Racism

[DaGip]

Racism is ignorance, wouldn't you agree? If someone made racist statements, would you lose respect for them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDHbHcOV1N4&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abPQ9kZe3ZA

and of course the famous quote:

“I hate the gooks,” said McCain, a Vietnam War POW more than a quarter-century ago, “and I will hate them for as long as I live . . . and you can quote me.”

[InkL0sed]

Racism is ignorance, wouldn't you agree? If someone made racist statements, would you lose respect for them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDHbHcOV1N4&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abPQ9kZe3ZA

and of course the famous quote:

“I hate the gooks,” said McCain, a Vietnam War POW more than a quarter-century ago, “and I will hate them for as long as I live . . . and you can quote me.”

To the first video: that does not mean she's necessarily racist. There's a different between making a (albeit in-poor-taste) joke and being a racist.

To the second: yeah, that's not racist at all.

[reminisco]

part of me finds racism hilarious. because it's such a sign of stupidity, of limited mind. that since we can't laugh at retards (even though they are goofy, and it might be wrong to laugh about them) we can laugh at people so retarded as to believe that another race is inferior, or unequal in anything except pigment.

[DaGip]

Racism is ignorance, wouldn't you agree? If someone made racist statements, would you lose respect for them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDHbHcOV1N4&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abPQ9kZe3ZA

and of course the famous quote:

“I hate the gooks,” said McCain, a Vietnam War POW more than a quarter-century ago, “and I will hate them for as long as I live . . . and you can quote me.”

To the first video: that does not mean she's necessarily racist. There's a different between making a (albeit in-poor-taste) joke and being a racist.

To the second: yeah, that's not racist at all.

I see. So what exactly does "typical white person" mean? If a black man raped a woman, and I called him a "typical black man", that would be racist, right? So calling his racist grandmother a "typical white person" isn't racist? I am not understanding, sounds the same to me.

Oh, wait a second...I get it! It's only racist if a white person says it.

And how is Hillary's comment not racist? Gandhi serving Slurpees at the 7/11? Come on, that was racist humor, and you guys know it!

And McCain's quote just speaks for itself...

So, I guess we are looking at electing a racist president no matter what. *sigh*

[Hologram]

Racism is ignorance, wouldn't you agree? If someone made racist statements, would you lose respect for them?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDHbHcOV1N4&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abPQ9kZe3ZA

and of course the famous quote:

“I hate the gooks,” said McCain, a Vietnam War POW more than a quarter-century ago, “and I will hate them for as long as I live . . . and you can quote me.”

To the first video: that does not mean she's necessarily racist. There's a different between making a (albeit in-poor-taste) joke and being a racist.

To the second: yeah, that's not racist at all.

I see. So what exactly does "typical white person" mean? If a black man raped a woman, and I called him a "typical black man", that would be racist, right? So calling his racist grandmother a "typical white person" isn't racist? I am not understanding, sounds the same to me.

Oh, wait a second...I get it! It's only racist if a white person says it.

And how is Hillary's comment not racist? Gandhi serving Slurpees at the 7/11? Come on, that was racist humor, and you guys know it!

And McCain's quote just speaks for itself...

So, I guess we are looking at electing a racist president no matter what. *sigh*

Stereotyping isn't necessarily racist. Negative stereotyping is, as racism has a negative flair to it, but if I were to say that the typical Dutch person is a kind, loving person with no malice at all, and that was the true stereotype held in view by at least a large minority of people, it wouldn't be racism, at least not in the negative sense.

[jiminski]

Sheese Hillary is very stupid.... not only did she engage in a pretty tasteless joke but she committed the sin of bad delivery and poor material.

Was it racist? I don't know.. i think she was dancing on the tightrope which middle America presents. She wished to make reference to one of the great men in History (A man devoted to pacifism and anti-imperialism) but also to not be tarred as anti the establishment, 'anti white' of anti-war.
Sadly she is a desperate public-opinion whore but i do not honestly see her as a racist.

Obama.. well again he is dancing on the tightrope... He is obviously not completely caucasian, so he is drawing his Grandmother in to address and identify with a wider sense of collective experience and commonality. (remember he was asked the question too.. but then it does beg the question of who was asking the question!?)

