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How big is the quantum realm?

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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby jusplay4fun on Wed May 10, 2023 10:40 pm

Maxleod wrote:Question:

c (the speed of light in vacuum) is a physical constant, and nothing can go faster.

Now let's say a spaceship travelling in space at a high speed turns its lights on (like a car on the road), wouldn't the speed of the light coming from the spaceship's lights be higher than c?

Please explain JP.


Space and time change to keep c (the speed of light) a constant. This is one of the two postulates in the Theory of Special Relativity.

Newton, and many others, assumed that time and the spatial dimensions (LWH) did not change.

If you want more information, read up on:

Special Relativity
Lorentz Transformation
Michelson-Morley experiments (and the search for aether)

If I bother to look up some of this and post a quote, some want to criticize my simple attempt to offer more information in an attempt of edification for those who want to learn and want to simply know more. So I merely offer some relevant topics to allow you to pursue this on your own.

Let me know if you have more questions about this or science.

Regarding this part that you mentioned:
Now let's say a spaceship travelling in space at a high speed turns its lights on (like a car on the road), wouldn't the speed of the light coming from the spaceship's lights be higher than c?


This seems to agree with common sense and is the Galilean (as opposed to Lorentz) transformation. Relativistic Physics says that this does not happen and their have been many experiments that support the validity of Einstein's Theories of Relativity (both Special and General).

For the first famous confirmation, read about the astronomer Arthur Eddington and his observations in May 1919. I will quote this:

1919: During a total solar eclipse, Sir Arthur Eddington performs the first experimental test of Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity. The findings made Einstein a celebrity overnight, and precipitated the eventual triumph of general relativity over classical Newtonian physics.

https://www.wired.com/2009/05/dayintech-0529/#:~:text=1919%3A%20During%20a%20total%20solar,relativity%20over%20classical%20Newtonian%20physics.
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby DoomYoshi on Thu May 11, 2023 1:27 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:
DoomYoshi wrote:I'd take as proof an experiment with a p-value of 0.003, which is pretty standard for physicists.

Or you could even just bring a link which proves your own stated claims above. You said "we do know why there is static charge". Could you back that up?

Uncertainty principle doesn't apply here. If it does, perhaps you can

https://www.loc.gov/everyday-mysteries/physics/item/how-does-static-electricity-work/



The first link doesn't really explain the effect, just that it exists.the second explicitly says that the process is not understood. "This process is not fully understood,"

Let me break this down for you in a simpler way. There is an observed effect (negative charge transfer through rubbing). The comic I posted claimed that the effect is not understood. Your only explanations have been that the effect is observed.

In other words, let's talk about gravity. People observe that things fall. The answer you are giving is "that's the way it is". The answer in looking for is "there is a gravitational force".

Really, all you've done is explain the "what" with greater clarity. You didn't address the "why". It's like if saxi says " why is dy's member so girthy?" And you answered "it is 13 inches". You aren't answering the question, just giving precision to the already observed effect.
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby jusplay4fun on Fri May 12, 2023 2:15 pm

If one drills down deep enough into ANY topic, there will come a point where the answer is:

1) we do not REALLY know (beyond the explanation(s) given);

2) we do not therefore know the REAL answer.

For example, what began the Big Bang?

If static electricity cannot be explained "deeper" than a transfer of electrons, then I cannot provide it. Every Physics textbook I have read gives that explanation. I will challenge someone else to offer you what you perceive as a better answer. For me, that answer is sufficient and rather complete. If you do not accept that, or you do not like it, then do you own research.

And as far as gravity, Relativity explains it NOT merely as things falling, but as a curvature of space. So we do have some "deeper" explanations than you allude to.

And, one last point for now, you seem to confuse length with circumference (girth).
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby Maxleod on Fri May 12, 2023 5:40 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:And, one last point for now, you seem to confuse length with circumference (girth).


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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby jusplay4fun on Sat May 13, 2023 12:47 am

Maxleod wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:And, one last point for now, you seem to confuse length with circumference (girth).




You focus on minutia and the silliness.
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby Dukasaur on Sat May 13, 2023 7:20 am

jusplay4fun wrote:
Maxleod wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:And, one last point for now, you seem to confuse length with circumference (girth).




You focus on minutia and the silliness.


Focus on the minutes and the hours will take care of themselves.
“‎Life is a shipwreck, but we must not forget to sing in the lifeboats.”
― Voltaire
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby DoomYoshi on Sun May 14, 2023 7:56 am

Jp, that's not an acceptable answer.

Claim: physicists cant explain where the static charge comes from when you rub your head with a balloon.

Your initial answer: it comes from static charge.

My followup answer: a paper which explains that this is still an area of great mystery in modern physics (2022).

