HAPPY THANKSGIVING

[NomadPatriot]

Oh, I get it. The best defense is a good attack.

Since your myth is full of holes big enough to drive a Peterbilt through, you're not even going to try to defend it, and instead just attack anyone who says otherwise, and nitpick about trivial flaws there may be in what they say.

hmmmm..

Ducky copy & pasted a 3 page attack on the American Thanksgiving tradition.. nitpicking over trivial flaws about what was said, attacking people for saying otherwise.

then later says this -->

It didn't require denial. It's obviously not true

SAxi doesn't need to defend it.. it's obviously not true.. remember..

--> ducky .. the hypocrite.

oh .. almost forgot:
Greed: a selfish and excessive desire for more of something than is needed, especially wealth, power, or food.

greed is not specific to only wanting what other people have..

your Myth of Canadian Happiness & not being Greedy is about as convincing as your leader claiming he is progressive.

[betiko]

As a native american, I'm quite offended to see you guys commemorate each year how a bunch of immigrants came to our land to bring desease, alcohol and firearms and slaughter our ancestors. Not to mention the amount of turkey slaughtered each year on this day for your paan rituals.

[2dimes]

Busted. While they might respect the spirit of the critter no First Nations people are upset about eating turkeys.

[NomadPatriot]

As a native american, I'm quite offended to see you guys commemorate each year how a bunch of immigrants came to our land to bring desease, alcohol and firearms and slaughter our ancestors. Not to mention the amount of turkey slaughtered each year on this day for your paan rituals.

when you say "Native American".. you mean Mongolian Immigrant..

because your people are from Mongolia.. they walked across the Bering Strait..

you are not from the Americas.... nor are your peoples

it's was any immigrants land who got here & planted their flag & defended it.. and the only thing that saved the Mongolian immigrants was those firearms your complaining about.. once they learned to use guns.. it was a fair fight.. and a truce was established

so.. your welcome

…. but glad to know in 'pre-white man America' the Mongolian Immigrants never killed each other.. there was not one instance of disease .. ever.. , & they preferred tobacco & Peyote over Alcohol...

it was pure Harmony in the land...

oh wait.. you mentioned something about rituals..

-->

[KoolBak]

*insert dialog here*

[2dimes]

you took the last piece of white meat!

[tzor]

when you say "Native American".. you mean Mongolian Immigrant..

Whatever, we're all from Africa eventually.

[saxitoxin]

As a native american, I'm quite offended to see you guys commemorate each year how a bunch of immigrants came to our land to bring desease, alcohol and firearms and slaughter our ancestors. Not to mention the amount of turkey slaughtered each year on this day for your paan rituals.

Busted. No Indian is offended by the hooch.

[betiko]

As a native american, I'm quite offended to see you guys commemorate each year how a bunch of immigrants came to our land to bring desease, alcohol and firearms and slaughter our ancestors. Not to mention the amount of turkey slaughtered each year on this day for your paan rituals.

Busted. No Indian is offended by the hooch.

I am because you white immigrant invaders disconnected my people from their sacred spirit making them alcohol dependent and leaving us in concentration camps, trying to look good with all the casino concessions.

[jimboston]

As a native american, I'm quite offended to see you guys commemorate each year how a bunch of immigrants came to our land to bring desease, alcohol and firearms and slaughter our ancestors. Not to mention the amount of turkey slaughtered each year on this day for your paan rituals.

Europeans as a people committed genocide on Native Americans as a people, no doubt. This was spread out over some 400 years (+/-), some of it was intentional and some unintentional... but statistics here can only be scrubbed/faked so much. Let’s just call it the genocide it was.

That said...

1) Native American tribes/peoples were not all peace loving tree huggers. They fought and killed and raped and enslaved their rivals just like Europeans and like all other people that have ever lived. The only reason the Europeans were able to dominate was because they had Guns, Germs, and Steel on their side... these things were all lopsided to benefit the Europeans. (...and by Guns I generally mean technology.)

2) Most people believe in the principle of the “Son not being guilty of the Father’s Crimes”... if you don’t believe in that principle fine... but we are all guilty in that case. If you do believe in that principle then you have to get over it.

3) You can continue to look at Thanksgiving as commemoration of Native American Genocide. Or you can look at it the way MOST Americans look at it... as a day to spend with family/friends and be thankful (to a God or not) for the good things in your life... and maybe acknowledging the way you have been lucky will encourage you to give back to those less lucky.

If you want to believe Thanksgiving is a commemoration of genocide it’s fine... you’re entitled to believe what you want... but know that there are people that can complain or warp just about any holiday. For example, some can complain Christmas is bad because it supports consumerism and waste, or it acknowledges a Church that has committed genocide against many different groups of people through the ages... etc.

4) The continued political and social separation that is perpetuated on those with Native American ancestry by their supposed leaders and the US Gov’t... i.e. the continued existence of the Reservation System or First Nations political identities... this system only harms the vast majority of human beings who live under it and support its’ existence. It creates a “2nd Class” status for Native Americans that is supported and recognized by law. It has both psychological and physical effects on Native people’s.

People of Native American descent would generally be better served in the long run... and for their children... if this system ended. I’m not saying abandon your heritage... but the 2nd Class status combined with bad education, poor economic opportunities, and a mental weight pushed on these people by the system and their ‘leaders’... it’s a bad mix.

Anyway, those are my thoughts... you can agree or disagree... you probably have more knowledge than i about some aspects but statistically I’m sure that I’m right and though the. system may benefit some it’s only the leaders and only window dressing.

[D3A7H]

I agree with JM.

[Dukasaur]

Oh, I get it. The best defense is a good attack.