I think that what he said about the perspective of 'A typical white person' is true actually and he used personal, empirical knowledge to validate his point.
If you were to ask 90 percent of white grandmothers if their heart beat a little faster as soon a young black man passed them in the street, they would answer in the affirmative.
that is a tragedy; based on media coverage, xenophobia and a certain amount of fact based on the comparative position of the young black male in American (and UK) society.

But Racism is such a broad and taboo subject that we often misappropriate words or actions to it and in so doing offer no facility for objection.

[PLAYER57832]

and of course the famous quote:

“I hate the gooks,” said McCain, a Vietnam War POW more than a quarter-century ago, “and I will hate them for as long as I live . . . and you can quote me.”

Given that he had only recently been a PRISONER OF WAR, subject to TORTURE ... I think a bit of hatred can be excused. Has he repeated those sentiments today? NO, in fact, I strongly believe he has overcome them. One of the great things about human beings is our capacity to learn and grow. I hope I never have to find out if I can be as forgiving!

[btownmeggy]

and of course the famous quote:

“I hate the gooks,” said McCain, a Vietnam War POW more than a quarter-century ago, “and I will hate them for as long as I live . . . and you can quote me.”

Given that he had only recently been a PRISONER OF WAR, subject to TORTURE ... I think a bit of hatred can be excused. Has he repeated those sentiments today? NO, in fact, I strongly believe he has overcome them. One of the great things about human beings is our capacity to learn and grow. I hope I never have to find out if I can be as forgiving!

No, no, no, you're misreading the quotation. McCain said in 2000 that he hates gooks and will as long as he lives.

[Napoleon Ier]

part of me finds racism hilarious. because it's such a sign of stupidity, of limited mind. that since we can't laugh at retards (even though they are goofy, and it might be wrong to laugh about them) we can laugh at people so retarded as to believe that another race is inferior, or unequal in anything except pigment.

So how do you explain the fact that negroes have an IQ (which are 80% genetically determined) 14 points lower on average than Caucasians (genuine question, I'm not racist, but when friends say that to me, I genuinely can't answer)?

[MeDeFe]

source on the 80%?

And that still leaves 20% to be influenced by other factors, like education, upbringing, what example ones parents set, and aren't blacks usually less wealthy and consequently less well educated than the average of the population in western countries due to some unfortunate historical developments?

Anyway, Dinosaur comics has summed it up.

[jiminski]

part of me finds racism hilarious. because it's such a sign of stupidity, of limited mind. that since we can't laugh at retards (even though they are goofy, and it might be wrong to laugh about them) we can laugh at people so retarded as to believe that another race is inferior, or unequal in anything except pigment.

So how do you explain the fact that negroes have an IQ (which are 80% genetically determined) 14 points lower on average than Caucasians (genuine question, I'm not racist, but when friends say that to me, I genuinely can't answer)?

Lots of reasons Napp: firstly IQ tests are culturally biased; designed largely by non black people and reflective of white hegemony in American education and throughout society.
the language used is incredibly important and often isolates the uninitiated; no mater how much raw intelligence a sitter of a test may have, if they have not been exposed to certain words or sentence structures, they are at a distinct disadvantage. The use of esoteric linguistics, polarises subject groups as much along ethnic and class groups, as it does along similarity in intelligence.

Further regarding language; the improvement of vocabulary which higher education offers, opens up whole new theoretical concepts and realms of metaphorical reasoning. The preponderance of largely white or non-blacks within higher education, leads to a vicious cycle of non-exposure to the specific higher reason concepts due to lack of universal identification and labelling. thus the fact that your parents have not been in higher eduction gives you less chance at the culturally biassed high IQ score.
Those without the luxury of being informed as to higher concepts literally have to reinvent the wheel each and hold descriptions in long hand rather than short; akin to theoretical mathematicians not being able to use calculus or Algebra to represent inconceivable numbers or an entire doctrine of understanding in 1 letter.

[jiminski]

Lots of reasons Napp: firstly IQ tests are culturally biased; designed largely by non black people and reflective of white hegemony in American education and throughout society.

