marxism thing... WHICH IT DIDN'T AND NEVER DID!" thing, but... ya heard of Sputnik? Crazy commies figured out a computer or two.

Do you believe they would have developed these things without the pressure brought on them from the worlds democracies?

[DIRESTRAITS]

No, they probably didnt educate themselves, so now they are paying the consequences

Just curious if you've studied the education system at all, or had any experience with it other than being a student. I don't know where people get the idea that poor people are lazy. The odds are stacked waaaay against them. Luckily there are many who do manage to upgrade from their childhood class status, if you will- it's not as easy as simply deciding you want to be educated.

Have you ever talked to a poor person who has been educated? (please see my post about my Mom) Yeah, It is pretty much that easy. It is harder for poor people, but not anywhere near impossible. it just takes willingness and some brains

[s.xkitten]

So Anarchist, do you really need the computer your sitting at?

nah...i don't need it...i mean, it makes my job a hell of a lot easier, but i don't need it...

of course, neither do you...

[everywhere116]

No, they probably didnt educate themselves, so now they are paying the consequences

Just curious if you've studied the education system at all, or had any experience with it other than being a student. I don't know where people get the idea that poor people are lazy. The odds are stacked waaaay against them. Luckily there are many who do manage to upgrade from their childhood class status, if you will- it's not as easy as simply deciding you want to be educated.

Those who upgrade heed the "Get Educated" messege. It is not easy as saying I want to be educated. It takes hard work and having to apply yourself, something it seems you are unwilling to do.

[DIRESTRAITS]

So Anarchist, do you really need the computer your sitting at?

I'm still not liking this whole "taking the USSR to represent Marxism thing... WHICH IT DIDN'T AND NEVER DID!" thing, but... ya heard of Sputnik? Crazy commies figured out a computer or two.

What?

Sputnik was the first Soviet sattelite.

I know. He has no idea what my point was though. Anarchy keeps saying people should only keep what they need, but he doesn't need a computer, so he is in violation of his own doctrine

[Anarchy Ninja]

if it where at all viable i would propose setting up 2 independent cities
1 can live in communist utopia, the other can live in a capitilist society
i personally believe that if the capitilist society would either destroy them selves in a revoloution or after using all their resource attempt to kill the communists

[everywhere116]

So Anarchist, do you really need the computer your sitting at?

I'm still not liking this whole "taking the USSR to represent Marxism thing... WHICH IT DIDN'T AND NEVER DID!" thing, but... ya heard of Sputnik? Crazy commies figured out a computer or two.

Do you believe they would have developed these things without the pressure brought on them from the worlds democracies?

Back to competition and trying to do your best. So, any comments, commies?

[everywhere116]

if it where at all viable i would propose setting up 2 independent cities
1 can live in communist utopia, the other can live in a capitilist society
i personally believe that if the capitilist society would either destroy them selves in a revoloution or after

Reasons?

[ksslemp]

No, they probably didnt educate themselves, so now they are paying the consequences

Just curious if you've studied the education system at all, or had any experience with it other than being a student. I don't know where people get the idea that poor people are lazy. The odds are stacked waaaay against them. Luckily there are many who do manage to upgrade from their childhood class status, if you will- it's not as easy as simply deciding you want to be educated.

Agreed.

They have to be fortunate enough to be born into a family that cares or inspired by a good role model.

[everywhere116]

I believe that the communists will be sick of living in communism and move to the capitalistic city. This has been done before. See: Berlin, 1946-1989.

[foolish_yeti]

Have you ever talked to a poor person who has been educated? (please see my post about my Mom) Yeah, It is pretty much that easy. It is harder for poor people, but not anywhere near impossible. it just takes willingness and some brains

Yes I have friends who have done the same thing. It's great your Mom is a success story but that's not the case for everyone. In my opinion and experience it's a myth that anyone who wants an education can get one. And even if you were to chalk up people being uneducated to unmotivation, there are social factors that play into that as well- as well as institutional ones (e.g. schools).

[everywhere116]

Could those factors be gangs, drugs, things our government and people are against?

[DIRESTRAITS]

Have you ever talked to a poor person who has been educated? (please see my post about my Mom) Yeah, It is pretty much that easy. It is harder for poor people, but not anywhere near impossible. it just takes willingness and some brains

Yes I have friends who have done the same thing. It's great your Mom is a success story but that's not the case for everyone. In my opinion and experience it's a myth that anyone who wants an education can get one. And even if you were to chalk up people being uneducated to unmotivation, there are social factors that play into that as well- as well as institutional ones (e.g. schools).

so we should equalize everything? Using your logic, a game of risk should start with everyone moving simultanueosly and everyone owning the same territories on a symmetrical board