flat earth vs ""'science'""

[heavycola]

Not at all, of course i don't think christians believe in a flat earth! I know most of you are not that enlightened J/K
I was just pointing out that the flat earth hypothesis has some support from whoever wrote the bible.

Ok if you're just joking around then that's fine. But if you honestly believe that the flat earth hypothesis was widely accepted by the Catholic church or other sects of Christianity then you are mistaken. As you probably already know, the Bible is a compilation of books written by different people. None of them believed in a flat earth.

beezer i was just stirring. Everyone thought the earth was flat at one point. I'm not religious but i have more respect for religious viewpoints than that. Also, i like having pointless arguments on teh internets.

[Guiscard]

Everyone thought the earth was flat at one point.

And again, no.

[beezer]

beezer i was just stirring. Everyone thought the earth was flat at one point. I'm not religious but i have more respect for religious viewpoints than that. Also, i like having pointless arguments on teh internets.

I know a guy in the union that likes to do that. Could I borrow your skills & get some revenge on him?

[heavycola]

Everyone thought the earth was flat at one point.

And again, no.

yes you did guiscard. Stop fronting.

[beezer]

Ok if you're just joking around then that's fine. But if you honestly believe that the flat earth hypothesis was widely accepted by the Catholic church or other sects of Christianity then you are mistaken. As you probably already know, the Bible is a compilation of books written by different people. None of them believed in a flat earth.

Wrong. Read my last post.

OK, which ones believed in a flat earth?

My understanding is that the words used in the Old Testament could, I repeat could, be interpreted that way. However, that is probably because of a skeptical bias.

My biased source

[beezer]

Edit:

My computer's been messing up sorry.

[The Weird One]

beezer i was just stirring. Everyone thought the earth was flat at one point. I'm not religious but i have more respect for religious viewpoints than that. Also, i like having pointless arguments on teh internets.

I know a guy in the union that likes to do that. Could I borrow your skills & get some revenge on him?

pointless arguments iz fun

[ksslemp]

You guys are all homos!!! Everyone knows that the earth is a trapezoid!

or at least thats what the people at the Trapezoid-Earth society told me.

[orion_]

You mean the earth is not a cube?

[Natali]

If we eliminate evidence from the 20th century it would be totally plausibile to imagine Earth as a doughnut. Magellan's voyage only proved that the Earth is not flat, since he didn't fell from it. Sun is our owen, but who controls the owen

[Guiscard]

Ok if you're just joking around then that's fine. But if you honestly believe that the flat earth hypothesis was widely accepted by the Catholic church or other sects of Christianity then you are mistaken. As you probably already know, the Bible is a compilation of books written by different people. None of them believed in a flat earth.

Wrong. Read my last post.

OK, which ones believed in a flat earth?

My understanding is that the words used in the Old Testament could, I repeat could, be interpreted that way. However, that is probably because of a skeptical bias.

My biased source

Read my long(ish) post again. We know a lot about Hebrew cosmology from various sources and everything in the Bible points to that as the world view that genesis describes.

It could definitiely be 'implied' as metaphorical, but there is no foundation for that claim if we follow any reasonable line of argument.

i.e.

1) The Old Testement is a collection of Hebrew religious texts.

2) The Hebrew world view has much in common with other near eastern religions e.g. Egyptian, Assyrian, Sumerian all of which describe a similar cosmology. This was a view common throughout ancient religions, despite arguments for a spherical world from what we would cal proto-scientific quarters. Why should talk of pillars, corners, vaults and firmament be purely metaphorical when talking about the Old Testement, but not elsewhere? Why should the writers of Genesis have viewed the universe any differently to their non-Judaic contemporaries?

3) The references in the Bible sometimes used to indicate a spherical earth (primarily Is. 40:22; Job 22:14; Prov. 8:27) use the Hebrew world 'Hug' which in no sense means spherical. There is a separate word for that. It implies a dome or vault over the earth. A solid heaven as a dome over a flat earth. Every mention of a spherical earth relies on metaphor, yet the same Christians who make the argument for a spherical often point to the account of creation as accurate fact. Why should we even consider metaphor an option in this case if not in others?

In answer to your question proper, ALL of them believed in a flat earth as I've previously described. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest they were any different from any of the other Hebrews, Sumarians, Egyptians, Assyrians and even Hindus who held that concept of the cosmos to be true . This isn't bias. I'm not out to attack Christianity, just to support historical method. You simply cannot argue that anything else was the case in terms of the old testament, which poses serious problems for people like Jay when trying to reconcile beliefs with reality.

[mandalorian2298]

There is always a choice. As Musashi said: "You can abandon your body, but you must perserve your honor." At every moment of every day we are responsible for both our choices and the consequences of those choices.

He was 14.

It was compulsory.

People who opposed it were executed.

...by people who didn't oppose it, because they were scared for their life. My point exactly.

[Guiscard]

There is always a choice. As Musashi said: "You can abandon your body, but you must perserve your honor." At every moment of every day we are responsible for both our choices and the consequences of those choices.

He was 14.

It was compulsory.

People who opposed it were executed.

...by people who didn't oppose it, because they were scared for their life. My point exactly.

What we're saying is that it doesn't make him a Nazi. It does not by any stretch of the imagination mean that he participated believing in those values. He may not even have participated willingly. When you are fourteen you do what your parents tell you, especially in the time and context of Nazi Germany. Imagine seeing people who refuse to join the group executed. What would your parents, let alone you do?