Now now jimbo, what would you propose for there to be added to the IQ test? Spear throwing? Running super-fast?

My cup does not runneth over.

the language used is incredibly important and often isolates the uninitiated; no mater how much raw intelligence a sitter of a test may have, if they have not been exposed to certain words or sentence structures, they are at a distinct disadvantage.

I fail to see, how a naturalised member of a country is unable to be "thrown off" by certain uses of language..I would suggest, that if one had the intellect, one could understand what is meant, however complicated the sentence arrangement...it's called "thinking about it" and solving the problem......Intelligence?

I agree brother.. but you don't seem to have fully comprehended the message of my post

[DAZMCFC]

Or, for that matter, white children who come from good families, who then turn into shit-for-brained?

well look at Tara Palmer-Tompkinson or whatever the f*ck her name is. she's just a piss-ant. thick as f*ck.

[PLAYER57832]

So how do you explain the fact that negroes have an IQ (which are 80% genetically determined) 14 points lower on average than Caucasians (genuine question, I'm not racist, but when friends say that to me, I genuinely can't answer)?

3 reasons:

1. Blacks have historically not been afforded the same educational opportunities as whites and therefore historically scored lower on IQ tests as adults.

2. IQ tests are notorious for racial/cultural bias. A classic example was the old "what goes with a cup?". Years ago, white kids would typically say "saucer". Black kids would often say "spoon". Why? Because, at that time, blacks tended to come from poorer families that tended to not use cups and saucers. Truthfully, I am not sure how my son would answer. I use mugs now. Tests have changed, but economics is still a huge predictor of results. Poor whites generally score lower than rich whites because poorer whites also don't have the same opportunities.

3. Within the US, now, this is just plain wrong. When you factor in socio-economic factors (region of the country, parental education, etc.), you find that blacks score the same or higher than whites. If it is not true within the UK, I would suggest that it is probably because a high number of UK blacks are immigrants. Immigrants score lower because of language and cultural differences.

[Napoleon Ier]

So how do you explain the fact that negroes have an IQ (which are 80% genetically determined) 14 points lower on average than Caucasians (genuine question, I'm not racist, but when friends say that to me, I genuinely can't answer)?

3 reasons:

1. Blacks have historically not been afforded the same educational opportunities as whites and therefore historically scored lower on IQ tests as adults.

2. IQ tests are notorious for racial/cultural bias. A classic example was the old "what goes with a cup?". Years ago, white kids would typically say "saucer". Black kids would often say "spoon". Why? Because, at that time, blacks tended to come from poorer families that tended to not use cups and saucers. Truthfully, I am not sure how my son would answer. I use mugs now. Tests have changed, but economics is still a huge predictor of results. Poor whites generally score lower than rich whites because poorer whites also don't have the same opportunities.

3. Within the US, now, this is just plain wrong. When you factor in socio-economic factors (region of the country, parental education, etc.), you find that blacks score the same or higher than whites. If it is not true within the UK, I would suggest that it is probably because a high number of UK blacks are immigrants. Immigrants score lower because of language and cultural differences.

DISCLAIMER: Napoleon Ier does not claim to hold the views expressed in this article and is merely attempting to present a serious matter for intellectual debate.

"Race differences show up by 3 years of age, even after matching on maternal education and other variables," said Rushton. "Therefore they cannot be due to poor education since this has not yet begun to exert an effect. That's why Jensen and I looked at the genetic hypothesis in detail. We examined 10 categories of evidence."

1.

The Worldwide Pattern of IQ Scores. East Asians average higher on IQ tests than Whites, both in the U. S. and in Asia, even though IQ tests were developed for use in the Euro-American culture. Around the world, the average IQ for East Asians centers around 106; for Whites, about 100; and for Blacks about 85 in the U.S. and 70 in sub-Saharan Africa.
2.

Race Differences are Most Pronounced on Tests that Best Measure the General Intelligence Factor (g). Black-White differences, for example, are larger on the Backward Digit Span test than on the less g loaded Forward Digit Span test.
3.