Your followup: quoting an article which proves the initial claim that it is still an area of great mystery in modern physics.

Your current response: static charges come from static charge and until somebody gives a better answer, I am going to claim that it is not an area of mystery in modern physics.

I didn't mistake width and girth. If you read the example again, you will see that it was jp offering length as the causality of girth.
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby jusplay4fun on Sun May 14, 2023 1:19 pm

DoomYoshi wrote:Jp, that's not an acceptable answer.

Claim: physicists cant explain where the static charge comes from when you rub your head with a balloon.


If you read the article I provided, it gave the answer that I ASSUMED (perhaps incorrectly) that you know: it has do with rubbing electrons off from one body to the other, an electrical imbalance:

The rubbing of certain materials against one another can transfer negative charges, or electrons. For example, if you rub your shoe on the carpet, your body collects extra electrons. The electrons cling to your body until they can be released. As you reach and touch your furry friend, you get a shock. Don’t worry, it is only the surplus electrons being released from you to your unsuspecting pet.


DoomYoshi wrote:Your initial answer: it comes from static charge.

My followup answer: a paper which explains that this is still an area of great mystery in modern physics (2022).

Your followup: quoting an article which proves the initial claim that it is still an area of great mystery in modern physics.

Your current response: static charges come from static charge and until somebody gives a better answer, I am going to claim that it is not an area of mystery in modern physics.

I didn't mistake width and girth. If you read the example again, you will see that it was jp offering length as the causality of girth.


And girth does not equal length; that may be true IN SOME cases BUT NOT all. And there was no implication that you were using Causality. In fact, I was the one who first even mention the notion in this thread. Not all long cylinders have the greatest length. So much for your causality argument.

As I already said, if one drills down deep enough, one can say there is NO TRUE or REAL explanation for most things. If you do like the ones I provide, so be it. I provide the answers that I know; I am not world's expert on this matter, so perhaps you want to discuss such topics with those who are.

We are going around in circles here, so I see no need to continue this unless you have something new to offer here, DY.

I think I will await a response or comment from Max; otherwise, I see no need to respond further.
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby Maxleod on Sun May 14, 2023 3:07 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:I think I will await a response or comment from Max; otherwise, I see no need to respond further.


OK. First thank you for your answers
@Yoshi: it was always clear even to me that Physics does not prove things (that's Mathematics), nor give a reason, it merely describes reality. In a surprisingly accurate way. Even if it's all conjectures.

If light is a wave, how does it travel/propagate through the vacuum of Space?
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby DoomYoshi on Sun May 14, 2023 6:08 pm

That isn't an answer. If the question was "define the static charge...", it would be an answer.

Here's my problem, reformulated since you can't seem to understand my issue.

I posted a comic, written by a physicist. He worked robotics for NASA where one of the main problems is about grounding machines in space. The triboelectroc effect can store up to (at least) 20000 volts inside a human, so it could cause some major damage. He is actually an expert in the field.

From there, I quoted from papers of other people who are experts in the field.

JP comes along and says "no, the experts are wrong and physicists actually can explain it". But then he doesn't offer any explanation yet somehow claims not to be an expert. So which is it jp? Are you an expert in the field or are you not? If you are not, how can you claim you know what the experts in the field know?
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby jimboston on Mon May 15, 2023 8:25 am

DoomYoshi wrote:So which is it jp? Are you an expert in the field or are you not? If you are not, how can you claim you know what the experts in the field know?


He’s both an expert and not an expert simultaneously.

He’s kinda non-binary like that…. he’s on the expert spectrum.
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby DoomYoshi on Mon May 15, 2023 2:49 pm

Schroedingers expert. How very topical.
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Re: How big is the quantum realm?

Postby jusplay4fun on Fri May 19, 2023 6:45 am

Maxleod wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:I think I will await a response or comment from Max; otherwise, I see no need to respond further.


OK. First thank you for your answers
@Yoshi: it was always clear even to me that Physics does not prove things (that's Mathematics), nor give a reason, it merely describes reality. In a surprisingly accurate way. Even if it's all conjectures.

If light is a wave, how does it travel/propagate through the vacuum of Space?


I think you assume all waves behave the same. That is not so.

Light (and all electromagnetic radiation, which includes visible light) do not need a physical medium, such as air, to vibrate against. Sound causes the physical medium it travels through to vibrate. (To be more clear, the particles that compose the medium, often atoms or molecules, are what move back and forth.)

Sound waves are described as pressure waves.

Electromagnetic waves are oscillations of both the magnetic and electric fields mutually perpendicular and perpendicular to the direction of propagation or motion. (This explains the name, electromagnetic or E-M.) They do not need a medium to travel through, unlike sound waves or water waves. Thus light, an E-M wave, can travel through the vacuum of space.
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