You can't make a value judgment on someone in that environment at the age of 14 armed only with membership.

[Natali]

OK, which ones believed in a flat earth?

Aristotle and Pythagoras proved that the Earth is a globe. Hebrews, Egyptians and Christianity belived that the Earth is flat.

[The1exile]

There is always a choice. As Musashi said: "You can abandon your body, but you must perserve your honor." At every moment of every day we are responsible for both our choices and the consequences of those choices.

I hold honour in high regard, but not over my life.

[Natali]

You must check this out! It's ridiculus. http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublons ... ociety.htm
This is the official site of the Flat Earth Society. They argue that the Moon is round and because of it barren. Every single drop of water has fallen of from it. If the Earth is round water would just fall off. That is just a small part of their "convincing" theory.

[Snorri1234]

You must check this out! It's ridiculus. http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublons ... ociety.htm
This is the official site of the Flat Earth Society. They argue that the Moon is round and because of it barren. Every single drop of water has fallen of from it. If the Earth is round water would just fall off. That is just a small part of their "convincing" theory.

I like the part of the site that is dedicated to fighting the evidence, disspelling the common myth of "proof" for a round earth.

<This page is currently under construction. Please come back when we have our act together.>

[Stopper]

Flat Earth Society, Current Events:

Although the steps we've taken may seem a little drastic to the outside observer, we feel that, in the end, the net gain will justify the means. Here are a few of our victories. . .

After spending over sixteen million dollars and using over 48 thousand yards of industrial strength strapping tape, we of the Flat Earth Society were able to construct an enormously powerful neurotransmitter that can implant suggestions directly into the brains of the nearby non-Flat Earthers. Having set it up just outside of the Russian Antarctic exploration post (Vostok), we are awaiting word that all three scientists and 174 penguins have been shown the light.

Three loyal Flat Earth Society members, during a camping trip to the small African nation of Tunisia, came across a privately-owned 59 minute photo stand in the isolated northernmost corner of the desert country. Employing guerilla warfare techniques learned under Mao Zedong in the early 1920's, they were able to effortlessly seize control of the stand and are now using it to distribute pro-Flat Earth propaganda throughout the West African region.

Damn those bastards! Targeting Africa with their propaganda like that, knowing how vulnerable it is!

[mandalorian2298]

There is always a choice. As Musashi said: "You can abandon your body, but you must perserve your honor." At every moment of every day we are responsible for both our choices and the consequences of those choices.

I hold honour in high regard, but not over my life.

What about "the last inch" (if you have read the "V for Vendetta" comic, if you menaged to get your hands on it )? Survival of the body means very little IMO if you grow to despise the person whom you became or if you spend your life finding excuses for your actions. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that once you make a wrong choice the rest of your life should be spent in shame and lamentation (both of which I found to be useless). I am saying that a person should accept responsibility for all of his/her actions. It is a simple matter of facing the reality without having to blur it with apologees, excuses etc. It is a hard thing to do but, in my expirience, the alternative is unberable.

[mr. incrediball]

... these people have never held a ruler up to the horizon have they?

[beezer]

OK, which ones believed in a flat earth?

Aristotle and Pythagoras proved that the Earth is a globe. Hebrews, Egyptians and Christianity belived that the Earth is flat.

Even Guiscard & I agree that that's not true. Maybe you're joking. I can't tell on the internet.

[beezer]

In answer to your question proper, ALL of them believed in a flat earth as I've previously described. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest they were any different from any of the other Hebrews, Sumarians, Egyptians, Assyrians and even Hindus who held that concept of the cosmos to be true . This isn't bias. I'm not out to attack Christianity, just to support historical method. You simply cannot argue that anything else was the case in terms of the old testament, which poses serious problems for people like Jay when trying to reconcile beliefs with reality.

You've been pretty fair on this one, Guiscard. According to the link I posted it shows what the definitions of the Hebrew words are. The author showed that those terms could be interpreted either way.

[Guiscard]

In answer to your question proper, ALL of them believed in a flat earth as I've previously described. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest they were any different from any of the other Hebrews, Sumarians, Egyptians, Assyrians and even Hindus who held that concept of the cosmos to be true . This isn't bias. I'm not out to attack Christianity, just to support historical method. You simply cannot argue that anything else was the case in terms of the old testament, which poses serious problems for people like Jay when trying to reconcile beliefs with reality.

You've been pretty fair on this one, Guiscard. According to the link I posted it shows what the definitions of the Hebrew words are. The author showed that those terms could be interpreted either way.

You're link is certainly interesting. The information I've read, and discussions I've had with colleagues, indicated there was a separate word for sphere. This source says there isn't, and that the word for circle could equally be used for sphere.

HOWEVER, that is by the by really. We KNOW from many sources what the near-eastern view of cosmology was outside of the bible. What is more likely?

The biblical account agreeing with this using direct language (circle as in flat, pillars etc.) and no metaphor.

OR

The biblical account describing the entirely new concept of spherical earth, an idea never mentioned before in that region and by those peoples and an idea not mentioned until centuries later when greek influence began to spread. Furthermore, a concept described using vague metaphor rather than distinct words which could not be defined in any other way. Thou shalt not kill is, in Hebrew, perfectly definable. No argument. Descriptions of the world are not.

There is no reason to interpret it in the way you want. Whatsoever.