The Gene-Environment Architecture of IQ is the Same in all Races, and Race Differences are Most Pronounced on More Heritable Abilities. Studies of Black, White, and East Asian twins, for example, show the heritability of IQ is 50% or higher in all races.
4.

Brain Size Differences. Studies using magnetic resonance imaging (MRI) find a correlation of brain size with IQ of about 0.40. Larger brains contain more neurons and synapses and process information faster. Race differences in brain size are present at birth. By adulthood, East Asians average 1 cubic inch more cranial capacity than Whites who average 5 cubic inches more than Blacks.
5.

Trans-Racial Adoption Studies. Race differences in IQ remain following adoption by White middle class parents. East Asians grow to average higher IQs than Whites while Blacks score lower. The Minnesota Trans-Racial Adoption Study followed children to age 17 and found race differences were even greater than at age 7: White children, 106; Mixed-Race children, 99; and Black children, 89.
6.

Racial Admixture Studies. Black children with lighter skin, for example, average higher IQ scores. In South Africa, the IQ of the mixed-race "Colored" population averages 85, intermediate to the African 70 and White 100.
7.

IQ Scores of Blacks and Whites Regress toward the Averages of Their Race. Parents pass on only some exceptional genes to offspring so parents with very high IQs tend to have more average children. Black and White children with parents of IQ 115 move to different averages--Blacks toward 85 and Whites to 100.
8.

Race Differences in Other "Life-History" Traits. East Asians and Blacks consistently fall at two ends of a continuum with Whites intermediate on 60 measures of maturation, personality, reproduction, and social organization. For example, Black children sit, crawl, walk, and put on their clothes earlier than Whites or East Asians.
9.

Race Differences and the Out-of-Africa theory of Human Origins. East Asian-White-Black differences fit the theory that modern humans arose in Africa about 100,000 years ago and expanded northward. During prolonged winters there was evolutionary selection for higher IQ created by problems of raising children, gathering and storing food, gaining shelter, and making clothes.
10.

Do Culture-Only Theories Explain the Data? Culture-only theories do not explain the highly consistent pattern of race differences in IQ, especially the East Asian data. No interventions such as ending segregation, introducing school busing, or "Head Start" programs have reduced the gaps as culture-only theory would predict.

In their article, Rushton and Jensen also address some of the policy issues that stem from their conclusions. Their main recommendation is that people be treated as individuals, not as members of groups. They emphasized that their paper pertains only to average differences. They also called for the need to accurately inform the public about the true nature of individual and group differences, genetics and evolutionary biology.

Rushton and Jensen are well-known for research on racial differences in intelligence. Jensen hypothesized a genetic basis for Black-White IQ differences in his 1969 Harvard Educational Review article. His later books Bias in Mental Tests (1980) and The g Factor (1998), as well as Rushton's (1995) Race, Evolution, and Behavior, show that tests are not biased against English speaking minorities and that Black-White-East Asian differences in brain size and IQ belong in an evolutionary framework.

www.charlesdarwinresearch.org

Again, I don't agree with it, but there is evidence out there, and I want to see what you guys make of it. What you're all saying looks to me like a load of shoddily put-together excuses which you proclaim as gospel truth despite not knowing whether or not any serious anthropological research backs your views.

[jiminski]

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org

Again, I don't agree with it, but there is evidence out there, and I want to see what you guys make of it. What you're all saying looks to me like a load of shoddily put-together excuses which you proclaim as gospel truth despite not knowing whether or not any serious anthropological research backs your views.

And what you are doing is protesting innocence for something you were not even accused of (hmm wonder why) when the argument i put forward perfectly explains this anomaly and the spoon-fed evidence you offer ...

[suggs]

What a depressing thread.
Glad we are living in the nineteenth century.

[Napoleon Ier]

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org

Again, I don't agree with it, but there is evidence out there, and I want to see what you guys make of it. What you're all saying looks to me like a load of shoddily put-together excuses which you proclaim as gospel truth despite not knowing whether or not any serious anthropological research backs your views.

And what you are doing is protesting innocence for something you were not even accused of ... hmm wonder why!