You've got this unsustainable myth where relations between the Puritans and the Indians were all Warm Fuzzies with Peaches on Top.

Since your myth is full of holes big enough to drive a Peterbilt through, you're not even going to try to defend it, and instead just attack anyone who says otherwise, and nitpick about trivial flaws there may be in what they say.

By all means, carry on.

It seems to me your myth of the noble, peaceful savage is unsustainable.

Umm, are you on glue? When have I ever advocated such a myth? I'm perfectly well aware that primitive societies are just as capable of violence as advanced ones, and have never said otherwise.

[HitRed]

Great memories building plastic models. I built P-47 Thunderbolt and used the metallic paints. Gunmetal was super cool on the guns.

[riskllama]

I agree with JM.

who the f*ck is JM?

[2dimes]

I agree with JM.

who the f*ck is JM?

Famous meat guy. Started Shnieder's.

[Dukasaur]

Oh, I get it. The best defense is a good attack.

You've got this unsustainable myth where relations between the Puritans and the Indians were all Warm Fuzzies with Peaches on Top.

Since your myth is full of holes big enough to drive a Peterbilt through, you're not even going to try to defend it, and instead just attack anyone who says otherwise, and nitpick about trivial flaws there may be in what they say.

By all means, carry on.

The myth is unimportant to me.

If the myth is unimportant to you, it seems odd that you jump in to attack someone who's attacking the myth.

Its validity has no ultimate meaning, all things being equal. What i do care about is hypocrisy dressed as enlightened woke culture. The intern who penned the article laments 'historical inaccuracies' and portrays native culture as the good guys. That's pretty historically inaccurate right there. Additionally, any article unironically deconstructing a minor child's tale to get white Americans to reflect on their privilege deserves to be called out for the prejudiced hypocrisy it is.

I'm not seeing any good guy/bad guy narrative here. Just like any history, it's essentially a choice of different flavours of bad guy -- but that's my personal attitude, not necessarily that of the interviewee. All the interviewee is doing, on a balanced reading, is saying that not only is the myth hokum, but it isn't harmless hokum. The myth is enshrining all kinds of false assumptions that interfere with any true understanding of the history.

This whole good guy / bad guy dichotomy is something you're reading into it that just isn't there.

I mean, the whole article can't even remain consistent within its argument. On the one hand, natives didn't consider themselves one people (rightfully so), and so conflicts between the different native peoples are what? Normal? Par for the course? Okay? Yet on the other hand when the white people come in and have conflict, it's bad now? But aren't they just functionally another tribe since the natives don't consider themselves one people?

What "argument" is it not staying consistent with? The imaginary good guy/bad guy thing that you've superimposed on it?

All it's saying is that the myth is something created so privileged white elites can slap each other on the back and tell each other how wonderful they are. It's not saying the alternative to the myth should be that the Indians should slap each other on the back and say the same. It presents a pretty balanced and fair view of what the history actually was. All this nonsense about being "woke" or whatever is something you've assumed. You're putting those assumptions in. And then you noticed it's more balanced than you originally assumed it would be and you're calling that an inconsistency.

It's like you're reading Calvin & Hobbes and getting all pissed off that it's bullshit Garfield. And then you notice it's not Garfield, and instead of heaving a sigh of relief you're getting more pissed off about that.

So how is English pilgrims taking land from natives any different or worse than natives taking land and women from each other, which they'd been doing for thousands of years?

Hint: it's not worse, it's the exact same.

No argument there.

[NomadPatriot]

the Native Americans were righteous people.. they would never do such atrocities such as enslaving African Americans..

oh wait..

"According to journalist Aliana E. Roberts, this switch occurred after the Yamasee tribe lost a war against the English Carolina colonists in 1717. The Europeans began turning from Native slavery to African slavery, and the Native Americans followed their lead. Many Natives, especially those in the “Five Civilized Tribes” (so-called because they embraced the ways of American settlers) picked up on the trend. By 1800, they had developed “plantations that rivaled those of their white neighbors.

In 1860…Cherokee Nation citizens owned 2,511 slaves (15 percent of their total population), Choctaw citizens owned 2,349 slaves (14 percent of their total population), and Creek citizens owned 1,532 slaves (10 percent of their total population). Chickasaw citizens owned 975 slaves, which amounted to 18 percent of their total population, a proportion equivalent to that of white slave owners in Tennessee, a former neighbour of the Chickasaw Nation and a large slaveholding state."

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/native-americans-who-owned-slaves

[betiko]

the Native Americans were righteous people.. they would never do such atrocities such as enslaving African Americans..

oh wait..

"According to journalist Aliana E. Roberts, this switch occurred after the Yamasee tribe lost a war against the English Carolina colonists in 1717. The Europeans began turning from Native slavery to African slavery, and the Native Americans followed their lead. Many Natives, especially those in the “Five Civilized Tribes” (so-called because they embraced the ways of American settlers) picked up on the trend. By 1800, they had developed “plantations that rivaled those of their white neighbors.

In 1860…Cherokee Nation citizens owned 2,511 slaves (15 percent of their total population), Choctaw citizens owned 2,349 slaves (14 percent of their total population), and Creek citizens owned 1,532 slaves (10 percent of their total population). Chickasaw citizens owned 975 slaves, which amounted to 18 percent of their total population, a proportion equivalent to that of white slave owners in Tennessee, a former neighbour of the Chickasaw Nation and a large slaveholding state."

https://www.intellectualtakeout.org/article/native-americans-who-owned-slaves

the point is that you europeans made slavery illegal. It could be quite handy to use the black men in casinos for free. We could also start cotton fields like in the good old days.

[riskllama]