Can you blame me for being paranoid? Norse got banned for it, I do need to make it clear that I don't agree with racists, I only think they have a valid case to present. But what's that....despite this, someone's still managed to accuse me of the unnameabale 'it'!

[jiminski]

What a depressing thread.
Glad we are living in the nineteenth century.

get your bonnet and shawl on Suggsy! you've pulled!

[jiminski]

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org

Again, I don't agree with it, but there is evidence out there, and I want to see what you guys make of it. What you're all saying looks to me like a load of shoddily put-together excuses which you proclaim as gospel truth despite not knowing whether or not any serious anthropological research backs your views.

And what you are doing is protesting innocence for something you were not even accused of ... hmm wonder why!

Can you blame me for being paranoid? Norse got banned for it, I do need to make it clear that I don't agree with racists, I only think they have a valid case to present. But what's that....despite this, someone's still managed to accuse me of the unnameabale 'it'!

no that's ridiculous Nappy don't hide behind that! I have argued equally contentious issues and in a reasonable manner. have a look at my post here on a very similar subject
Norsey got banned for something quite different and you know that.

[Napoleon Ier]

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org

Again, I don't agree with it, but there is evidence out there, and I want to see what you guys make of it. What you're all saying looks to me like a load of shoddily put-together excuses which you proclaim as gospel truth despite not knowing whether or not any serious anthropological research backs your views.

And what you are doing is protesting innocence for something you were not even accused of ... hmm wonder why!

Can you blame me for being paranoid? Norse got banned for it, I do need to make it clear that I don't agree with racists, I only think they have a valid case to present. But what's that....despite this, someone's still managed to accuse me of the unnameabale 'it'!

no that's ridiculous Nappy don't hide behind that! I have argued equally contentious issues and in a reasonable manner. Norsey got banned for something quite different and you know that.

No, he got banned for arguing that greater evolutionnary pressures in Northern Europe caused whites to develop into a more intelligent race.

[jiminski]

http://www.charlesdarwinresearch.org

Again, I don't agree with it, but there is evidence out there, and I want to see what you guys make of it. What you're all saying looks to me like a load of shoddily put-together excuses which you proclaim as gospel truth despite not knowing whether or not any serious anthropological research backs your views.

And what you are doing is protesting innocence for something you were not even accused of ... hmm wonder why!

Can you blame me for being paranoid? Norse got banned for it, I do need to make it clear that I don't agree with racists, I only think they have a valid case to present. But what's that....despite this, someone's still managed to accuse me of the unnameabale 'it'!

no that's ridiculous Nappy don't hide behind that! I have argued equally contentious issues and in a reasonable manner. Norsey got banned for something quite different and you know that.

No, he got banned for arguing that greater evolutionnary pressures in Northern Europe caused whites to develop into a more intelligent race.

have a look at my post here on a very similar subject
Crap! I love Norsey and wish he were still here but that is just bloody stupid Nappy and you do yourself a disservice to argue it!

Look at my link above incidentally i would say it is equally contentious but handled more 'carefully'

[suggs]

Lets talk about the fact that the beginning of civilization began in Iraq?/Middle East/North west india.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

The defence rests, and the white man, well, he just moved north from those winners - only he weren't white when he started human civilization.
Relatively basic point i hope, and basic anthropology Nap.

[sam_levi_11]

Lets talk about the fact that the beginning of civilization began in Iraq?/Middle East/North west india.

Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

The defence rests, and the white man, well, he just moved north from those winners - only he weren't white when he started human civilization.
Relatively basic point i hope, and basic anthropology Nap.

why dont more people realise this?

[Snorri1234]

part of me finds racism hilarious. because it's such a sign of stupidity, of limited mind. that since we can't laugh at retards (even though they are goofy, and it might be wrong to laugh about them) we can laugh at people so retarded as to believe that another race is inferior, or unequal in anything except pigment.

So how do you explain the fact that negroes have an IQ (which are 80% genetically determined) 14 points lower on average than Caucasians (genuine question, I'm not racist, but when friends say that to me, I genuinely can't answer)?

If IQ really was a good method of rating intelligence then that might be a good point. IQ-tests are way too specific to reflect "smart".